Why the World Hates the US?

[Tousi]

Oh, no; Leibling works for blood money, paid for by "killers of innocents!
Seriously, you are not doing well in this thread. I am embarrassed for you.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

I'm not exactly sure what do you mean "pride/proud" soldier.

I would suggest you to ask Reba for clarify what it mean because she is the one who brought those word up in previous post because I personally never experience with soliders who are pride/proud like this. I only experienced wth soliders for love their jobs and like to serve for their country to support and defense for the people and country. That´s it.

I thought I made myself clear. I'm just saying there are handful of soldiers who joined just for "fun" - a joy of killing and blowing stuff up but ended up being traumatized because it wasn't what they thought as it'd be like in movies.

Yes, I ASK you question either it´s pride/proud soliders, you referring to or not? Did you know the word "pride/proud" mean? Due my experience in real life, soliders do not play rambo and enjoy killing etc like what you mentioned. You mentioned to make it look like that you know some soliders who wants to play rambo or whatever...


The posts, I quoted Reba, not your post... Okay, you ask for it...

Don't we all? that's being human. If they don't feel bad - they must be a psychopath.

Exactly that´s what I am trying to say that I never have any experience with soliders including my and my hubby´s Grandfather and Great grandfather who don´t have any feeling for kill innocent people.

But you do not have any idea what and how the soldiers go thru either!!!

for tell me that you ignored my many posts about my feeling for soliders what and how they had been through dozen of times... All what I see is I waste my time to repeat this to you... All what I see is you and some ADers have no feeling for soliders. That´s it.

Just because you worked with them does not mean you know better. Several of my close friends and family members are patriotic soldiers but does that mean I know better?

Ha, you tell me for a first time that you has a solider friend? I work for almost 23 years and see soliders come and go and know and support their experiences :roll:
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I don't care about them but myself?

It´s Reba´s post, I quoted to, not your post. You confused Reba´s post with your post.

I don't care about my good friend who died in Iraq and came home in a pine box? I don't care about my close friend who barely survived in Afghanistan and came home with PTSD?

Why tell me here for a first time? I am sorry to hear about your friend and hope everything goes smooth for him.

I see.... They are certainly not bragging about it because it wasn't pretty and cool like a Rambo movie.

It´s Reba who brought those word "pride/proud" up in previous post, not me. Because I never experience soliders who brags and play cool for want to go Iraq war for "fun". It´s very disgusitly. If it´s really true what and how some soliders did like that then I would not support them but Thank God, I never experience like this in my life.

Because you use them that almost sound like facts/proof which we had to correct you. For example - you showed us link of U.S. mercenaries indiscriminately killing innocents on the subject of Iraq War relating to our soldiers. Why bring that up? How is that related to our soldiers? Are you putting our soldiers on same level as these dirty mercenaries - indiscriminately killing the innocents?

I only answer and explain why because someone ASK me question. Is it forbidden to show the links and explain why....? The pictures of soliders and innocent people including children´s injuried shows no lie. I really can´t see the sense why you are complaint for when you support soliders and have a solider friend?

But how can you in your good conscience continue to work for an organization that is against your belief? US Army has LONG been killing in every wars for many years - either by retaliation or by special interests! You said - you only support troops just for defense purpose. Well you're in wrong business! You should be working for Swiss Army! You have a very strong opinion in war issue and yet you are working for and paid by OUR MILITARY! It's like a nurse who is very against abortion but works for abortion doctor or a person who does not believe in slaughtering animals but buys steaks! Why did you choose to work for US Army? Why not Swiss Army? Red Cross? They share exactly same value and belief as you. When you work for US Army, you do not have a privilege of saying things like "why kill innocents?" It makes yourself look like a hypocrite.

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Your post make no sense...

Who?

Search thread yourself. We discussed in other thread last week.

FYI - I'm a Buddhist...

So?

