Wrestling with Angels

[teamint]

Teamint, correct me if I'm wrong, but you seem to have the same problem I do, just on a much more extreme level. You are trying to intellectually box something that cannot be boxed very easily on an intellectual level because it's more emotionally based. You seem to have more trouble than I do with it and for that I really send my sympathy.

If that's the case, then I know you're not trying to be an ass. If I am correct, then you probably frequently find yourself having insulted people and then be genuinely confused on why they got so angry and unable to find ANY reason why they COULD be angry. It happens VERY frequently to me.

Guys, if this is the case it truly is NOT a case of trying to be rude. It's just being too.....clumsy? in the interaction. My husband frequently has to explain to me why something I've said is easily misconstrued even though I can't see how on earth it could possibly mean anything insulting and I'm very genuine in my interest...it's just I want to know..to understand EVERYTHING and I'm not very good at seeing the line where my questioning may become a problem. I also don't realize easily how what I've said can be insensitive because it's a perfectly logical conclusion or question and it's very difficult for me to see the more emotional side of it.

OH MY GOODNESS!! Yes, it is JUST like that ALL THE TIME! Particularly in discussions where the roles are not previously defined. Like, if I am talking to my boss, I am good. If I am talking to a patient, it's good. Because there are roles, you know? And yes, my spouse is frequently my 'interpreter' to the confusing reactions of the world.

What strategies do you use to not be so 'clumsy?' What have you learned to do, especially in non-hierarchical defined role-based conversations? Do you just curb your curiosity? If you are comfortable answering, did either one of your parents have this same problem?

 

[teamint]

Um... guys...? So, I am not a "he." I am a "she." It doesn't bother me that you took the most likely conclusion from my spouse being female. I am not offended or anything. And I was inclined not to correct anyone, so as not to 'make waves' again. But my spouse says that I must tell you all because it is impolite to have you thinking you are writing to a male when I am female. (Although what difference that makes it beyond me, but I trust her judgement.)

 

[teamint]

I understand what Teamint is trying to do. I am just not sure there are enough people of his personality type for his effort to be successful.

<chuckle> So, Grayma, are you familiar at all with Objectivism? I ask because I was IN LOVE with Randian philosophy in my early teens. But as I grew up, particularly in the transition from high school to undergrad, began to resign myself to the conclusion that it could never work. Mostly because there are not that many 'rational men.' (DONT FREAK OUT! I am using "rational" as Rand used it, because I am talking about THAT philosophy. I am not saying anybody is irrational by common definitions of the word!) I think this is similar, maybe. So, yeah - you might be right. But I simply cannot accept that it means we should not TRY to understand people of other personalities and cultures and such. I think I would rather try and fail, than know I didn't try.

 

[teamint]

Also, as to the name of this thread. I do not wrestle with Angels, I have too much respect for them, I do however wrestle with Demons daily.

ROTGL!

 

[teamint]

That's what I told him in a simple suggestion.

I'm trying! See how I've been restrained, and encouraging and such? I've only asked one or two questions, since your suggestion.... and I've THOUGHT a hundred at minimum!

 

[teamint]

Where is option 3? I have been both. Amazing how perspective changes when you jump the chasm from hearing to deaf.

Second, I am always humored by educated people that want to understand something, then turn around and use their educated writing skills to belittle posters that might not have the same writing level. Does this produce anything, other than a smirk that crosses your face?

One last thing; why do these college-produced brilliant minds spend time trying to educate us? I deal with another one in a different forum, and it ends up being a showcase for their massive pile of "paid for" educational prowess. How can that compare to "living it" education? How is a college degree equal to a life-long experience? How many college credits equal 10 years of living deaf?

I don't know if I am supposed to respond to this or not. <looking to other poster> Frisky?

 

[Frisky Feline]

Ohhh thank you for clarifying this that you are a "she". Ok, have your spouse express her experience with you with her past when she has hearing loss??

 

[teamint]

Or, why is his spouse not the one to sign up and learn about what it is like to be deaf?

I think I have somehow caused confusion... again. My spouse is HoH and has progressive loss. It occurs in spurts. Sometimes she will plateau for a while, then get worse again. She has no history in the Deaf culture. I asked her about the postings because she is my interpreter in the Emotional world.

I said, essentially: Honey, look at this! They are all mad at me. I just asked a simple question. I never intended to insult anyone. Maybe this was a bad idea. Do you think this is a Deaf/hearing thing and I just stumbled over a language barrier and they don't understand what I am asking?

And she hugged me, and tried to sooth my confusion, and told me that it was likely another example of the 'emotional vs intellectual' chasm that is common place enough in our lives that we've given it slang names. She also admitted that there could be a language issue as well, because I tend to write in a formal logic manner when trying to figure something out on paper. She said that emotional people are trying to express a "jist of something," and do not necessarily think about the words that they use in a formal way. She mentioned that if the people could see me in person that they might not have been so inflamed.

