Why should deaf people be around hearing people instead of O N L Y deaf people

[rjr2006]

Dear AllDeaf,
I have been around hearing people for a long time since I was born. I don't see many deaf people around my town and that I had to figure out ways to live around hearing people. Yet, I know that schools for the deaf still exist, however, I believe that it would be better if deaf students go to local public schools and be with hearing students. Also, it is very important for deaf communities to be around hearing people, instead of being only with deaf people! Deaf people needs to stop being stuck with deaf people and begin to come out of deaf world then learn how to get along with hearing people and be open to other people with disabilities. If the interpreters do not show up for classes, that is how public K-12 schools and colleges work and deaf people can get notes from other students. I went through the same thing and I did it and deafness didn't stop me. I also believe that SIGNED EXACT ENGLISH is better for deaf people to learn how to read and write, and SIGNED EXACT ENGLISH is just like spoken English. Hearing people speak ENGLISH and deaf people use SIGNED EXACT ENGLISH to communicate properly with hearing people.

I read Vampy's posts and I noticed that he said that NTID students complain about English skills and that he said that deaf people do not get along with hearing people, just because deaf people just want to be with deaf people only! RIT is there for D/HH to learn and share culture with hearing students, instead of fighting with hearing students. If you have any further questions, please don't hesitate to ask me or Vampy.

You can debate here, and if you are against what I said, that is fine because I was raised in hearing world.

Sincerely,
RJR2006

 

[gnulinuxman]

I am a hearing person who is fluent in ASL, and I am involved with both deaf and hearing people. I believe that more hearing people should learn to sign, which would make it easier for more deaf people to socialize with hearing people. Since I sign, I have no problems with culturally Deaf people. The problem is that hearing people don't want to learn to sign often, which makes it harder for deaf signers to communicate with hearing people.

I don't think forced oralism is the answer, and I would only put a deaf kid in a public school if the school had a special deaf education program that was in ASL.

 

[VamPyroX]

I agree with you.

I was raised in both hearing and deaf world. I went to CID (Central Institute for the Deaf). At that time, CID was an oral school where they don't use signs... just teach you how to talk for yourself instead.

By age 5, I moved to Texas. This was a new experience for me because the school I went to was a mainstream school. Even though they had K to 6, they had 14 classes. Yep, hearing and deaf class for each grade level. I was a bit overwhelmed at K-level because everyone else signed and I didn't. I slowly learned how to sign. By 3rd grade, I was taking a couple hearing classes (with interpreters, of course). By 8th grade, I was taking all hearing classes.

There were some students who complained that they should not be taking hearing classes. Some of them even complained that if they were taking hearing classes, they should be given some flexibility because they were deaf. As a result, a lot of deaf students failed their classes... but still passed because their grades were "modified" by the deaf department. What happens next? 3/4 of the deaf students who graduate from my high school are 3rd grade math, reading, and writing. I graduated with 1/4 of the deaf students.

Now, those 3/4 deaf students blame the school for not treating them like hearing students. :roll:

 

[Lil_country_gal]

I was rasied hearing and still act hearing. I have gone to public school my whole life although i dont' sign exact english my english skills are really good because i was raised as if i was hearing i had to struggle alittle more in school but i'm making my way through

 

[rjr2006]

I agree with you.

I was raised in both hearing and deaf world. I went to CID (Central Institute for the Deaf). At that time, CID was an oral school where they don't use signs... just teach you how to talk for yourself instead.

By age 5, I moved to Texas. This was a new experience for me because the school I went to was a mainstream school. Even though they had K to 6, they had 14 classes. Yep, hearing and deaf class for each grade level. I was a bit overwhelmed at K-level because everyone else signed and I didn't. I slowly learned how to sign. By 3rd grade, I was taking a couple hearing classes (with interpreters, of course). By 8th grade, I was taking all hearing classes.

