Written ASL

[pinkster]

I must say, I was thoroughly entertained by reading the original post. ASL itself is sooo beautiful, you know? I have yet to master it, all my thoughts are in English, very rarely are they in ASL.

Personally I felt it underminded my intelligence and it's an easy way out for Deaf people who don't want to learn the proper english syntax and comprehension. I have worked so hard all my life to learn proper english and I feel insulted if the majority of the Deaf community accepts this as their language.

A little harsh, arent you? I highly doubt a Spanish speaking person would say the same when Spanish is translated to English. People (myself included) are far too absorbed in the English writing system, to acknowlegde and accept the fact that other languages have their own grammar system. Like I said, I was entertained, because ASL entertains me. I watched Sharen Neuman something, a lady from California, she came to tell some stories in ASL. I had so much fun watching her, she sign in complete ASL with a few English concepts here and there. Why must ASL be looked at as poor grammar? Its a visual language for goodness sake!

But I must admit, I correct deaf people all the time (more my mother than anything else) cause I'd like to see her succeed and fill out forms on her own. She always comes to me to help her with her employee self-appraisal at her work. What can you do? Well we can stop insulting and looking down on each other for our 'lack', so to speak, of proper grammar and accept languages for what they are

 

[Mizzou]

At frist, I did not notice that written been ASL and Fly Free asked me to read it again -- I get better read and really conflict into my thinks. I said bad english and she said it is ASL, I was like huh?? I look at her -- well, look at me, I used ASL and English mixed but not know much complete ASL signs or written.....

 

[Socrates]

I must say, I was thoroughly entertained by reading the original post. ASL itself is sooo beautiful, you know? I have yet to master it, all my thoughts are in English, very rarely are they in ASL.



A little harsh, arent you? I highly doubt a Spanish speaking person would say the same when Spanish is translated to English. People (myself included) are far too absorbed in the English writing system, to acknowlegde and accept the fact that other languages have their own grammar system. Like I said, I was entertained, because ASL entertains me. I watched Sharen Neuman something, a lady from California, she came to tell some stories in ASL. I had so much fun watching her, she sign in complete ASL with a few English concepts here and there. Why must ASL be looked at as poor grammar? Its a visual language for goodness sake!

But I must admit, I correct deaf people all the time (more my mother than anything else) cause I'd like to see her succeed and fill out forms on her own. She always comes to me to help her with her employee self-appraisal at her work. What can you do? Well we can stop insulting and looking down on each other for our 'lack', so to speak, of proper grammar and accept languages for what they are

You may view my post as harsh but if you'd check that I did state I do respect others' choice of using ASL.

However, it is your right to have "Written ASL" and I respect you all to it. I cannot judge you as I prefer English and however you choose is your right.

Keep in mind, I am the type of person that says/writes things as she sees it. Not a lot people like it but eventually you will like me in the long run because we will be like sympatico.

 

[deafdyke]

I highly doubt a Spanish speaking person would say the same when Spanish is translated to English. People (myself included) are far too absorbed in the English writing system, to acknowlegde and accept the fact that other languages have their own grammar system

Not to pick on you Soc, but the literacy problem is due to deaf people approaching English as a second language...Research has indicated that Deaf people make the same sort of English errors as do native speakers of say Spanish or whatever. Haven't you ever read some of those odd English sites, where you can read "English" constructions written by speakers of other languages? Those sites make ASLers look like they have a command of English that would befit a Harvard professor!

and Begans Assimilate You.... For someone that does not know asl they are going to look at that and go wtf.

On the other hand, Begans Assimulate You looks almost like....remember that computer phrase that looked like broken English that was popular a few years ago?

i just really think that its the parents fault that a lot of the deaf people nowadays write the way they do. i've worked at the elementary school through a work experience program in school for 3 years, and i've seen the difference between those whose parents sign and encourage them to sign and write and those whose parents do not sign.

Yes...it's parental involvement that's key, not methodology. I know someone who was raised ASL only, went to res school (ASD) and went to Gally and finally got a Master's from a hearing (state) college!

 

[Lorias1228]

Actually, there is no such thing as written ASL. That is because all the grammatical functions are on the face and not in the signs. So all that really was is a non-exact translation into English of one persons signs in ASL and not the language itself.

ASL is not a written language and can not be transcribe as such because of the mouthings and the adverb/adjective placement on the face, along with sentence types being found from the eyes up. I just spent two years taking ASL grammer and linguistics and it really is fascinating to learn.

I did write a story that used much this type of translation of ASL in the story but stated that it was only an English translation and not an equivalent.