I was not referring "Pro-Life" to abortion context but what I meant about that is that you do not support the termination of life by any means. For example - you do not support abortion unless mother's health is in danger. You do not support death penalty for whatever the reason - even Hitler. You do not support war unless for defense purpose. You do not support hunting unless it's for food.

Get it? Your stance is consistent with Pro-Life and largely Pro-Life.You are not a whole-fully pro-choice. I am not a pro-life because I support abortion and death penalty. There's no but like "I support abortion but only if mother's life is in danger." I support abortion and should be left entirely up to woman's choice to do whatever she wants with her womb. You do not - you choose to severely limit it. That is not a good definition of pro-choice. It's more like you are a Pro-Life but little bit of Pro-Choice.

I think you don´t get it. Never mind.

All we're doing is correcting your stance and reasoning but we got offended by your anti-war remarks when you are working for and paid by Army. Mind you - just please be considerate and try not to discuss about anti-war subjects with any soldiers because they can get dishonorable discharged.

Do you think you know everything and your correct, mine wrong? wow.... Interesting... Let you think whatever you want... It doesn´t bother me... Why can´t you and other ADers quote to answer Deafchaser´s post for pulled creator´s link if you think you know everything?

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Constantly referring to American soldiers as killers of innocents is very negative, and not at all respectful.

Very interesting, you call it negative and disrepectful?... Is it negative word when my Grandfather and soliders share their experience what and how they feel bad for kill innocent people with me? I do not see anything negative when they vent/rant their experiences.

Yes, I get it.

Good

It's still confusing though. "Pro-life" refers to human life, so I don't get the connection with hunters killing animals. Oh, well, that's off-topic anyway.

Yes, I know it´s :topic: I only gave Jiro123 the example why I am not full pro-lifer because he think I am a pro-lifer. (I forget to add extra... I support sucide assist.)

I never said that you couldn't express your feelings in this forum. Of course, I can express my feelings in this forum also.

I have no problem for you to express your feeling either but debate in normal way, not take soo personal and accuse false.

I never said that I "support" wars or even the death penalty in all cases every where at all times, and I never posted that I'm against all abortions at all times.

WHAT... you denied it..... Look at your own post... YES you support death penalty... and against abortion. Yes you claim that you are a pro-lifer.

It doesn't bother me that you are against the war in Iraq; you have that right.

Good, next time - debate normal please.

It does bother me that you don't support American soldiers even though they do support you. You say awful things about them "killing innocents" and yet it doesn't bother you to accept a paycheck from them.

I repeat you many times that solider feel bad for kill innocent people including chlidren. I never say anything negative about soliders as killer or murderer. If you still claim or accused me then you are a liar.

You really don't know what you're talking about. How am I caring about myself by defending our soldiers?

Caring? I dont see. If you really care then share and support solider´s experiences... including our Grandfathers, etc. but you doesn´t...

Absolutely not. I see them all kinds of soldiers. Some are physically and/or emotionally traumatized, some are healthy; some don't want to go back, some do.

It´s good that you admit it.

There are a few bad eggs but I certainly don't portray them all as "killers of innocents"!

Me, either. I don´t beleive to insult soliders as killer or murderer.

So you put conditions on your support for them. I see.

Re-read jiro123´s post about rambo, etc... should I support them?

How is defending our service men and women putting down ADers? There are many other ADers who support American military members. I'm not the only one.

Many?

Is it forbidden for me to have an opinion that is different from your opinion?

Yes, it´s not forbidden but I only want to say that we should debate normally, not take our posts personally when we have different opinions.

If you can accuse American soldiers of killing innocents, then I can defend them. I don't believe all our service men and women are killers of innocents. Not at all.

It´s good to see that you use those word "IF".

No. As an American citizen I have the right to address my grievances, and to vote. As a taxpayer, I have the right to complain about how my money is spent.

Exactly... It doesn´t mean that I agree with GErman government all the time when I agree or disagree with them.

It does the same when you have a job, you can agree to disagree either...

I don't label them as chicken or coward.

Good

I didn't post anything against any soldier ADer vent/rant. I didn't complain about them. You must have me confused with someone else.