There were some students who complained that they should not be taking hearing classes. Some of them even complained that if they were taking hearing classes, they should be given some flexibility because they were deaf. As a result, a lot of deaf students failed their classes... but still passed because their grades were "modified" by the deaf department. What happens next? 3/4 of the deaf students who graduate from my high school are 3rd grade math, reading, and writing. I graduated with 1/4 of the deaf students.

Now, those 3/4 deaf students blame the school for not treating them like hearing students. :roll:

Yeah, well, when D/HH enter higher education, it would be much harder for them because they don't want to be challenged in mainstreamed classes. I stood up for myself to move up to harder English class when I was a sophomore in high school.The deaf education department disagreed with me so I got rid of deaf education and worked my butt off in harder English!

 

[rjr2006]

I was rasied hearing and still act hearing. I have gone to public school my whole life although i dont' sign exact english my english skills are really good because i was raised as if i was hearing i had to struggle alittle more in school but i'm making my way through

Hint: you might want to try reading classes in high school and they were very helpful even though they didn't know what they were doing with a deaf student like me

 

[jillio]

I agree with you.

I was raised in both hearing and deaf world. I went to CID (Central Institute for the Deaf). At that time, CID was an oral school where they don't use signs... just teach you how to talk for yourself instead.

By age 5, I moved to Texas. This was a new experience for me because the school I went to was a mainstream school. Even though they had K to 6, they had 14 classes. Yep, hearing and deaf class for each grade level. I was a bit overwhelmed at K-level because everyone else signed and I didn't. I slowly learned how to sign. By 3rd grade, I was taking a couple hearing classes (with interpreters, of course). By 8th grade, I was taking all hearing classes.

There were some students who complained that they should not be taking hearing classes. Some of them even complained that if they were taking hearing classes, they should be given some flexibility because they were deaf. As a result, a lot of deaf students failed their classes... but still passed because their grades were "modified" by the deaf department. What happens next? 3/4 of the deaf students who graduate from my high school are 3rd grade math, reading, and writing. I graduated with 1/4 of the deaf students.

Now, those 3/4 deaf students blame the school for not treating them like hearing students. :roll:

I don't mean to be rude, but you really should spend some time reading about the history of Deaf education. Oralism, and particularly forced oralism, was directly responsible for the decline in the education of deaf students. When you speak of education, you have to address not only language differences, but the way those language differences affect the cognitive processing of the individual. I started by son off in a mainstreamed school when he was in kindergarten. That was when I was very naive and didn't understand all that was involved. By the time he was in the 4th grade, I took the school system to court to force them to transfer him to a school for the deaf. I know I made the right decision, and I know he received a better education and is much more well adjusted as a result. He was allowed to be who he was, and learn in the way that was natural for him, rather than being forced into the mold of what the hearing world expected him to be. He is a complete Deaf person, not a broken hearing person.

 

[rjr2006]

I don't mean to be rude, but you really should spend some time reading about the history of Deaf education. Oralism, and particularly forced oralism, was directly responsible for the decline in the education of deaf students. When you speak of education, you have to address not only language differences, but the way those language differences affect the cognitive processing of the individual. I started by son off in a mainstreamed school when he was in kindergarten. That was when I was very naive and didn't understand all that was involved. By the time he was in the 4th grade, I took the school system to court to force them to transfer him to a school for the deaf. I know I made the right decision, and I know he received a better education and is much more well adjusted as a result. He was allowed to be who he was, and learn in the way that was natural for him, rather than being forced into the mold of what the hearing world expected him to be. He is a complete Deaf person, not a broken hearing person.

I understand what you mean, but hearing people DO want to learn from deaf ppl, and deaf people needs to allow hearing people to learn about deaf heritage instead of getting into fights with hearing students like Vampy mentioned before.

