Being prepared for discrimination

[shel90]

As many of you know, I grew up mainstreamed as an oral-only deaf child in a large school full of hearing children. I grew up believing that I could be "hearing" like my peers if I worked hard enough. Well, I did well academically and did well with sports earning a fast-pitching college softball scholarship. Sounds great, doesn't it? I was just as well prepared for the working world as any other kid .....except for one thing.


Discrimination and oppression against people like me.

My first encounter was during the end of my senior year, when a VR counselor stopped by my high school to interview us about how future goals. I told the counselor who was hearing and didnt know any sign language which was just as well because I didnt know any myself too. When asked what I wanted to do as a career, I told her that I wanted to be an interiror designer. She said that it was impossible because of my deafness. Right there, it was like a slap in my face because I had ignored the fact that I was different from my hearing peers because I didnt want to accept that reality due to being told that I was so smart for having great speech skills for someone with such a severe profound hearing loss.

At the time, i had a job working at Jack in the Box for 2 years by then...never had any problems until I asked for a promotion since I was always complimented for my hard work. My boss said that I couldnt be a shift leader (which made 4 dollars more than what I was earning at the time which was hell of a lot to an 18 year old) due to my deafness. Another slap in the face...told my mom. she said to ignore it because I wasnt planning a career at Jack in the Box. I thought she was right but it didnt keep me from feeling a sense of anxiety.

So, I went out in the real world and faced so manyyyyyyy situations of discrimination especially in the work force despite having good speech skills and acting like a "hearing" person.


Fast forward 20 years later...I have been teachign at a BiBi program and at the high school level, deaf students get a lesson about discrimination and oppression in the workforce. Some people say that it is just making these kids scared to try but then again, there are some like me who were never prepared and end up with big time self-esteem issues.


Which is better....prepare the kids for the potential of discrimination and oppression or have them think that they are just like their hearing peers and not worry about any of that?

Thoughts?

 

[Bottesini]

The best job I had was as a janitor. Then pet care on my own which suited me more.

But I didn't manage to do better and I am not stupid.

If I knew as a child how limited my success might be, I might have given up. So maybe better they find out on their own.

And now the ADA is some help.

 

[Beach girl]

Back when women were fighting for more equality in the workplace, there was a saying that "you have to be twice as good to go half as far as a man." That saying might be applicable to the deaf in a hearing world, too.

The most important thing, I think, is to teach skills that are directly transferable to the workplace, and increasing in complexity. Entry level skills: being on time, dressing appropriately, treating the supervisor with appropriate respect, are essential for beginning employees. It's amazing how many people don't get that!

Then basic English skills: grammar, spelling, correct written format. Most jobs that pay enough to earn a good living will require at least some written English.

Team-work skills, communication, leadership, AND good follower-ship. Communication is so important, with supervisors, colleagues, clients, customers. Whether your students use ASL, speech, or writing, technical help like ALDs, HAs/CIs, amplified phones, FM systems, or any combination of the above, each student will have to figure out effective and appropriate communication strategies.

Beyond that, yes, acknowledge that discrimination is likely to exist, but the better prepared the individual is, the more that individual is empowered to overcome the effects of discrimination. Students should be made aware of ADA standards regarding reasonable accommodations on the job.

Over-emphasizing the discrimination issue can make students depressed or sometimes make them go into their job interviews with a discernible chip on the shoulder: not a good way to make a good first impression.

On the other hand, blithely ignoring the reality that they will face greater challenges than hearing students is doing them no favors, either.

It's a question of balance: acknowledge that they will have to work hard to even get a foot in the door, and then work harder to prove themselves equal or better than their hearing colleagues. And that circles back to skills.

 

[whatdidyousay!]

I do not think kids in high school need to told about discrimination and oppression , if they where to being subject to this is would happen by the time they got to high school! I think the students should told to not let anyone stand in their way of their dream job! You should be telling the students what kind of resources are out their for them and if they do get discrimination against they'll know where to go for help.

 

[Smithtr]

I am pretty I am not fair to my counsellor VR discimmation to me I told boss I report to boss and deaf counsellor,
I am not stupid no way I am deaf think VR degree broken law is very serious!

force to control me and discrimmation, she is control conviced, I resist I said no thank I don't want see anymore her counsellor VR rehabition serious

I am very tired give up I told I want to back school you don't understand what exactly I have right health issues tough I have stress too much I give up I missing on reason I defender protect to away VR rehabition It is very terrible

she thinks you are low on mind, I disagree to her

she actually on dicrimmation to me I was hurting and upset!

 

[shel90]

Beachgirl, I was taught all those skills you mentioned but also, looking back, I had a false sense of reality...that I wouldnt encounter any barriers because I believed that because I spoke so well, had good grades, had the skills, and etc, I wouldnt be faced with discrimination. When I was, I felt so low and so helpless about what to do because nobody was really helping me deal with discrimination and oppression.

