100db gain HA's, is this ever going to be possible?

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deafdude1

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Todays best HA's give you a gain of 80db at peak frequency and 60-70db for the frequencies below and above that peak frequency. Could feedback be canceled(or ignored) to the point where a super high gain is possible?

Also those best HA's have a max SPL of 140db at peak frequency and 120-130db for the frequencies below and above that peak frequency. Is the limitation in the HA or is it because it could "blow out the eardrums" as my audie says? I do notice they attach warning lables to high end HAs that are capable of an SPL of 125+ db at peak frequency. Would it be possible to keep the SPL no higher than 130-140db but have the same SPL for all frequencies and not just peak frequency?

Could they start going back to those giant phonic box HAs they used in the 1980s for the most profound cases of hearing loss? Those who don't benefit enough from a bte HA could use a giant box HA as a last resort before considering CIs.

Is there any audiometers that can test HL above 120db? Those who have a "NR" do they really have "infinite" loss or just a loss above 120db, perhaps 125 or 130db? Likewise, could any HA, even a giant box HA be made for those with 120 to 130db HL? I have that degree of loss at the high frequencies.

Is it true most/all HAs amplify very low frequency sounds, even down to 20-30 Hz? Howcome I can hear(not just feel) the lowest note(27Hz?) on a piano much better with HAs? Why don't they test unaided hearing below 125Hz or 250Hz(depending on the audiometer)

When an audiologist programs the HAs, can there ever be an aided score of 0db if your hearing loss is equal or less than the gain the HAs are capable of? Would those with mild to moderate HL be able to be amplified to an aided score of 0db? Also if theres a "NA" at certain frequencies, does the audie program the HA for max gain at that frequency or does he program it for 0 gain since it would be a "waste"

Thanks for reading, your answers will help me and others.
 
deafdude1 said:
Todays best HA's give you a gain of 80db at peak frequency and 60-70db for the frequencies below and above that peak frequency. Could feedback be canceled(or ignored) to the point where a super high gain is possible?

Also those best HA's have a max SPL of 140db at peak frequency and 120-130db for the frequencies below and above that peak frequency. Is the limitation in the HA or is it because it could "blow out the eardrums" as my audie says? I do notice they attach warning lables to high end HAs that are capable of an SPL of 125+ db at peak frequency. Would it be possible to keep the SPL no higher than 130-140db but have the same SPL for all frequencies and not just peak frequency?

Could they start going back to those giant phonic box HAs they used in the 1980s for the most profound cases of hearing loss? Those who don't benefit enough from a bte HA could use a giant box HA as a last resort before considering CIs.

Is there any audiometers that can test HL above 120db? Those who have a "NR" do they really have "infinite" loss or just a loss above 120db, perhaps 125 or 130db? Likewise, could any HA, even a giant box HA be made for those with 120 to 130db HL? I have that degree of loss at the high frequencies.

Is it true most/all HAs amplify very low frequency sounds, even down to 20-30 Hz? Howcome I can hear(not just feel) the lowest note(27Hz?) on a piano much better with HAs? Why don't they test unaided hearing below 125Hz or 250Hz(depending on the audiometer)

When an audiologist programs the HAs, can there ever be an aided score of 0db if your hearing loss is equal or less than the gain the HAs are capable of? Would those with mild to moderate HL be able to be amplified to an aided score of 0db? Also if theres a "NA" at certain frequencies, does the audie program the HA for max gain at that frequency or does he program it for 0 gain since it would be a "waste"

Thanks for reading, your answers will help me and others.
Click to expand...

When programming my HAs the audiologist said it was not worth amplifying the high frequencies because I wouldn't be able to hear them anyway. She said she would concentrate on amplifying the frequencies I needed to gain the best understanding of speech.
 
From what one of my former hearing aid audis explained to me, when a person has profound loss in the high frequencies, it does no good to program hearing aids to amplify them since all this would do is cause distortion. It's much better to amplify the low and middle frequencies that a person can hear instead.

As for someone having NR at 120 dB, I don't think it would make much difference if they increased an audiometer's output to 125 or 130 dB since that's only a difference of 5-10 dB.

Before I received my first CI, I had NR at 1000 Hz and above for both ears. I don't think having an audiometer that was capable of producing tones at 125 or 130 dB would have made a difference.

As far as body worn aids are concerned, I highly doubt anyone would wear them. They're bulky and sometimes produce distortion. Besides, if a person is unable to benefit from standard BTEs, why not opt for a CI instead of wearing a body worn aid that is more cumbersome?
 