Yes you have... Go back and re-read your post.

Yes, "pro-choice" is about abortion. I'm not discussing abortion in this thread. That is :topic:

Yes, it´s :topic: but pro-choice is about everything, not just abortion.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Oh, no; Leibling works for blood money, paid for by "killers of innocents!
Seriously, you are not doing well in this thread. I am embarrassed for you.

This is your problem.

 

[Jiro]

Due my experience in real life, soliders do not play rambo and enjoy killing etc like what you mentioned. You mentioned to make it look like that you know some soliders who wants to play rambo or whatever...

Of course not you wouldn't meet a soldier like Rambo. You are not a psychiatrist nor MP nor soldier. Chance is very slim that you'll ever meet one. A soldier who enjoys killing is usually either imprisoned or dishonorably discharged. Are you saying US Army does not have any single soldier who shows no remorse in killing? Remember that soldier who threw a puppy off the cliff? I refuse to post a link about it because it is disgusting and I want to throw him off the cliff myself but not high enough to kill him so I can throw him off again . You can google it for yourself.

Exactly that´s what I am trying to say that I never have any experience with soliders including my and my hubby´s Grandfather and Great grandfather who don´t have any feeling for kill innocent people.

See above. Psychopathic soldier is either imprisoned or discharged. Ever considered the fact that your grandfather do not like to talk about these war stuff in details? They do not want you to know such ugliness. I would never tell such story to my grandchildren or anybody either - only something entertaining for children like the Panzer tank was coming & rumbling and I was hiding in the ditch, holding the anti-tank bazooka.

Ugly stories are best left untold so they can move on with their life.

Ha, you tell me for a first time that you has a solider friend? I work for almost 23 years and see soliders come and go and know and support their experiences :roll:

Don't you remember I posted a couple of threads about my friends? I think last month or so. You see soldiers come and go but I am constantly in touch with them for several years so I know them personally and deeper about their issues.

I am sorry to hear about your friend and hope everything goes smooth for him.

Of course they're fine and can handle their PTSD. You know why? Because they were praised for their duty, not spit on by anti-war protesters for killing innocents. Discussing about killing innocents and illegal war are not the path to healing their traumas. Even though Iraq War is "SUPPOSEDLY" illegal, you should not preach on about it to injured soldiers with PTSD. They'd like to think what they did in Iraq was meaningful - like liberating Iraqis from Saddam and his sons.

for god's sake - most of them lost their life back on home due to extended period of duty and most of them lost their limbs. they do not need to be constantly bombarded with stories like illegal wars and dead innocents. You should be encouraging them and thanking them for their bravery even in "illegal" Iraq War.

It´s Reba who brought those word "pride/proud" up in previous post, not me. Because I never experience soliders who brags and play cool for want to go Iraq war for "fun". It´s very disgusitly. If it´s really true what and how some soliders did like that then I would not support them but Thank God, I never experience like this in my life.

Try being a soldier, psychiatrist, or J.A.G. lawyer and you're bound to find at least one twisted soldier in your life.

I only answer and explain why because someone ASK me question. Is it forbidden to show the links and explain why....? The pictures of soliders and innocent people including children´s injuried shows no lie. I really can´t see the sense why you are complaint for when you support soliders and have a solider friend?

What you're doing is deepening wound for veterans by plastering pictures and articles about illegal war and killing innocents. Nobody wants to relive it twice, 3x, 4x, 5x,..... Do you know why grandfathers do not bother watching Saving Private Ryan or telling stories about it? Their reply was - "uh why? Been there, done that. No thanks."

Do you think you know everything and your correct, mine wrong? wow.... Interesting... Let you think whatever you want... It doesn´t bother me... Why can´t you and other ADers quote to answer Deafchaser´s post for pulled creator´s link if you think you know everything?

It was already answered. Big issue is your hypocrisy and flawed logic.

Very interesting, you call it negative and disrepectful?... Is it negative word when my Grandfather and soliders share their experience what and how they feel bad for kill innocent people with me? I do not see anything negative when they vent/rant their experiences.