All because I think nobody wanted to face the fact that I was a deaf child regardless of how much I acted "hearing". I think that hurted me more than anything else.


I had no idea on how to self-advocate for myself. At the deaf program, these kids are being taught to self-advocate for themselves which I think is so great. Then again, some people say that by telling them how discriminating the hearing world is...it is giving them the idea that it is not worth trying.

How do we find that balance?

 

[Beach girl]

It can be tricky, but it certainly can be done.

One of my first professional jobs out of college was teaching English at a small junior college that was training future engineers. After I had been there for a while, had received excellent job reviews, and knew I was doing a good job, I found out that I was being paid substantially less than my male colleagues.

The day I found out, I was furious. So I didn't say anything, just went home, simmered down, and figured out an action plan, including exactly what I wanted to say to the director of the school.

The next day I asked for an appointment to see him. I explained that I wanted to discuss my work: was he satisfied? Did he think my students were successful? (I already knew the answers to those questions, but I wanted to hear him say it.)

So after he said what I expected ("Yes, you're great; your students are doing very well"), I asked him why my pay was so much less than colleagues who were carrying a similar load. Left unspoken was the gender issue, but since most of my colleagues were men, the implication was clear.

"uh...well....I wasn't aware of that..." (Liar!) "I'll see what I can do about that."

I said "thank you very much, I'd appreciate that." Left the office.

Two days later, I was informed I'd be getting a $2500 raise. This was back in the early '70's, and that represented a 25% raise.

I was happy; he was happy; I stayed on at the school for a while longer.

Now all this was when I was hearing. The point of it all: I had excellent speaking and writing skills, obviously; plus excellent teaching skills, and had been hired based on my high grades in college and appropriate background. All of that did not protect me from discrimination. Speaking up for myself did.

So, it's a balance. Remember the employer wants to know "What can you do for me TODAY," not so much "What were your grades in school two years ago?" Once you get in the door, good grades and where you went to school rapidly decline in importance; job performance and looking out for yourself in your career zoom to the top of the list.

Students need to know that. They need to be prepared to face discrimination calmly, AND to have the stuff to back up that they're worth what they want to be paid.

 

[TXgolfer]

It's like preparing to get bucked off a bull. There is no way to prepare and thinking a out it only makes it more likely to happen.

It's like the song "The Dance". If he had known the pain before he may not have even tried. Plus difficulty builds character but preparing for difficulty leads to being defensive which usually ends badly.

 

[Beach girl]

I'm not so sure about "no way to prepare." I mean, if you're going to ride a bull, you don't know the exact moment you'll be bucked off, but you know you need to work out, be athletically fit, know how to fall without breaking anything (I learned that in judo!), and so on.

You can prepare in a general sense, and then apply the preparation to the specific moment.

Edited: thinking about this a little more: I remember reading an article a long time ago that said that boys who play sports as kids are better prepared for the workplace in some ways than are girls who excel academically but didn't have those athletic experiences. The boys know to be prepared, know the rules and the skills of the game, keep themselves fit, play hard, and yet they still know they're not going win every time.

Smart girls often think their good grades will be enough; they aren't used to losing and feel more surprised when adversity comes up on the job.

So I think it's important that students know that sometimes they will get the short end of the stick; sometimes someone else will beat them out for a desired job. But they can still get up and try again the next day.

 

[TXgolfer]

I read something the other day that said girls who play sports in school make double the income of those that don't...

to clarify the bull comment. Yes you teach how to land.... And you teach how to get out of the way...... But yeah never teach getting bucked off. But there is no easy way off a bull.

Same thing in teaching golf. You don't teach the negatives.you don't teach how to avoid hazzards..... You teach "course management". If you teach how to avoid hazzards the student will hit every hazzard on the course.

Ben Hogan was an average putter. One year at the Masters he was having a problem 3 putting greens. Now alot of people would say he needs to work on putting between rounds. But Hogan didn't....he grabbed his 7 iron and went and pounded practice balls. He won the tourney. Asked later how he turned his putting around he said "I didn't....I am a horrible putter. So I stead I went out and worked on getting the ball closer to the hole". He also said had he practiced putting he would have just reenforced that there was a problem.... But he found hope with his ability to get the ball close.

I'm not so sure about "no way to prepare." I mean, if you're going to ride a bull, you don't know the exact moment you'll be bucked off, but you know you need to work out, be athletically fit, know how to fall without breaking anything (I learned that in judo!), and so on.

You can prepare in a general sense, and then apply the preparation to the specific moment.

Edited: thinking about this a little more: I remember reading an article a long time ago that said that boys who play sports as kids are better prepared for the workplace in some ways than are girls who excel academically but didn't have those athletic experiences. The boys know to be prepared, know the rules and the skills of the game, keep themselves fit, play hard, and yet they still know they're not going win every time.