As far as body worn aids are concerned, I highly doubt anyone would wear them. They're bulky and sometimes produce distortion. Besides, if a person is unable to benefit from standard BTEs, why not opt for a CI instead of wearing a body worn aid that is more cumbersome
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On the other hand,, I know in Europe body worn aids are still popular.
I think in some cases body worn aids might be appropreate for people who can hear some with BTEs, but who could hear even better with the power of a body worn. Exactly like the way hoh people can hear with dinky aids but can hear best with BTEs.
And yes, body worn aids are bulky but no more then a body worn processor.
 
which is why most CI users choose to use a BTE processor instead. Very, very few CI recipients use BWPs anymore.
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Adults or kids? I know that it's still common for kids to start out with a BWP and then get a BTE. And anyway, they aren't THAT bulky. Like compared to the 60's/70's style, the body worns are pretty much very compact.
 
deafdyke said:
Adults or kids? I know that it's still common for kids to start out with a BWP and then get a BTE. And anyway, they aren't THAT bulky. Like compared to the 60's/70's style, the body worns are pretty much very compact.
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In the eyes of most CI users, BWPs are bulky enough. Hence, the reason why they choose a BTE instead. I know I certainly wouldn't want a cord hanging from my ear, coil or headpiece if it were me. I love the freedom of having a BTE. I had enough cords, etc. to deal with when I used a Comtek FM system with DAI. Thanks, but no thanks. :)
 
Actually, more and more parents are opting to give their children BTEs as opposed to BWPs.
 
By the way, most bodyworn aids aren't repaired here in the U.S. They may be used more often in Europe, but that doesn't help someone who lives in the U.S. and is experiencing problems with their bodyworn aid.
 
I live in the UK and I haven't seen anyone wearing a body worn aid for decades, now it's only hearies who have cords hanging from their ears i.e. MP3, IPods etc.
 
I used to wear a body aids in high school and I hate to deal with cords on both sides of my head. It was a lot of equipment to deal with and a hassle to take off and put back on after gym period. No thanks!
 
djchur said:
I live in the UK and I haven't seen anyone wearing a body worn aid for decades, now it's only hearies who have cords hanging from their ears i.e. MP3, IPods etc.
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Ditto,

When I went to my deaf school they wouldn't let me use BW (phonic ear) as they provide head phones, All kids except CI users wore Head phones this was in the early 90's and that was the last time i saw a kid wearing BW. Now days it's either HA and CI with assitance of Headphones, wireless microphone etc.
 
djchur said:
When programming my HAs the audiologist said it was not worth amplifying the high frequencies because I wouldn't be able to hear them anyway. She said she would concentrate on amplifying the frequencies I needed to gain the best understanding of speech.
Click to expand...

How do I know if my inability to hear above 2000Hz is due to the extent of my HL or the programming? My audiogram shows me hearing up to 4000Hz, yet somehow I don't hear those with hearing aids? I can't hear the last few piano keys! I have played back high pitched sounds on my speakers as well and can't hear them, yet my parents and others can?

Hear Again said:
As for someone having NR at 120 dB, I don't think it would make much difference if they increased an audiometer's output to 125 or 130 dB since that's only a difference of 5-10 dB.
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What if a person is just curious if he does still have residual hearing instead of being told that "NR" at 120db means a total loss? Also could it be useful for tracking the progression of hearing loss? Finally, if a hearing aid has a max SPL of above 120db, wouldn't it make sense to know the extent of a persons HL so the HA can be programmed for 120-130db HL?

Hear Again said:
As far as body worn aids are concerned, I highly doubt anyone would wear them. They're bulky and sometimes produce distortion. Besides, if a person is unable to benefit from standard BTEs, why not opt for a CI instead of wearing a body worn aid that is more cumbersome?
Click to expand...

I used to wear them back in elementary school and didn't find it comfortable, although sounds were a little louder. If they made a body aid better than the best HA, alot of people would wear the body aid part of the time, perhaps at home, speech training or listening to high frequency music he could otherwise not hear with HAs. It's much cheaper and safer than CI and not everyone wants a CI or is a candidate for one.

I still have several unanswered questions above. I am particularly curious if HA technology has been maxed out and the future will be more people getting CI and eventually, a cure in the far future.
 
john57 said:
I used to wear a body aids in high school and I hate to deal with cords on both sides of my head. It was a lot of equipment to deal with and a hassle to take off and put back on after gym period. No thanks!
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When I was in the 6th grade, they had special body-worn devices that were like hearing aids... but used to help us pay more attention to the teacher. The teacher would have a microphone on her neck and we would hear it as if she was standing in front of us. Sometimes, she would forget that she had it on and we could her her talking to others when she's not in the room. Heh!
 