My spouse is great! I am so blessed.

Oh, and she is not on the posts because I'm hogging the lap-top and she is caught up in her newest scifi series. That's what she said, when I asked her. Also, she is much more introverted than I am - she doesn't really reach out in social forums for fun/education. She is waving "hi" from the couch.

As to my motivation to begin with, it wasn't because of her. It is because I have seen a HUGE disparity gap in the health care provisions, health education, etc between Deaf and hearing patients. And this disturbs me. I thought I'd look more into it. I found a few handfuls of peer-reviewed journal articles addressing the subject. Then, I ran out of data. It seemed like a good idea to go directly to the source and try to figure out the "whys" of things. (I know, I know. Don't ask "why." I am trying not to. I am just stating what the intent was.)

 

[teamint]

Ohhh thank you for clarifying this that you are a "she". Ok, have your spouse express her experience with you with her past when she has hearing loss??

Yes. Mostly hers are frustrations at work these days. Although, before we had a diagnosis, I was in med school. We had these horrible fights because, for my perspective, she wasn't listening! And from hers, well - she didn't hear it. I would say, "But you were standing right there!" And she would look blankly at me. Later, it proved that I was an ass and she is HoH. She has the most trouble in crowds. At parties and at work, she cannot pick out the voice talking to her from the surrounding "noise."

 

[dereksbicycles]

Try to think, what if a person was working as a mechanic for 40 years? Doctor told this person, your back is bad. It'll get worse and worse if you continue to work as mechanic. You'll have to quit.

So what is this person to do? They worked as mechanic for 40 years!!!

So, if a person lost hearing, that is different. Maybe a bad analogy, but try to understand where people are coming from.

 

[teamint]

Try to think, what if a person was working as a mechanic for 40 years? Doctor told this person, your back is bad. It'll get worse and worse if you continue to work as mechanic. You'll have to quit.

So what is this person to do? They worked as mechanic for 40 years!!!

So, if a person lost hearing, that is different. Maybe a bad analogy, but try to understand where people are coming from.

I think it is a great analogy. I think it might even be worse for people losing hearing, maybe. Because they'd be reminded everyday, multiple times a day, that they couldn't hear.... possibly?

Sidebar: I feel strangely pleased to have a post from the TURBO gent on my thread!

 

[dereksbicycles]

I think it is a great analogy. I think it might even be worse for people losing hearing, maybe. Because they'd be reminded everyday, multiple times a day, that they couldn't hear.... possibly?

Sidebar: I feel strangely pleased to have a post from the TURBO gent on my thread!

Yeah, they would be reminded 7 days a week about their hearing loss. On other hand, mechanic works maybe 5 days a week. Probably be reminded of that 5 days, not 7.

Yeah, it can be hard to be deaf. Try to think---tell a person. You have lost your hearing. You'll need hearing aids. How many people are going to say "oh yes, I do need hearing aids. Let's go get hearing aids" ?

Try to tell a person, ya know, you will need hearing aids to continue your work as a secretary. Wait, I cannot do my job right??? I am fine as is. YOu don't need to tell me what I need or don't need. It's a human nature to think for themselves and not take other people's advices.

 

[teamint]

Try to tell a person, ya know, you will need hearing aids to continue your work as a secretary. Wait, I cannot do my job right??? I am fine as is. YOu don't need to tell me what I need or don't need. It's a human nature to think for themselves and not take other people's advices.

<smile> Don't I know it! I volunteer weekends at a free clinic. Sometimes, I feel like a computer. Don't smoke. Really. And exercise. And eat better. Next patient. Don't smoke... etc. But the place is crazy packed and from their perspective, they never see the same doc twice. So there is no real, trusting, relationship. You know? When there is little trust, there is no reason to consider someone's advice.

 

[Anij]

Wirelessly posted (Blackberry Bold )

Teamint, correct me if I'm wrong, but you seem to have the same problem I do, just on a much more extreme level. You are trying to intellectually box something that cannot be boxed very easily on an intellectual level because it's more emotionally based. You seem to have more trouble than I do with it and for that I really send my sympathy.

If that's the case, then I know you're not trying to be an ass. If I am correct, then you probably frequently find yourself having insulted people and then be genuinely confused on why they got so angry and unable to find ANY reason why they COULD be angry. It happens VERY frequently to me.

Guys, if this is the case it truly is NOT a case of trying to be rude. It's just being too.....clumsy? in the interaction. My husband frequently has to explain to me why something I've said is easily misconstrued even though I can't see how on earth it could possibly mean anything insulting and I'm very genuine in my interest...it's just I want to know..to understand EVERYTHING and I'm not very good at seeing the line where my questioning may become a problem. I also don't realize easily how what I've said can be insensitive because it's a perfectly logical conclusion or question and it's very difficult for me to see the more emotional side of it.