Smart girls often think their good grades will be enough; they aren't used to losing and feel more surprised when adversity comes up on the job.

So I think it's important that students know that sometimes they will get the short end of the stick; sometimes someone else will beat them out for a desired job. But they can still get up and try again the next day.

 

[Steinhauer]

There is absolutely no way to prepare for discrimination. I have been in situations where even close friends and family were saying "Just accept the fact you can never do <insert activity> because you are HoH".

My answer was "No".

Then of course, there are those individuals (mostly people who profit from being assholes) that exclaim "You don't need an interpreter!" "You should be treated like everyone else!"

 

[Jiro]

It's like preparing to get bucked off a bull. There is no way to prepare and thinking a out it only makes it more likely to happen.

It's like the song "The Dance". If he had known the pain before he may not have even tried. Plus difficulty builds character but preparing for difficulty leads to being defensive which usually ends badly.

the difference is.... in discrimination - there are laws in place for it and it's your responsibility to know it well enough to handle a case of discrimination you may encounter.

otherwise..... your bull riding is gonna end quite badly

 

[TXgolfer]

the difference is.... in discrimination - there are laws in place for it and it's your responsibility to know it well enough to handle a case of discrimination you may encounter.

otherwise..... your bull riding is gonna end quite badly

Oh I agree...and there is really no difference. It's ok to teach the law.....just like teaching how to land

but this...

deaf students get a lesson about discrimination and oppression in the workforce.

Doesn't help them IMO....

 

[Jiro]

Oh I agree...and there is really no difference. It's ok to teach the law.....just like teaching how to land

but this...

Doesn't help them IMO....

lol it's either cuz you haven't heard about it yet or you're relating it to something similar that was unsuccessful. I know a couple of them who won discrimination lawsuits.

 

[TXgolfer]

lol it's either cuz you haven't heard about it yet or you're relating it to something similar that was unsuccessful. I know a couple of them who won discrimination lawsuits.

Not sure how this relates to what I posted..... I agreed that it would be valuable to teach the law

 

[Jiro]

Not sure how this relates to what I posted..... I agreed that it would be valuable to teach the law

I love how you make a broad statement just to cover your ass even though you don't believe in it and even though it contradicts with each other.

It's like preparing to get bucked off a bull. There is no way to prepare and thinking a out it only makes it more likely to happen.

It's like the song "The Dance". If he had known the pain before he may not have even tried. Plus difficulty builds character but preparing for difficulty leads to being defensive which usually ends badly.

Oh I agree...and there is really no difference. It's ok to teach the law.....just like teaching how to land

but this...

Doesn't help them IMO....

it's pretty obvious that you believe teaching them about discrimination law is useless. I don't see how you can say it's valuable and yet... you believe it's useless.

 

[Grummer]

urgh im sick of naive hoh's half if them DONT know deaf/Deaf reality because they prefer to pretend they experience in the same way as the hearies. unfortunately its far from the truth.

 

[Steinhauer]

urgh im sick of naive hoh's half if them DONT know deaf/Deaf reality because they prefer to pretend they experience in the same way as the hearies. unfortunately its far from the truth.

Your either saying that HoH do not experience discrimination on the same level as the deaf/Deaf, or that HoH people tend to pretend they are hearing people so they don't have to experience the same discrimination.

I am not exactly sure what you were saying and I am a little confused. No two experiences are the same, there are similarities, enough to know that it exists and is not a figment of someone's imagination.

When I have been hatefully discriminated against, I had to resist the urge to take out that person's kneecap with a crowbar. It brings out very strong emotions when it happens to me, and when I see it happening to other deaf/Deaf or HoH people the same feelings emerge.

You can only be civil for so long ....

 

[Grummer]

more the latter.

 

[Steinhauer]

I had a discussion with a law professor about this. He gave me a good illustration of how dealing with discrimination on a daily basis can turn a normal nice person into a ranting raving lunatic.

Suppose an employee goes to work and his co-worker approaches him and pokes him with a pen and giggles then walks away. It obviously hurts, but doesn't cause any physical damage. It is maybe even "funny" the first time. But, each day after that, the same thing happens, he gets poked with a pen and the other employee walks away giggling when he sees the obvious discomfort.

The employee asks his co-worker, politely, after the third time, to stop. It continues anyway. Later, the employee tells his co-worker that it isn't funny anymore, to stop it. It continues anyway.

It continues until the employee yells at his co-worker to stop. It continues.

One day, the employee comes to work, is poked with a pen, the employee grabs the pen and stabs his co-worker over and over again with it.

Who is to blame? Should the employee be charged with assault or the co-worker?

Taking that illustration, how many deaf/Deaf or HoH individuals have to deal with a co-worker that constantly taunts them for being deaf/Deaf or HoH?

I know my illustration is an extreme one, but how many deaf/Deaf or HoH have to supress feelings of anger on a daily basis (when absolutely nothing is done to alleviate the situation?)