Most of the high power aids while they have some gain at the higher frequencies can not give a great deal of output at that frequency range. It also been the case for as long I can remember. That why you cannot hear them. Too much power and you will end up with ripping out of the few remaining hair cells. This has happened with some hearing people at loud rock concerts.

How do I know if my inability to hear above 2000Hz is due to the extent of my HL or the programming? My audiogram shows me hearing up to 4000Hz, yet somehow I don't hear those with hearing aids? I can't hear the last few piano keys! I have played back high pitched sounds on my speakers as well and can't hear them, yet my parents and others can?
 
VamPyroX said:
When I was in the 6th grade, they had special body-worn devices that were like hearing aids... but used to help us pay more attention to the teacher. The teacher would have a microphone on her neck and we would hear it as if she was standing in front of us. Sometimes, she would forget that she had it on and we could her her talking to others when she's not in the room. Heh!
Click to expand...

When I was a college freshman, one of my professors accidentally left my FM system turned on after she went to the restroom. Once I heard her walking down the hall, I quickly turned off the receiver. :giggle:
 
deafdude1 said:
What if a person is just curious if he does still have residual hearing instead of being told that "NR" at 120db means a total loss? Also could it be useful for tracking the progression of hearing loss? Finally, if a hearing aid has a max SPL of above 120db, wouldn't it make sense to know the extent of a persons HL so the HA can be programmed for 120-130db HL?

If a person has a loss of 120 dB, the only hearing they have is being able to hear environmental sounds with hearing aids. While there's nothing wrong with that, it really does nothing in terms of allowing them to understand speech. Therefore, a hearing aid capable of an SPL of 120-130 dB is moot.

I used to wear them back in elementary school and didn't find it comfortable, although sounds were a little louder. If they made a body aid better than the best HA, alot of people would wear the body aid part of the time, perhaps at home, speech training or listening to high frequency music he could otherwise not hear with HAs. It's much cheaper and safer than CI and not everyone wants a CI or is a candidate for one.

I really don't think alot of people would wear a body aid. If that were true, why are hearing aid manufacturers making hearing aids smaller than ever -- even for profound losses?
Click to expand...
.
 
I used to have a bodyworn with hearing aids cord for several months when i was little girl. I hate it either!!!! The BTE is the best than bodyworn bra!
 
john57 said:
Most of the high power aids while they have some gain at the higher frequencies can not give a great deal of output at that frequency range. It also been the case for as long I can remember. That why you cannot hear them. Too much power and you will end up with ripping out of the few remaining hair cells. This has happened with some hearing people at loud rock concerts.
Click to expand...

The Phonak Naida V SP actually gives more gain and SPL at frequencies above 2000Hz than the Phonak Naida V UP. If I remember, the SP gives an SPL of 130db at 4000Hz and can amplify to 7200Hz while the UP only to 5700Hz. The UP however is better at 2000Hz and below in gain and SPL. Why can't we have a hearing aid that gives the best of both worlds? :hmm:

Hear again,

"If a person has a loss of 120 dB, the only hearing they have is being able to hear environmental sounds with hearing aids. While there's nothing wrong with that, it really does nothing in terms of allowing them to understand speech. Therefore, a hearing aid capable of an SPL of 120-130 dB is moot."

In my case, id just like to hear environmental sounds above 2000Hz. I read lips in order to understand speech. I need more SPL above 2000Hz so I can be able to hear high frequency environmental sounds. I have 120db loss at 4000Hz and my Phonak Naida V UP has an SPL of 120db at 4000Hz, thus I hear absolutely nothing, the SPL must exceed my HL. When playing a piano, I can't hear the last few keys.

"I really don't think alot of people would wear a body aid. If that were true, why are hearing aid manufacturers making hearing aids smaller than ever -- even for profound losses?"

It's true that a body aid is uncomfortable but im sure many would put up with it at least part time in order to hear better. Actually I asked about a mini BTE and my audie told me those are way too weak for severe-profound loss.

Thanks for your answers so far, keep them comming!
 
deafdude1

I use use the 2cm coupler data which is a bit closer to real life for me than the ear simulator data which I do not look at. The output range of the Naida V UltraPower is about the same as my Supero 412 meaning that there has not been any much if any advancement in maximum output for a number of years. The Naida V SuperPower does have more higher frequency output but there is a trade off in the low frequencies which does not help me.
On my cochlear Freedom the 7k frequency range is as loud as I can handle it and the implant still have a great reserve left for any increase at that frequency range within the map. I have never heard the 7k range as loud the CI implant can give even when I was young and hearing aids back then did not have the extended frequency range of todays hearing aids. I tell you that a loud 7k tone is not pleasant to listen to for more than 2 seconds.
 
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