Well like I said - we all feel bad about killing innocents. It's part of war. Why are you repeatedly using grandfathers as an example? Was your grandfather ordered to pick up the machine gun and gun down a crowd of innocent people?? If not, I'm sure your grandfather was forced to kill innocents because of extenuating circumstance - perhaps a soldier hiding among the crowds and killing your men and your grandfather was forced to defend for himself by shooting back - even killing the innocents.

You have largely ignored my quotes. Recall my comments about checkpoint horror stories. I'll repost -
"I have heard of checkpoint horror stories where a car carrying a family did not stop as ordered and the soldiers had to open fire on them. they ALSO get traumatized by CONSTANT threat they have to deal with every single second of their life on the ground. They hear stories about a car carrying a family approaching to checkpoint area without slowing down and stopping and the soldiers did not want to shoot at them. Result? it exploded - a suicide bomber using his family as a cover. The soldiers at all checkpoints can't risk that chance.

If you are given an illegal order even directly from your superiors, it is your lawful duty to disobey. We tried German soldiers after WWII who often said "Well, I was just following orders." In my book - that stops being an excuse the seconds you know that those orders are wrong."

I have no problem for you to express your feeling either but debate in normal way, not take soo personal and accuse false.

exactly! When we debate, your own action is what makes your position either credible or not. You do not support war because of killing of innocents and yet you work for US Army and get paid by them - aka blood money. That makes you a hypocrite therefore - you do not get to have any say in this debate.

Would you listen to scientist who believes global warming is a threat by is employed by Exxon-Mobil???? Would you listen to an activist who thinks animal testing is wrong but buys products that are animal-tested???

Exactly... It doesn´t mean that I agree with GErman government all the time when I agree or disagree with them.

It does the same when you have a job, you can agree to disagree either...

Again, you fail to see the point. If you have a strong belief - you should not be working for an organization that is against your belief. For example - a nurse who is against abortion but works at abortion clinic. Get it? She should be working at hospital/clinic that does not perform abortion. Same for you - you should be working for an organization that is not in business of killing like Swiss Army, Amnesty International, Red Cross, etc. There are many ways to help and support the soldiers.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

FYI - I'm a Buddhist...

Did you know Buddhists believe in non-violence?

FYI - I'm a non-religion.

I was not referring "Pro-Life" to abortion context but what I meant about that is that you do not support the termination of life by any means. For example - you do not support abortion unless mother's health is in danger.

Search "Abortion", "Pro-choice" "Pro-life" or whatever under debate sub-forum where we debated for years until few months ago then you will be surprised that my view is the same as you.... I support and respect woman's choice/decision. It's their choice either they want to risk their life to save a fetus's life or not... It's their choice to decide to not keep a child or give a child up for an adoption for good reason. It's about respect on their choice. I only against a woman who abort dozen of times and control abortion as a birth control. That's it.

Next time, not jump on conlusion when I said in previous post that I support woman's abortion choice for risk life which mean everything, not just life-threatning without know my posts at abortion/pro-choice/pro-life debate threads.

You do not support death penalty for whatever the reason

Yes I oppose death penalty for some reasons.

- even Hitler.

What Hitler do with my support?

You do not support war unless for defense purpose. You do not support hunting unless it's for food.

Yes, I'm glad that you get it...

You are not a whole-fully pro-choice.

Check my posts at abortion, pro-choice and pro-life debate threads.

I am not a pro-life because I support abortion and death penalty.

Yes, I know you are not a pro-life because I do not deny for know and accept your posts. So?

There's no but like "I support abortion but only if mother's life is in danger."

This is some of pro-lifers said this, not me.

I support abortion and should be left entirely up to woman's choice to do whatever she wants with her womb. You do not - you choose to severely limit it.

Exactly, you and I have same view on this but I oppose abortion as a birth control that woman abort dozen of times without use sex protection... That's it.

