XP vs OS X

[VamPyroX]

I won't argue that the mac gaming industry pretty much sucks. But consoles are killing the PC gaming industry, too. FYI, there are plenty of mac games, its just that they don't have enormous sums of money like EA to market their games. Most of the better 'mac only' games are shareware, with quality equal or better than commercial games.
Freeverse, Ambrosia and Pangeasoft are a couple of excellent companies with creative games. (if you don't think burning monkey solitaire from freeverse is bizarrely humorous, you're a monkey)

FYI.. simple is GOOD. think about it.. how hard is it to make something simple to understand, yet remain complex? Dismissing something as 'simple' without examining it is an arrogant behavior. If you didn't know, Mac OS X is based on BSD, which means it is an 'UNIX' operating system, running virtually everything Linux can. Bash shell, X11 windowing system with Gnome or KDE, Gimp, CUPS printing system, Apache webserver (installed by default!) etc, etc.
Linux is unfortunately considered a 'geek' system these days because of its powerful capabilties, yet glaring usability holes. Macs have many of the SAME powers, but set up in a way that is much simpler to use.

oh.. note that Gates himself has announced that they don't have a release date for longhorn but "people are speculating that we're out in '06 sometime and that's probably valid speculation". Linky
Is that the fourth or fifth time frame given for longhorn?

You're right. Simple is nice. You familiar with the "bell curve"? Long ago, Apple was considered the best computer. As more people became more familiar with computer usability, the attention shifted to PCs. Now, if you look at the curve... you'll notice that most people in the greater middle are PC users and the people who are in the lower right/left are MAC users. What the middle represents are people who are skilled with computers and use it for far more complex operations.

My mom is computer illiterate. The best computer for her would be MAC. She never uses the right button or the scroller. Even in MS Word documents, she doesn't scroll the document with the wheel... but with the scroll buttons using the left button. As for AOL or AIM, she's always typing in her message and clicking the left mouse button to submit instead of using RETURN or CTRL+RETURN. Sad, huh?

For me, I use the right button nearly as much as I use the left button. I use the middle wheel nearly as much as I use the right button. I'm also constantly renaming files and opening files with multiple programs by using the right-button feature. There's so much to be done in PCs that I can't exactly do in MACs. Heh!

 

[Vance]

FYI.. simple is GOOD. think about it.. how hard is it to make something simple to understand, yet remain complex? Dismissing something as 'simple' without examining it is an arrogant behavior. If you didn't know, Mac OS X is based on BSD, which means it is an 'UNIX' operating system, running virtually everything Linux can. Bash shell, X11 windowing system with Gnome or KDE, Gimp, CUPS printing system, Apache webserver (installed by default!) etc, etc.
Linux is unfortunately considered a 'geek' system these days because of its powerful capabilties, yet glaring usability holes. Macs have many of the SAME powers, but set up in a way that is much simpler to use.

Again, it is largely depend on people and their common sense really. Anything with PC is rather very simple to me. It is just like pick up a block and put it on other block to make a house and voila. Well, if there is challenge for some of you or me with PC then it is GOOD to have challenge otherwise you could not learn or find a way to solve a problem. Problem solving skill is very very important that people tend to overlook or lack of.

UNIX is quite useful for networking and some, I'd love to use it for networking but heavy duty, it isn't. There are cons about UNIX that needs to fix or improve.

 

[Banjo]

For me, I use the right button nearly as much as I use the left button. I use the middle wheel nearly as much as I use the right button. I'm also constantly renaming files and opening files with multiple programs by using the right-button feature. There's so much to be done in PCs that I can't exactly do in MACs. Heh!

That's where you're wrong. Mac OS X is perfectly capable of doing that. Obviously you are not an experienced Mac OS X user.

As more people became more familiar with computer usability, the attention shifted to PCs. Now, if you look at the curve... you'll notice that most people in the greater middle are PC users and the people who are in the lower right/left are MAC users. What the middle represents are people who are skilled with computers and use it for far more complex operations.