If you can I would look for an ASL Grammar and linguistics class in your area. Knowing more about your own language is insightful and helps to fascilitate greater understanding.

ASL is not English and therefore can not be forced to adhere to the rules of written English in context or syntax. It can not be expected to look or read like English even when written in an English translation.

Lori
VU American Sign Language Studies Program.

 

[pinkster]

You may view my post as harsh but if you'd check that I did state I do respect others' choice of using ASL.

As if I needed permission to think things about your post And in what I quoted, you did not say you respected other people's choice of using ASL. So, I would like to see that. (I did read all the previous posts and could not find it.)

Keep in mind, I am the type of person that says/writes things as she sees it. Not a lot people like it but eventually you will like me in the long run because we will be like sympatico.

Then you would be no different then anyone else here. Everyday people speak their mind, regardless of whether people like it or not. That's how we create threads that cause debate and whatnot. So the kind of person you are, is really irrellevant to my response, because I was responding to your lack of understanding and abhorrance of ASL written down, not the kind of person you are. I'm sure eventually we'll see things similarly, but ASL is one of those things where people will always butt heads about.

 

[pinkster]

Not to pick on you Soc, but the literacy problem is due to deaf people approaching English as a second language...Research has indicated that Deaf people make the same sort of English errors as do native speakers of say Spanish or whatever. Haven't you ever read some of those odd English sites, where you can read "English" constructions written by speakers of other languages? Those sites make ASLers look like they have a command of English that would befit a Harvard professor!
On the other hand, Begans Assimulate You looks almost like....remember that computer phrase that looked like broken English that was popular a few years ago?

durr.. I was actually the one who said the Spanish comparison.. But I suppose you are right, people dont approach ASL as a second language. My dad said something long ago about this. He said teaching English to people who have only known ASL, without using ASL, is like teaching English to people who have only known Spanish, without using Spanish;and then everything gets lost.

Im not missing the whole point of teaching English to ASL users, it just bugs me when deaf people say "i dont care" when people try to correct them - for the better. I get sick of deaf people saying, "i dont care, im not going to be like hearing people, the deaf way is better." Well hello there, I'd like to see those people succeed with the type of reading and writing skills they have. Theres nothing more (other than arrogance and ignorance) that will upset me more than negligence - more with deaf people than hearing people.


True fact - the average American has a 5th-8th grade reading level. So what difference does it make?

 

[Socrates]

As if I needed permission to think things about your post And in what I quoted, you did not say you respected other people's choice of using ASL. So, I would like to see that. (I did read all the previous posts and could not find it.)




Then you would be no different then anyone else here. Everyday people speak their mind, regardless of whether people like it or not. That's how we create threads that cause debate and whatnot. So the kind of person you are, is really irrellevant to my response, because I was responding to your lack of understanding and abhorrance of ASL written down, not the kind of person you are. I'm sure eventually we'll see things similarly, but ASL is one of those things where people will always butt heads about.

And in what I quoted, you did not say you respected other people's choice of using ASL. So, I would like to see that. (I did read all the previous posts and could not find it.)

You asked for my previous post, pinkster so I am providing it with a link as well. http://www.alldeaf.com/showpost.php?p=185208&postcount=19

However, it is your right to have "Written ASL" and I respect you all to it. I cannot judge you as I prefer English and however you choose is your right.

I am not one to mock people, I accept people for who they are, flaws and all because I am far from perfect.

 

[pinkster]

You asked for my previous post, pinkster so I am providing it with a link as well. http://www.alldeaf.com/showpost.php?p=185208&postcount=19


I am not one to mock people, I accept people for who they are, flaws and all because I am far from perfect.

Err.. musta overlooked that one In any case, we're not too different, you know? Pardon my rudeness, I get heated sometimes

 

[Socrates]

It's totally sympatico, pinkster!! I am a lot like you. I have very special friends that I credit for my humility because if it weren't for them, I would be chewing people's heads off because I am very passionate about my feelings & how people are being treated unfairly.

 

[Mizzou]

I just remmy one time, I was credit for writing class and my mom point to Second English Language classes -- I told her I not need that classes, just writing classes so I ended up in right classes for writing because I took the test and prove it. My mom still think I need a second english language class!!! I am not forgien here - just being deaf and talk/write mixed of language so need better corrects.