That is not a good definition of pro-choice. It's more like you are a Pro-Life but little bit of Pro-Choice.

Again, check pro-choice, abortion, pro-life threads.

All we're doing is correcting your stance and reasoning

Correct? I tried to tell you that Saddam has no WMD but you kept on deny it... Who correct?

CIA’s final report: No WMD found in Iraq - Conflict in Iraq - MSNBC.com

but we got offended by your anti-war remarks

Wrong, I answered someone's question about anti-war groups and then explain why with links. The original pictures of injuried soliders and innocent people including children shows why anti-war groups are against war.

Mind you - just please be considerate and try not to discuss about anti-war subjects with any soldiers because they can get dishonorable discharged.

Mind you - just please be considerate and try not to discuss about chicken/coward/idots/psychopath/more insult subjects with any soliders who consider Iraq war as an illegal war and refuse to go war because they can get dishonorable discharged.

http://www.alldeaf.com/war-political-news/53447-soldier-trial-iraq-refusal.html

Again, why can't you answer dreamchaser's post and pulled florencegale182's post when you think you know everything correct?

 

[Jiro]

Did you know Buddhists believe in non-violence?

Buddhists also believe in logic and cause & effect. Yours defies the logic. Buddha is confused...

Mind you - just please be considerate and try not to discuss about chicken/coward/idots/psychopath/more insult subjects with any soliders who consider Iraq war as an illegal war and refuse to go war because they can get dishonorable discharged.

I get the privilege of discussing about it because:
1. they were honorably discharged
2. I do not collect blood money

btw - Buddha is confused again... Your statement does not make any sense at all. Why do not discuss with soldiers who considered Iraq War as an illegal and refuse to go to war because they can get dishonorable discharged?? Do you realize that by refusing to go to war, you're either imprisoned or dishonorably discharged??

Again, why can't you answer dreamchaser's post and pulled florencegale182's post when you think you know everything correct?

Again I'll repost my answer - It was already answered. Big issue is your hypocrisy and flawed logic.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Of course not you wouldn't meet a soldier like Rambo. You are not a psychiatrist nor MP nor soldier. Chance is very slim that you'll ever meet one.

It's good to know that chance is very slim. Thank God, I never experience for meet a solider like Rambo.

A soldier who enjoys killing is usually either imprisoned or dishonorably discharged.

This is a disguistly.

Are you saying US Army does not have any single soldier who shows no remorse in killing?

I mean is experience in real life, not learn from medias, video, etc. to negative about soliders. Yes, I know a lot negative things about soliders thru medias, videos, etc. but I am trying to say that I never experience to meet soliders like that in real life... Maybe some I never know in real life... good thing, that I didn't know them.

Remember that soldier who threw a puppy off the cliff? I refuse to post a link about it because it is disgusting and I want to throw him off the cliff myself but not high enough to kill him so I can throw him off again . You can google it for yourself.

Not necassary because someone created a thread few months ago. It me totally. I posted there.

See above. Psychopathic soldier is either imprisoned or discharged. Ever considered the fact that your grandfather do not like to talk about these war stuff in details? They do not want you to know such ugliness. I would never tell such story to my grandchildren or anybody either - only something entertaining for children like the Panzer tank was coming & rumbling and I was hiding in the ditch, holding the anti-tank bazooka.

Ugly stories are best left untold so they can move on with their life.

My Grandfather told us the WWII story. It goes him good to have someone to listen his talk. We supported him and listen his story. I would not hide if my children ask for my experience... My hubby's step-grandfather and uncle told us the story about WWII, too. Yes, they repeated their experiences to us for years... We tell the truth if our children want to know the story of WWI and WWII... We want them to learn from us, not learn from someone else. My principal and teachers at school also told us the WWII story what and how they experienced too... They opened because we ask them for and want to listen their story. I am surprised that it's American way for not want to open talk to their children and share their experience stories with their children. Okay, I respect their view which we see different as you.

Don't you remember I posted a couple of threads about my friends? I think last month or so. You see soldiers come and go but I am constantly in touch with them for several years so I know them personally and deeper about their issues.