The PC users are the majority, but the stupidity are popular among them. Just look at the amount of viruses they allow into their computers everyday.

The majority of the population own analog TVs, so are analog TVs better than HDTVs?

No, just because more people use one certain thing doesn't mean it's better than the other.

I know what I want from a computer, and it is not the games. It's what my needs are.

Apple offer more to their customers because they include both hardwares and softwares which is what I like. With PC, you get a bowl of tossed salad which isn't always good.

OS X is not as simple as you would like to think, but it is a better OS than Windows XP that I'll bet on. I have Windows XP Professional on the PC, and Mac OS X 10.3 on my MAC, and I have spent my whole life with PC, and has been only using MAC for a bit more than a year. Already, I can see big differences and I use the Mac far more often due to their offerings that Microsoft lacks in their operating systems. At least I can trust Apple to not sell me a "Windows ME" OS.

Now, about Microsoft Longhorn... what's up with the delays?

 

[Banjo]

Again, it is largely depend on people and their common sense really. Anything with PC is rather very simple to me. It is just like pick up a block and put it on other block to make a house and voila. Well,

if there is challenge for some of you or me with PC then it is GOOD to have challenge otherwise you could not learn or find a way to solve a problem. Problem solving skill is very very important that people tend to overlook or lack of

Not everybody want to be challenged by a computer. Some people don't have the time to deal with these problems. That's why it is extremely important that OSes are designed to be as user-friendly as possible. I can imagine that a lot of the glitches and problems has caused millions, maybe billions in damages to both small and big businesses.

It is very important that you use the right hardwares and softwares so that way they won't make a conflict, especially in the graphic design, multimedia, entertainment, newspapers because we all have deadlines to meet.

We all face problems everyday and the majority of it aren't even computer-related. I have my experiences in solving problems, even on the Mac. If you ruin into a problem on the Mac, it can be tricky sometimes but I've always managed to solve these problems on my own.

 

[Vance]

Not everybody want to be challenged by a computer. Some people don't have the time to deal with these problems.

While you are right, but we are in computer/technology era and we probably will have to deal with computer on daily basis in future. I mean everything will possibly link directly to computer, we definitely have to learn to overcome the challenges, fix the problems or learn how to do that and that or .. we will simply discard in the gutter and forgetten.


oh btw about this:

But consoles are killing the PC gaming industry, too.

Interesting because Wired and TechTV stated otherwise, PC gaming industry have been chipped in some more than other consoles does (Example: GameCube).

Oh btw about LongHorn, I don't mind if they kept postponing the LongHorn release, I prefer them to fix/improve LongHorn before it gets release but know Micrsoft and its history.. there will be some bugs come with it. Do you know that Japan and other certain countries are working on entirely new OS? That's one I think I rather will get it if it comes out with english verison.

 

[Banjo]

Do you know that Japan and other certain countries are working on entirely new OS? That's one I think I rather will get it if it comes out with english verison.

Hmm, it does ring a bell to me but cannot put my fingers onto it. Can you give me some links to provide the information?

I'm interested in reading about it.

 

[bree]