 

[deafdyke]

however, I believe that it would be better if deaf students go to local public schools and be with hearing students. Also, it is very important for deaf communities to be around hearing people, instead of being only with deaf people! Deaf people needs to stop being stuck with deaf people and begin to come out of deaf world then learn how to get along with hearing people and be open to other people with disabilities.

I think it depends. I see too many dhh kids falling through the cracks at their public schools. Too many public schools have just general special ed services....that's great for those who just need very minmal accomondations, but I mean back when I was little my parents had to kick and scream for any accomondations....I didn't even get a notetaker til I was in high school!!!!
I definitly think that a seperatist mentality is dumb, but I also think that there's something to be said for having our very own communuity. Chinese people have their Chinatowns, blacks have their Harlems, and so on and so on......why is it so difficult to conecieve of the fact that maybe just maybe there's nothing wrong with having a place of our own? After all, it's very rare that a dhh kid feels totally and completly comfortable in the hearing world.

 

[rjr2006]

I think it depends. I see too many dhh kids falling through the cracks at their public schools. Too many public schools have just general special ed services....that's great for those who just need very minmal accomondations, but I mean back when I was little my parents had to kick and scream for any accomondations....I didn't even get a notetaker til I was in high school!!!!
I definitly think that a seperatist mentality is dumb, but I also think that there's something to be said for having our very own communuity. Chinese people have their Chinatowns, blacks have their Harlems, and so on and so on......why is it so difficult to conecieve of the fact that maybe just maybe there's nothing wrong with having a place of our own? After all, it's very rare that a dhh kid feels totally and completly comfortable in the hearing world.

I feel comfortable with the hearing world, and I rarely see DHH in my town. Since you just mentioned that it is rare for a dhh kid to feel comfortable with hearing world, he/s should be open to new things and opportunities in the hearing world.

 

[Cheri]

I agree too,

You know when I was younger some hearing students were surprised at the fact that I am deaf and can speak, They think that people who can't seem to hear anything can speak. They thought it was way impossible. Deaf people can certainly learn spoken speech But, It may not be perfect, but it would be understandable enough to communicate with hearing people. But, it is a very difficult task. I don't think Deaf people should be force to dependent on speech only. ASL should be included as well.

 

[rjr2006]

I agree too,

You know when I was younger some hearing students were surprised at the fact that I am deaf and can speak, They think that people who can't seem to hear anything can speak. They thought it was way impossible. Deaf people can certainly learn spoken speech But, It may not be perfect, but it would be understandable enough to communicate with hearing people. But, it is a very difficult task. I don't think Deaf people should be force to dependent on speech only. ASL should be included as well.

I can speak some orally, but I depend on communication device in case.

 

[Angel]

I agree, I've always wanted to try anything really, I'm not going to let my own deafness stop me from doing what I can do, I can talk, sign, even work like hearing folks, I'm not going to a school where it's all for the deaf people, I want to be around ALL people no matter whether they're deaf, hearing, blind etc etc....It's all about fitting in, and be around people of all kinds...

Some hearing folks were surprise I could actually speak, even some thinks it's impossible like Cheri said, but they don't give us a chance to prove that to them just like finding jobs, sometimes people look at us the wrong way, then giving us chances, maybe that could be the reason why some deaf folks avoid being around some hearing people, not that I blame them, but I do think it goes both ways, I mean someone got to stand up and say I can do it!...

 

[KiStY]

I was born full hearing until i was about 8 when a op i had got infected and as a result i lost most of my hearing in one ear and although i didnt need to sign and at the time i didnt think i needed to go to a school for deaf children, I went.
In Australia, there no schools that i know of that just have deaf kids, they are mixed in with the hearing with a few rooms in primary school for kids to learn the, how should i say it, the stuff we didnt understand fully and to learn to sign and how to comicate with the hearing.
In High school, at least my high school, it had support techers for the deaf, as well as, the blind, the "slow", well basicly all disabilies.

I knew 8 fully deaf kids well and there hearing friends learnt to sign in high school, because there was a class you could take in the lunch hour.