No, I do not remember your posts in several threads about your friends. Now I know from your post here for a first time. All what I want to say is wish them well and everything goes smooth for them.

Of course they're fine and can handle their PTSD. You know why? Because they were praised for their duty,

It's good to know that they are fine and able to handle their PTSD but Remember, each person is different.

not spit on by anti-war protesters for killing innocents. Discussing about killing innocents and illegal war are not the path to healing their traumas.

FYI - I am not an anti-war protester. I guess they protest against Bush as a killer, hilter, murder, etc. for send soliders to Iraq war because they label Bush as "George Bush kills American soldiers". It shows that anti-war protesters care about soliders and blame Bush. I am sorry if you misinterpreted or misunderstood anti-war groups' view.

Even though Iraq War is "SUPPOSEDLY" illegal, you should not preach on about it to injured soldiers with PTSD.

Accord soliders and civillian including policitals who consider Iraq war as an illegal war. I look both side until I agree with them that it's an illegal war because Saddam do not have WMD.

They'd like to think what they did in Iraq was meaningful - like liberating Iraqis from Saddam and his sons.

Yes I aware it.

for god's sake - most of them lost their life back on home due to extended period of duty and most of them lost their limbs. they do not need to be constantly bombarded with stories like illegal wars and dead innocents. You should be encouraging them and thanking them for their bravery even in "illegal" Iraq War.

It's really very sad to force soliders to go Iraq war when they don't want and know it's wrong. You should read some solider ADer's experiences at other thread.

Try being a soldier, psychiatrist, or J.A.G. lawyer and you're bound to find at least one twisted soldier in your life.

Yes I aware that I am not a solider but experience their feeling... That's it.

What you're doing is deepening wound for veterans by plastering pictures and articles about illegal war and killing innocents. Nobody wants to relive it twice, 3x, 4x, 5x,.....

This is a fact, we have to face the ugly histories sometimes what and how Hilter did to his people, jewish, etc... Saddam to his people, etc..., Russians did to their people, Salin to his people, etc. etc. also black slaves history, etc. Bush did to his people, etc. etc. We have to face the truth... You cannot hide the truth from everyone...

Do you know why grandfathers do not bother watching Saving Private Ryan or telling stories about it? Their reply was - "uh why? Been there, done that. No thanks."

Simple is: they experienced war and accept the fact that it's history and move on. They do not stop us to watch TV over war issues ...why? because they accept it as a history and know that we have the right to know the truth...

It was already answered. Big issue is your hypocrisy and flawed logic.

You really has no idea that we know a lot about war issues... I would suggest you to re-read Webexplorer's post and dreamchaser's post and also thread creator's post, too. We all know the truth but you? I do feel that you do not know enough... You as a Buddhist ... Who hypocrisy? :roll:

Well like I said - we all feel bad about killing innocents. It's part of war.

Yes I aware and accept it when I personally oppose war.

Why are you repeatedly using grandfathers as an example?

Because you don't know what and how soliders feel about kill the innocnets... .I show you what I know their feeling..

Was your grandfather ordered to pick up the machine gun and gun down a crowd of innocent people?? If not, I'm sure your grandfather was forced to kill innocents because of extenuating circumstance - perhaps a soldier hiding among the crowds and killing your men and your grandfather was forced to defend for himself by shooting back - even killing the innocents.

It make no difference but they STILL feeling bad... period. I know they are not intended to hurt/kill innocent people including children... but it just happens. I told Grandfather and soliders the same thing.

You have largely ignored my quotes. Recall my comments about checkpoint horror stories. I'll repost -
"I have heard of checkpoint horror stories where a car carrying a family did not stop as ordered and the soldiers had to open fire on them. they ALSO get traumatized by CONSTANT threat they have to deal with every single second of their life on the ground. They hear stories about a car carrying a family approaching to checkpoint area without slowing down and stopping and the soldiers did not want to shoot at them. Result? it exploded - a suicide bomber using his family as a cover. The soldiers at all checkpoints can't risk that chance.