*sigh*

Let me repeat: its hard to make something simple, yet remain complex.
That is exactly the aim of any sort of intelligent designer. There was recently an argument on this very subject, ignited by an article by Eric S. Raymond. (The guy behind GNU software).
Raymond argues in The Luxury of Ignorance that Free software has been bad at creating usable programs. This was counterpointed in Daring Fireball where it states that if Raymond has a problem with software, the guy who is considered an elite computer guru, then there are actually serious problems not only with the 'illiterates', but with programs themselves.
Both articles were discussed on slashdot. (here and here). I would urge you to read and judge for yourself.
My point is really very simple. People easily assume that simple = dumb. and complex = better. In fact, the reverse is often true. Its easy to just throw everything at a problem, and it takes a lot of effort to boil a problem down into its essence so it can be very easily resolved by any one.
Now the result of this is that its easy to ASSUME that something that is more complex is better. Because something is tough to figure out, it makes you feel better when you figure it out. But something simple is dismissed because 'its so easy', despite how difficult it is in reality. Ever see a tightrope walker and think 'thats easy?', then try it yourself?
What happens when you actually make something easy to use? Why, people can use it BETTER than something complex. The tool gets OUT of your way, so you can work. Any pro in a field that needs complex tools knows this.
A computer is a tool. nothing more, nothing less. If it is NOT easy, then it is a lousy tool.
Now.. dismissing the Mac as a tool for the simple is actually a back handed compliment. It gets out of your way, you can work. It can still do complex tasks, but you can do them without having to 'fight' this tool. Somebody who has serious work to do does not want to fight, they just want to get the job done.. anytime a tool breaks or makes it take more time to do its job, it means lost work, and lost money. It honestly disgusts me that it is considered acceptable for a computer to 'crash' at all.

 

[Vance]

Yes yes, I guess I have to state again, it is entirely depend on people and their common sense. Nothing more than that. Simplicity and complexity is define by our individual perspective, not mass.

You are right that computer is a tool but it is depend on our common sense to define how difficulty it will to be use by us. I surely did not say this so-called "simple = dumb, complex = better" comment. People insisted that Mac is easy to use and PC is hard to use, that's where I stand on and input my opinions. Ignorance is hardly my part if you are trying to say.. Old saying, anyone said others are ignorant usualy are ignorant themselves. Many people don't realize that having common sense is majorly factor in computer area. Very good examples: Check this out, Computer Stupidities.. it tells everything about people who have zero or little common sense.

Example: One man can do anything with a hammer yet could not do anything with machine drill.. why? lack of common sense to observe, to learn and to know how and what to do with. That's what happen to population on earth. I personally prefer simplicity over anything but yet I have to learn to use any complexities if need to get what I need or what to do. I repeat; it is entirely depend on people and their common sense. Nothing more than that. Simplicity and complexity is define by our individual perspective, not mass.

What is simplicity and what is complexity? it is depend on your perspective.. maybe there is a tool that is hard for you to use yet to other, it is very easy to use.


Banjo, sure I will have to look up for that and post the links if I can find it. I got that information from Wired magainze so I will have to look for that magazine to find out.

Edit: Banjo, I found it but not at Wired site however here it is.. Report: Japan, Korea, China to break Windows ties

 

[bree]

Sorry if i wasn't clear, Magatsu, but I primarily replying to VamPyroX's implication that Mac users are at the low end of the bell curve.
You are right in that simplicity and complexity are (at least somewhat) a matter of perspective. But what I was trying to refer to is the matter of Design and usability. This is actually an entire field of study by itself. Culling it down to simplicity vs. complexity is an overstatement, even if it is useful as a way to provide examples.
You are right in that it is becoming essential to learn how to use computers in today's society, but the reverse is also true. Computers need to designed FOR people to use. It is far to easy to 'blame the user' when it is the computer that was stupidly designed in the first place.

 

[VamPyroX]

Yes yes, I guess I have to state again, it is entirely depend on people and their common sense. Nothing more than that. Simplicity and complexity is define by our individual perspective, not mass.

You are right that computer is a tool but it is depend on our common sense to define how difficulty it will to be use by us. I surely did not say this so-called "simple = dumb, complex = better" comment. People insisted that Mac is easy to use and PC is hard to use, that's where I stand on and input my opinions. Ignorance is hardly my part if you are trying to say.. Old saying, anyone said others are ignorant usualy are ignorant themselves. Many people don't realize that having common sense is majorly factor in computer area. Very good examples: Check this out, Computer Stupidities.. it tells everything about people who have zero or little common sense.

