Why so many signing systems?

Daredevel7 said:
Let me back up. By "spoken", I meant a way of communicating via visual/auditory/tactile means. That's why I put quotes around "spoken". I couldn't think of a word for a language that is communicated between two people without writing. Is there a word for that?

I was just saying that if MCE is solely for teaching English and not for communication in general, I don't see the purpose of using the signs to show what word it is, when you can just show a picture. The only reason I can think of is that the signs are taught before they can read, so that they can communicate before reading. But this would mean MCE would be used for communicating! And judging by the posts on this thread so far, seems like MCE is not that great for communicating.
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Perhaps part of the problem is that there is not a picture for every word in the English language (and probably ASL too).
 
shel90 said:
Nah, I dont think RD is saying that..I think he is wondering why are there so many different signing systems with different signs for one word. I have to agree with him..sometimes, I wonder why so many. I prefer to keep it simple..ASL and English.
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Thank you Shel, that is exactly what I am saying. Why so many different signs for the same word. It's confusing to me and I would have to belive for a child trying to learn its confusing as well.
 
faire_jour said:
T-h-e dog i-s go-i-n-g t-o t-h-e store. H-e thinks i-t i-s funny. Where i-s t-h-a-t c-u-c-u-m-b-e-r?

Exhausting.
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There are ASL signs for the word going, that, it, and cucumber.

That's why it is critical that the children are constantly exposed to English in print.
 
shel90 said:
There are ASL signs for the word going, that, it, and cucumber.

That's why it is critical that the children are constantly exposed to English in print.
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Hmmm, I was specifically told by my Deaf mentors that there were no signs for those words (except go).
 
faire_jour said:
Hmmm, I was specifically told by my Deaf mentors that there were no signs for those words (except go).
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It is all in the hand movement..

Maybe in your area, there are no signs for it but here in MD, there are.
 
faire_jour said:
T-h-e dog i-s go-i-n-g t-o t-h-e store. H-e thinks i-t i-s funny. Where i-s t-h-a-t c-u-c-u-m-b-e-r?

Exhausting.
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Fingerspelling the "the" and "is" is no more cumbersome than adding the artificial signs or markers. "Is" has a sign, "he"can be demonstrated in sign, "that" has a sign, "going" has a sign and "cucumber" has a sign. If you are fingerspelling all those words, then I would suggest you consult a good ASL dictionary. It isn't necessary.
 
shel90 said:
It is all in the hand movement..

Maybe in your area, there are no signs for it but here in MD, there are.
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Yes, one can say "go", "go to" or "going" just by altering the movement.
 
Does anyone know if ASL is still evolving and adding new signs or has it been pretty much static?
 
rockdrummer said:
Does anyone know if ASL is still evolving and adding new signs or has it been pretty much static?
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even though I'm not fluent in ASL but since ASL is a complete language with its own syntax and grammar..... I would say it's same as any spoken language - it's constantly evolving with new slang, words, and style - like oldspeak and newspeak
 
Jiro said:
even though I'm not fluent in ASL but since ASL is a complete language with its own syntax and grammar..... I would say it's same as any spoken language - it's constantly evolving with new slang, words, and style - like oldspeak and newspeak
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I would hope so but where can one go that is similar to the English Dictionary to see the new signs? I know about aslpro.com and signingsavvy etc but there are even different signs for the same word between those two sites. signingsavvy claims to be ASL but I think there are some SEE signs in there. The sign for Grass is a case in point.
 
That's why I think the concept of "Pure ASL" is pure bunk.

I've heard many people claim that they sign perfect ASL or correct ASL. Yet, they all sign differently from each other. Some people tell me that I sign good ASL, while some others tell me that my ASL is wrong.

Who's right? Who's wrong?

I don't think it really matters... as long as it's understandable. If they can understand me, that's all I care about. :)
 
VamPyroX said:
That's why I think the concept of "Pure ASL" is pure bunk.

I've heard many people claim that they sign perfect ASL or correct ASL. Yet, they all sign differently from each other. Some people tell me that I sign good ASL, while some others tell me that my ASL is wrong.

Who's right? Who's wrong?

I don't think it really matters... as long as it's understandable. If they can understand me, that's all I care about. :)
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Makes sense but I would think in an educational setting consistency would be key to success.
 
rockdrummer said:
Makes sense but I would think in an educational setting consistency would be key to success.
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yes - only for basic part.... such as proper grammar, syntax, letters, etc. to build the basic foundation first. same with any language.

after that mastering the basic foundation of the language... now it's up to you to adapt it to your style. My English style is very different from foreigner's English so there's a communication barrier. I can simply and quickly switch to their level of English. one with strong ASL does same for me since my ASL is basic
 
Jiro said:
yes - only for basic part.... such as proper grammar, syntax, letters, etc. to build the basic foundation first. same with any language.

after that mastering the basic foundation of the language... now it's up to you to adapt it to your style. My English style is very different from foreigner's English so there's a communication barrier. I can simply and quickly switch to their level of English. one with strong ASL does same for me since my ASL is basic
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That's right.

I like to think of ASL like AIM.

When we type on AIM, we use slang, abbreviations, etc. When we type in class, we use proper spelling and grammar.

When we use ASL, we follow ASL structure. When we are in school, we use SEE. ;)
 
If you want "consistency"... use contact sign or PSE. People seems to forget there is a vast difference between written and spoken English. A well-spoken person can still have weak English skills if they don't read or write often.

Pidgin Signed English is a natural occurrence when ASL and English blend together and has been old as ASL itself and will be around as long English-speakers continue to learn ASL. SEE, on the other hand, is an artificial system applying the English grammar to sign language like initalising the signs, prefixes and suffixes and only fix one sign per word.

For my education in post-secondary, I am requesting an ASL interpreter who can use English syntax. SEE is different from English-based ASL (aka PSE.) If the interpreter is a SEE user, I am going to take it up with the board.
 
souggy said:
If you want "consistency"... use contact sign or PSE. People seems to forget there is a vast difference between written and spoken English. A well-spoken person can still have weak English skills if they don't read or write often.

Pidgin Signed English is a natural occurrence when ASL and English blend together and has been old as ASL itself and will be around as long English-speakers continue to learn ASL. SEE, on the other hand, is an artificial system applying the English grammar to sign language like initalising the signs, prefixes and suffixes and only fix one sign per word.

For my education in post-secondary, I am requesting an ASL interpreter who can use English syntax. SEE is different from English-based ASL (aka PSE.) If the interpreter is a SEE user, I am going to take it up with the board.
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That's what I used when I was at RIT... PSE interpreters. :)
 
souggy said:
If you want "consistency"... use contact sign or PSE. People seems to forget there is a vast difference between written and spoken English. A well-spoken person can still have weak English skills if they don't read or write often.

Pidgin Signed English is a natural occurrence when ASL and English blend together and has been old as ASL itself and will be around as long English-speakers continue to learn ASL. SEE, on the other hand, is an artificial system applying the English grammar to sign language like initalising the signs, prefixes and suffixes and only fix one sign per word.

For my education in post-secondary, I am requesting an ASL interpreter who can use English syntax. SEE is different from English-based ASL (aka PSE.) If the interpreter is a SEE user, I am going to take it up with the board.
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I am talking about consistancy in an educational setting where a child is learning their native language. I am no expert but I would have to imagine that if you are not consistent in your teaching and your communication with the child that may cause confusion. I know that if my English teachers taught me how to read and write one way but they did not follow those rules when communicating or if they used different words for the same meaning, it would confuse me.
 
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