I do not ignore it. Like what I said before it's happens....that's why I am not for war becuase it would risk solider and innocent people including children's life. Like what I say before to leave other countries alone... It would create more problem if we do not leave other countries alone. See, more soliders and innocent people killed after Saddam's execution... What is this... ? *shake my head*

If you are given an illegal order even directly from your superiors, it is your lawful duty to disobey. We tried German soldiers after WWII who often said "Well, I was just following orders." In my book - that stops being an excuse the seconds you know that those orders are wrong."

Yes, I already explained in previous posts with links. Yes they follow their agreement until they decided for want to resign army... week to month before their resign, suddenly they were force to sign the extend agreement contract. They said no to sign to extend the agreement... Guess what they threaten soliders... I don't blame soliders for lost their respect for that. Many soliders lost their homes after return from war... What is this? You support Government for law? I support soliders and their rights.

exactly! When we debate, your own action is what makes your position either credible or not. You do not support war because of killing of innocents and yet you work for US Army and get paid by them - aka blood money. That makes you a hypocrite therefore - you do not get to have any say in this debate.

It doesn't mean that I MUST agree all the time because I work under US Government. I can disagree with US Government if I feel like to. I will never beleive if you said that you must agree with US Government all the time because you work for them or live in America. We are human being who can agree to disagree with our Government, job, etc. It do not make me hypocrite when I want to disagree something. :roll: It would make me hypocrite if I agree with war and against for kill inncoent which I doesn't. Is it not hard?

Would you listen to scientist who believes global warming is a threat by is employed by Exxon-Mobil???? Would you listen to an activist who thinks animal testing is wrong but buys products that are animal-tested???

I accept and listen cons/pro on both sides until I can agree to disagree something and explain why I agree or disagree in manner way instead of insult them and label them negative names. It's each person's choice for want to buy products with animal-tested or not. There're products with or without animal-tested. I posted my view over animal-tested at other thread.

Again, you fail to see the point. If you have a strong belief - you should not be working for an organization that is against your belief. For example - a nurse who is against abortion but works at abortion clinic. Get it? She should be working at hospital/clinic that does not perform abortion. Same for you - you should be working for an organization that is not in business of killing like Swiss Army, Amnesty International, Red Cross, etc. There are many ways to help and support the soldiers.

:roll:

 

[Liebling:-)))]

[

QUOTE=jiro123;1008402]Buddhists also believe in logic and cause & effect. Yours defies the logic. Buddha is confused...

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I get the privilege of discussing about it because:
1. they were honorably discharged
2. I do not collect blood money

btw - Buddha is confused again... Your statement does not make any sense at all. Why do not discuss with soldiers who considered Iraq War as an illegal and refuse to go to war because they can get dishonorable discharged?? Do you realize that by refusing to go to war, you're either imprisoned or dishonorably discharged??

I simple pasted your post to answer because your post made no sense in first place.

Again I'll repost my answer - It was already answered. Big issue is your hypocrisy and flawed logic.

Nope, It's your hypocrisy and flawed logic because you can't answer their posts... and denied the links about UN and CIA over WMD...

 

[Jiro]

FYI - I am not an anti-war protester. I guess they protest against Bush as a killer, hilter, murder, etc. for send soliders to Iraq war because they label Bush as "George Bush kills American soldiers". It shows that anti-war protesters care about soliders and blame Bush. I am sorry if you misinterpreted or misunderstood anti-war groups' view.

You misunderstood me. I said your VIEW is anti-war. I did not say you are anti-war protester.

Accord soliders and civillian including policitals who consider Iraq war as an illegal war. I look both side until I agree with them that it's an illegal war because Saddam do not have WMD.

I have repeatedly said you are a civilian. I'm assuming you have been discussing about "illegal war" and any anti-war talk with soldiers WHILE ON DUTY. By doing that, for soldiers - it's a treason or they may be subjected to violations of military laws. Please do yourself a favor and stop talking about war issues with soldiers and your coworkers WHILE ON DUTY. Feel free to discuss about it with them during off-duty at some bars.