Example: One man can do anything with a hammer yet could not do anything with machine drill.. why? lack of common sense to observe, to learn and to know how and what to do with. That's what happen to population on earth. I personally prefer simplicity over anything but yet I have to learn to use any complexities if need to get what I need or what to do. I repeat; it is entirely depend on people and their common sense. Nothing more than that. Simplicity and complexity is define by our individual perspective, not mass.

What is simplicity and what is complexity? it is depend on your perspective.. maybe there is a tool that is hard for you to use yet to other, it is very easy to use.


Banjo, sure I will have to look up for that and post the links if I can find it. I got that information from Wired magainze so I will have to look for that magazine to find out.

Edit: Banjo, I found it but not at Wired site however here it is.. Report: Japan, Korea, China to break Windows ties

That webpage points out exactly the problem! That is how most MACs are designed. Most MACs come to be built in the most simple way as possible. There are usually a few plugs and the hard drive is sometimes part of the monitor. For the PC, it can be built easily with anything you want.

 

[VamPyroX]

Sorry if i wasn't clear, Magatsu, but I primarily replying to VamPyroX's implication that Mac users are at the low end of the bell curve.
You are right in that simplicity and complexity are (at least somewhat) a matter of perspective. But what I was trying to refer to is the matter of Design and usability. This is actually an entire field of study by itself. Culling it down to simplicity vs. complexity is an overstatement, even if it is useful as a way to provide examples.
You are right in that it is becoming essential to learn how to use computers in today's society, but the reverse is also true. Computers need to designed FOR people to use. It is far to easy to 'blame the user' when it is the computer that was stupidly designed in the first place.

bree is right. It's the common law of innovations. When something is invented, everyone is at the beginning of the bell curve. Not many people know about it. As time passes, more people learn how to use it. Some people get behind so they stay at the front. Some people can't handle complexity so they stay in the back. That's the last part of the bell curve. I'm not saying that people are stupid. Yes, there are stupid people... but in the bell curve, it's the people who prefer to stay behind. My grandparents don't even have a computer! The most high-tech equipment they own is the VCR. They got their first VCR 4 years ago! That's how behind they are!

 

[bree]

bree is right. It's the common law of innovations. When something is invented, everyone is at the beginning of the bell curve. Not many people know about it. As time passes, more people learn how to use it. Some people get behind so they stay at the front. Some people can't handle complexity so they stay in the back. That's the last part of the bell curve. I'm not saying that people are stupid. Yes, there are stupid people... but in the bell curve, it's the people who prefer to stay behind. My grandparents don't even have a computer! The most high-tech equipment they own is the VCR. They got their first VCR 4 years ago! That's how behind they are!

The Bell curve is useful in evaluating people because that is how things usually occur, with a few people at the 'top' and bottom' of the curve. Unfortunately, with computers, the majority is not computer inclined, so as to be at the BOTTOM, not the middle. What is worse is that you have people at the TOP still having problems, while blaming themselves for the problem.
Eric Raymond is one of the more noted computer gurus, and HE has problems with computers. Raymond made a point in that what is killing computer use is its complete focus on the 'elite', the programmers. When there is ANY focus on the users, its usually a focus on the 'grandmas', that is, the complete illiterates. (like raymond mentions). Not everybody is an idiot, but many people are quite put off at having to complex things to do simple tasks. A division between 'elite' and 'newbies' puts people down, and discourages both people who have some understanding, and those who are 'pros'. How do you make every one happy, and not treat people like idiots?
THAT is what useability studies will do.

 

[illustrator]

PC waste my time. That's all. :-D

Anyway, I tested on bluetooth on Mac OS which are far better and easy to setup.

Also, look at pc news how they compare about bluetooth on Mac and PC.

Bluetooth Better on the Mac
http://www.pcworld.com/reviews/article/0,aid,115279,00.asp

oops. there is no bluetooth available for Linux. heh.

 

[sequoias]

Don't sweat it...Mac OS X is the best!!!! STABLE, no viruses, attractive, I love it...I'm on my Mac with broadband connection and I do photography on it and other stuff.