OH MY GOODNESS!! Yes, it is JUST like that ALL THE TIME! Particularly in discussions where the roles are not previously defined. Like, if I am talking to my boss, I am good. If I am talking to a patient, it's good. Because there are roles, you know? And yes, my spouse is frequently my 'interpreter' to the confusing reactions of the world.

What strategies do you use to not be so 'clumsy?' What have you learned to do, especially in non-hierarchical defined role-based conversations? Do you just curb your curiosity? If you are comfortable answering, did either one of your parents have this same problem?

I was absolutely serious about taking formal sensitivity and Disabilties training.

Often learning about these things in a "formal structure" helps people like yourself.

Also - instead of your initial reaction to situations being "that doesn't make sense, they must be misinterpreting the situation" - train yourself to think "this is what they are experiencing, what do I have to do to better understand what they have stated as true".

 

[Steinhauer]

I think I have somehow caused confusion... again. My spouse is HoH and has progressive loss. It occurs in spurts. Sometimes she will plateau for a while, then get worse again. She has no history in the Deaf culture. I asked her about the postings because she is my interpreter in the Emotional world.

I said, essentially: Honey, look at this! They are all mad at me. I just asked a simple question. I never intended to insult anyone. Maybe this was a bad idea. Do you think this is a Deaf/hearing thing and I just stumbled over a language barrier and they don't understand what I am asking?

And she hugged me, and tried to sooth my confusion, and told me that it was likely another example of the 'emotional vs intellectual' chasm that is common place enough in our lives that we've given it slang names. She also admitted that there could be a language issue as well, because I tend to write in a formal logic manner when trying to figure something out on paper. She said that emotional people are trying to express a "jist of something," and do not necessarily think about the words that they use in a formal way. She mentioned that if the people could see me in person that they might not have been so inflamed.

My spouse is great! I am so blessed.

Oh, and she is not on the posts because I'm hogging the lap-top and she is caught up in her newest scifi series. That's what she said, when I asked her. Also, she is much more introverted than I am - she doesn't really reach out in social forums for fun/education. She is waving "hi" from the couch.

As to my motivation to begin with, it wasn't because of her. It is because I have seen a HUGE disparity gap in the health care provisions, health education, etc between Deaf and hearing patients. And this disturbs me. I thought I'd look more into it. I found a few handfuls of peer-reviewed journal articles addressing the subject. Then, I ran out of data. It seemed like a good idea to go directly to the source and try to figure out the "whys" of things. (I know, I know. Don't ask "why." I am trying not to. I am just stating what the intent was.)

I think it disturbs us all. Thank you for looking into it.


News Coverage of Class Certification in Belton v. Georgia « Georgia Deaf Discrimination Case

It isn't just health care provision that has a disparity gap. The Deaf/HoH are easy targets for predatory lawyers/businesses/ad infinitum

 

[green427]

She has no history in the Deaf culture. I asked her about the postings because she is my interpreter in the Emotional world.

This statement confirms what I've suspected all along.....no offense, but are you one of those people that are 'numb' in the emotional department? Do people get offended by you often because you are blunt/direct?

If the answer is 'yes', then it is going to be very difficult for you to comprehend what it is like to be deaf in the hearing world. You see things in black & white, grey areas don't exist. Deafness is in that grey area.

I was born hearing and became deaf at a young age. Being deaf is something we can adapt to over time, the biggest issue with being deaf is the treatment we get by hearing people. The medical community told my parents that I should be put in an institution because I will never be a productive citizen. Even the manager at the local McDonald's told me that I cannot work there because I need to hear in order to flip burgers.

Many of us spend our entire lives proving to hearing people that we can do things, and it takes a toll on us. We have to work twice as hard for half the pay in order to keep our jobs, if we have any.

 

[Bottesini]

Many of us spend our entire lives proving to hearing people that we can do things, and it takes a toll on us. We have to work twice as hard for half the pay in order to keep our jobs, if we have any.

And then after all that stress, if we find a place where we can be with a lot of people like us, little rich kids come in to poke the sore places and then snicker.

I get very , very, tired.

 

[Steinhauer]

And then after all that stress, if we find a place where we can be with a lot of people like us, little rich kids come in to poke the sore places and then snicker.

I get very , very, tired.

exactly.

 

[saywhatkid]

I don't know if I am supposed to respond to this or not. <looking to other poster> Frisky?

No need to. Just felt like speaking for many others; when we see someone with full hearing and a degree stroll in with little idea what we go through, and tell us they want to understand deaf life.

If you want to know what deaf life is like, take two pencils. Put one in each ear. Push them by the end until they meet.

 

[Steinhauer]

No need to. Just felt like speaking for many others; when we see someone with full hearing and a degree stroll in with little idea what we go through, and tell us they want to understand deaf life.

If you want to know what deaf life is like, take two pencils. Put one in each ear. Push them by the end until they meet.

No need to be hostile.