I think that my education is great even if i cant spell to well its not because i am hearing impaired, or deaf, its because not everyone can spell even the hearing kids have trouble with it. lol

 

[ismi]

I definitly think that a seperatist mentality is dumb, but I also think that there's something to be said for having our very own communuity. Chinese people have their Chinatowns, blacks have their Harlems, and so on and so on......why is it so difficult to conecieve of the fact that maybe just maybe there's nothing wrong with having a place of our own? After all, it's very rare that a dhh kid feels totally and completly comfortable in the hearing world.

There's no reason not to socialize with similar people; but you'll note that one of the major problems in Chinatowns and Harlems around the country is economic and political disempowerment - most likely as a result of not reaching out to mainstream society (not entirely, mind you - I'm not trying to paint a Horatio Alger picture here - but I do think it's a factor).

 

[deafdyke]

I feel comfortable with the hearing world

Yeah, but 100% comfortable? I have oral skills and was mainstreamed, yet I don't feel totally comfortable with hearing society. I still have social issues, and am always afraid that hearies won't undy me.

 

[sr171soars]

Yeah, but 100% comfortable? I have oral skills and was mainstreamed, yet I don't feel totally comfortable with hearing society. I still have social issues, and am always afraid that hearies won't undy me.

That is a good point! One's comfort factor does play alot into which way a person gravitates. Like rjr I'm totally comfortable in the hearing world. I can remember that I had alot to learn about the hearing world when I was growing up. It wasn't until I was in college that everything clicked for me.

 

[Rose Immortal]

Yeah, but 100% comfortable? I have oral skills and was mainstreamed, yet I don't feel totally comfortable with hearing society. I still have social issues, and am always afraid that hearies won't undy me.

I hope too many people haven't made fun. If they do, then they're just dickheads and I don't think they DESERVE to be in the loop anyway. If that kind of person gets obnoxious about going, "Huh?" I'd just tell them it was about them and walk away. Leave 'em nice and paranoid.

 

[Heath]

I was born in a hearing family and I am the only Deaf one in the family. I think I would do better at NTID than at Gallaudet because Gallaudet is very Deaf Power , very Deaf militant you know what I mean ? and I have always been able to get along with both Deaf and hearing people. I have noticed that Deaf people who live in the Deaf world 24/7 hours get some real shock culture when they adjust to being in a Deaf/hearing environment but those who are in an Deaf/hearing environment have no problems adjusting to the Deaf world minus the Deaf Power/Deaf militant crowd. There is no reasoning with the Deaf power militant crowd and that gets real old fast with me and I just roll my eyes and let them be what they want to be. I don't have time to agrue with them and just go on with my life and chat with more positive Deaf and hearing people.

 

[vrsterp]

I think a lot of a child's success depends upon their parents. Granted, there are many who do it on their own, DESPITE their parents. Whether they're in a deaf school or a mainstream program, if their parents aren't helping them, it makes it incredibly hard to succeed.

I think a lot of the deaf people i've met are the first/only deaf in their family. A lot of them were just "dumped" (i'm sorry if that sounds rude, it IS a rude thing to do!) at the residential school so that the parents wouldn't have to deal with a child who is different from them.

I look at the kids whose parents, after finding out they were deaf, immediately started learning sign language, checking into resources; after sending them to the deaf school (or mainstream,) they're involved, they talk to the teachers, help the kid with homework, etc. Then I look at the kids whose parents ship them off to the deaf school Sunday afternoon & then don't bother seeing how they're doing in school; don't get involved; don't help with homework; never go to parent teacher conferences, etc. The only time they worry about their kids is friday night-sunday morning. There is usually a HUGE difference in the success of the kids whose parents were involved vs. the kids whose parents weren't. That goes for hearing, too.


Heath: That is a great outlook. No matter their hearing status, don't surround yourself with people who negatively affect you.