 

[Hermit of ozark]

this thread is funny.



Theres no "best" operationing system out there, since I use both of them. They each have their own style, and different method of maintenances.

 

[illustrator]

this thread is funny.

Theres no "best" operationing system out there, since I use both of them. They each have their own style, and different method of maintenances.

there are only two OS (Windows and Mac). Must be include Adobe's famous programers

Therefore, I hate Window so much as it waste my time than I spent on Mac which is wonderful and save my butt.

 

[bree]

Theres no "best" operationing system out there, since I use both of them. They each have their own style, and different method of maintenances.

Yeah, two. =)
There's windows 3.1, windows 95, windows 98, windows ME, windows 2000, windows NT, and windows XP. 'Windows' is a brand name for various RELATED operating system versions. It's not one OS.
Could also say that mac os 9, mac os X, etc are different systems. Then add various Linux systems, Palm OS (yes, its an OS), various flavors of unix (bsd, freebsd, solaris, AIX, etc etc). There are Oses for 'embedded systems' .. for your car, for your TV, for...
My guess is that at a minimum, there are hundreds of OSes. Number will fluctuate depending on the exact definition.

I vote QNX.
Thats the best. For nuclear power plants, anyway. Its more or less the only OS thats rated for such environments. Would you even dare have Windows running there? The Blue screen of death would have an entirely new meaning.
Best depends on what you need an OS for, no? The 'style' of the OS can effect how it works ENORMOUSLY, so can be a a 'best' OS depending on the situation.

 

[Ziusudra]

Hmm... I've been informed that I need about 256 recommended RAM, more would be better to run OS X on a G3 366mhz ibook. Not only that but OS X requires gigabytes of memory to run. XP is far easier to install on most standard PCs. However, being a Mac person, I'd prefer to run OS X. I need OS X because of the availability of software for the Mac... I'm currently on OS 9.2, and there just isn't enough programs available for Classic anymore.

Also, Macs are wonderful tools for computer literate people as they have great results if you know how to use it. PCs are very simple as it comes supplied with instructions. However, there is an article on a site about the 1 buttonised Mac mouse. It's designed for people who are new to computers, so they don't get confused with which button to use, how to use it and so on. That's one of the reasons Macs are designed to be simplistic and easy to use. However, with some programs, it can be made to look just like a PC, and used just like a PC.

 

[bree]

Hmm... I've been informed that I need about 256 recommended RAM, more would be better to run OS X on a G3 366mhz ibook. Not only that but OS X requires gigabytes of memory to run. XP is far easier to install on most standard PCs. However, being a Mac person, I'd prefer to run OS X. I need OS X because of the availability of software for the Mac... I'm currently on OS 9.2, and there just isn't enough programs available for Classic anymore.

A minimum of 256 MB ram is a good idea for Mac OS X. It works differently than Mac OS 9, and uses ram whenever it can to make things work efficiently. So the more the merrier. But gigabytes of memory required? hardly.
XP isn't necessarily easier to install, but it is easier to install on a PC considering that Mac OS won't install on it at all. =)
From what I have learned, XP seems to demand more computer resources than OS X.

 

[sequoias]

A minimum of 256 MB ram is a good idea for Mac OS X. It works differently than Mac OS 9, and uses ram whenever it can to make things work efficiently. So the more the merrier. But gigabytes of memory required? hardly.
XP isn't necessarily easier to install, but it is easier to install on a PC considering that Mac OS won't install on it at all. =)
From what I have learned, XP seems to demand more computer resources than OS X.

Yeah, that's right...256 is the minimum to have OS X to run efficently...tho it doesn't hurt to have lots of memory...I have 640 MB of RAM on my G4/733 MHz system. It seems that OS X seems getting better in every updates....it was dead slow when it first came out in 2000, now it's quick and smooth. Theres so many new software for Mac OS X than what we had on Mac OS 9, I guess developers have gotten strong interest in Mac OS X software development. It's a great OS.