 

[javapride]

I so agree with you mizz deaf, and i have to say this, No one is perfect in english and we do not need to be cricitized for what we speak out, the posting katzie made was a great one i read it first then showed it to mom who just was dumbfounded and relize my world a lot better now days and see the concept and respects me as a whole and understands no one can write the perfect english i remmy one of my friend was an awful speller, even my sister is also a awful speller. AND doesn't use her grammars real well in writing and what's more she's HEARING and shes been using hooked on phonics ( but thats another post i won't go futher here) and the school never really push forth in the educational system just bypassed her grades so she can graduate which is really sad she could succeed in a better postition and travel the 7 seas without having to fill out papers constantly and always being cricitized cuz the bozz says shes doing it wrong filling out wrong forms too... she can read good but its her writing that sucks!

all in all all lanagauges are bootiful and no one needs to judge anyone!

 

[pinkster]

I so agree with you mizz deaf, and i have to say this, No one is perfect in english and we do not need to be cricitized for what we speak out, the posting katzie made was a great one i read it first then showed it to mom who just was dumbfounded and relize my world a lot better now days and see the concept and respects me as a whole and understands no one can write the perfect english i remmy one of my friend was an awful speller, even my sister is also a awful speller. AND doesn't use her grammars real well in writing and what's more she's HEARING and shes been using hooked on phonics ( but thats another post i won't go futher here) and the school never really push forth in the educational system just bypassed her grades so she can graduate which is really sad she could succeed in a better postition and travel the 7 seas without having to fill out papers constantly and always being cricitized cuz the bozz says shes doing it wrong filling out wrong forms too... she can read good but its her writing that sucks!

all in all all lanagauges are bootiful and no one needs to judge anyone!

You're right, no one is perfect, but who says theres no room for improvement? Especially if that improvement means you communication skills will be enhanced?

 

[Y]

Since there are many forms of music
and poems, there are NOTHING
Right or Wrong with any music and/or poem only
because they're merely art form of
expression. ASL is considered something
like our deaf culture's artistic creative expression
replacing these music, poem and English.

Based on my observation, Listening to
these songs seem much more beautiful
than these written songs/lycrics...

This is the same analogy as watching ASL
seem much more beautiful in signing
rather than ASL in writing.

 

[gnulinuxman]

Deaf people tend to not write many sentences with professionals if the interpreters are not available.

I always wrote a note, Where the Rest Room is ? Order food... Ask assistant to find the book and name of the author... library book...

I do not write many notes to the hearing people nowadays.... I do using a lot of guester to communication with them. Unfortunately, they are scared of me because my voice sounds like a monkey. What can I do??

They should use ASL and teach us for a better English writing. Learn how to speak is waste of my fucking time. Explore in ASL will help us to writing better in our English structure sentences.

Nowadays, I have seen many young Deaf children learn so much more English than my time. They have DEAF teachers !!! I envy them !

Sorry to read that. This kind of stuff...makes me Oralists make me want to puke, seriously. Their arguments against signing are pure bullshit. Real signing is beautiful.

Even though I am a hearing person (and I don't pretend to be an expert on Deaf culture), I think Deaf people know what's best for Deaf people. It's ridiculous how many hearing people who have NO IDEA what it's like to live as a deaf person pretend to be experts on deaf education.

I agree 100% with your post about learning ASL first and then using that to teach English. Everybody needs to start with a language, and I firmly believe ASL is an excellent language to start with.

damn oralists..... :rl:

I really think deaf kids should only learn to use their voices if they want to, not because their hearing parents are too damn lazy to learn to sign.

 

[ayala920]

i agree-if you are going to learn how to write, at least learn how to write it properly. i use asl everyday, i communicate in asl, my life revolves around asl, yet you do not see me writing in asl. i just really think that its the parents fault that a lot of the deaf people nowadays write the way they do. i've worked at the elementary school through a work experience program in school for 3 years, and i've seen the difference between those whose parents sign and encourage them to sign and write and those whose parents do not sign.

I agree that a lot of the blame falls on the parents. However, the other biggie is the teachers. I know parents are/should be responsible for their child's education, but let's face it: Most of the time, they aren't. They depend on the teachers to teach their children, and assume that will be enough. Unfortunately, not enough Deaf Education teachers are fluent enough in ASL (or SEE or whatever their preferred signing method is) to accurately teach ASL.

I work with 2 deaf ed. teachers, who have been teaching for 1-2 years in Deaf Ed. Neither of them has a degree in DE (on has a history ed. and the other special ed.), so they're picking up sign as they go along. While it's great that they're trying, they're really harming the kids more than helping them. Because they can't fluently express themselves in the language our students use, they can't teach the way they would if they were speaking to a hearing class. It's sad, really.