It's really very sad to force soliders to go Iraq war when they don't want and know it's wrong. You should read some solider ADer's experiences at other thread.

Soldiers do not need to know what's right or wrong. They go where they're ordered to go by Command in Chief. PERIOD. But it is their duty to disobey the unlawful orders such as being ordered to kill the innocents - a clear violation of Geneva Convention and it's a Crime Against Humanity.

This is a fact, we have to face the ugly histories sometimes what and how Hilter did to his people, jewish, etc... Saddam to his people, etc..., Russians did to their people, Salin to his people, etc. etc. also black slaves history, etc. Bush did to his people, etc. etc. We have to face the truth... You cannot hide the truth from everyone...

Difference is - Hitler.... Saddam.... Russians.... Stalin.... Black Slaves.... these have been exhaustively researched. Iraq War is not. Wait several years and we can come back to it. We need to review all classified documents that will be eventually released to public in few or several years. I know it is getting obvious that this Iraq War is illegal and I have repeatedly said that I'd like nothing more than to see President Bush and some people be held on trial for war crimes. But for now - I'm withholding my judgment.

Yes I aware and accept it when I personally oppose war.

Like what I said before it's happens....that's why I am not for war becuase it would risk solider and innocent people including children's life. Like what I say before to leave other countries alone... It would create more problem if we do not leave other countries alone. See, more soliders and innocent people killed after Saddam's execution... What is this... ? *shake my head*

Exactly! You should not be working for US Army. US Army = WAR BUSINESS. Not Diary Queen business.

Yes, I already explained in previous posts with links. Yes they follow their agreement until they decided for want to resign army... week to month before their resign, suddenly they were force to sign the extend agreement contract. They said no to sign to extend the agreement... Guess what they threaten soliders... I don't blame soliders for lost their respect for that. Many soliders lost their homes after return from war... What is this? You support Government for law? I support soliders and their rights.

Ever heard of STOP-LOSS POLICY? You think you're signing a contract with military like it's a business company where you give 2-weeks notice and simply quit whenever it pleases you? :roll:

It doesn't mean that I MUST agree all the time because I work under US Government. I can disagree with US Government if I feel like to. I will never beleive if you said that you must agree with US Government all the time because you work for them or live in America. We are human being who can agree to disagree with our Government, job, etc. It do not make me hypocrite when I want to disagree something. :roll: It would make me hypocrite if I agree with war and against for kill inncoent which I doesn't. Is it not hard?

It's each person's choice for want to buy products with animal-tested or not. There're products with or without animal-tested. I posted my view over animal-tested at other thread.

No no no you misunderstood. Yes it is up to each CONSUMER'S choice to buy whatever they want. BUT when a person speak against something, they should stick to it. An activist speaking against animal testing SHOULD NOT BUY animal-tested products. But if that activist BUYS animal-tested products anyway.... well that's a hypocrite. CORRECT?

You are strongly preaching on that our military should be used only for defense purpose. Since when is the last time the US Army's sole purpose is to sit and defend our country? We are always in war with any nations, any groups most of time - regardless of reason. Chance is you won't know half of time because it's either classified or black ops.

Nope, It's your hypocrisy and flawed logic because you can't answer their posts... and denied the links about UN and CIA over WMD...

I did not deny it. I'm not concerned with WMD or such matters for now. Big issue is your hypocrisy and flawed logic.

 

[Jiro]

It would create more problem if we do not leave other countries alone.

Let's take a YES/NO Questionnaire:

1. Do you support our military action against Yugoslavia?
2. Do you support our military action against Somalia?
3. Do you support our military action against Afghanistan?
4. Do you support our military action against Philippines' terrorist groups?
5. Do you support any or all above even if it costs some innocent lives?

 

[~SG~]

Mod's Note:

This thread has gone back to heated debate. It is closed for time being for cooling down time.