why not aspire to speak?

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netrox

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What's wrong with learning to speak and write well?

What's wrong with having an organization like AGB that rewards deaf people who have great speaking skills despite their deafness?

Deaf organizations always award deaf people based on their ASL skills and their talents but not once did I hear of a contest where deaf people are awarded for their excellent speech skills.

AGB is NOT qualified to make decisions on their signing abilities just as NAD is NOT qualified to make decisions based on their speaking skills.
 
well, I certainly cannot speak for the deaf community - as I am a "hearie," but...

Deaf people can't hear themselves or others speak. They have no need of spoken language. Speaking is just another concession to the dominant culture.

Deafness is its own culture. It has its own language. It is both separate from and a part of the larger society. And it seeks to be recognized as EQUAL to oral society, NOT INFERIOR. (Deafness is NOT inferior. Gestural language is not inferior.)

It is neither inferior nor superior - it's just DIFFERENT! (other, separate, etc)

If a deaf person wanted to learn oral and written skills, they would be bilingual. This is not a bad thing!! In fact, being bilingual has its benefits! But it is not a necessity, since they already possess the skills necessary for their primary society - the deaf one.

At least, this is my current level of understanding...
 
MoniDew said:
well, I certainly cannot speak for the deaf community - as I am a "hearie," but...

Deaf people can't hear themselves or others speak. They have no need of spoken language. Speaking is just another concession to the dominant culture.

Deafness is its own culture. It has its own language. It is both separate from and a part of the larger society. And it seeks to be recognized as EQUAL to oral society, NOT INFERIOR. (Deafness is NOT inferior. Gestural language is not inferior.)

It is neither inferior nor superior - it's just DIFFERENT! (other, separate, etc)

If a deaf person wanted to learn oral and written skills, they would be bilingual. This is not a bad thing!! In fact, being bilingual has its benefits! But it is not a necessity, since they already possess the skills necessary for their primary society - the deaf one.

At least, this is my current level of understanding...
Click to expand...

My daughter is Deaf and she absolutly can hear and understand her own voice through her cochlear implant.
 
Nothing wrong with it but when it comes to audist views in regards to developing oral skills and against ASL, then I find something very wrong with the picture.

AGBell identifies itself as an organization for the deaf and hoh but has a history of excluding the Deaf community or any deaf child who doesnt have any oral skills. Also, what the idealogy it stands for historically is what turns poeple off unless you like it.

I think both organizations should represent both Deaf and deaf people if they are going to claim that they are organizations for deaf people.
 
MoniDew said:
well, I certainly cannot speak for the deaf community - as I am a "hearie," but...

Deaf people can't hear themselves or others speak. They have no need of spoken language. Speaking is just another concession to the dominant culture.

Deafness is its own culture. It has its own language. It is both separate from and a part of the larger society. And it seeks to be recognized as EQUAL to oral society, NOT INFERIOR. (Deafness is NOT inferior. Gestural language is not inferior.)

It is neither inferior nor superior - it's just DIFFERENT! (other, separate, etc)

If a deaf person wanted to learn oral and written skills, they would be bilingual. This is not a bad thing!! In fact, being bilingual has its benefits! But it is not a necessity, since they already possess the skills necessary for their primary society - the deaf one.

At least, this is my current level of understanding...
Click to expand...

I like your view!
 
Then what's wrong with NAD being firm on its principles and AGB the same for its principles? I don't think AGB would reject a signing deaf if he can speak well or NAD reject a deaf person with CI that signs well. It's about knowing what their goals are.
 
Because...

AGB was associated with suppression of ASL and its history of physical abuse regarding oralism? A lot of people are still bitter about what happened between 1870s and 1960s-1970s; quite a few still remember those time periods.
 
netrox said:
Then what's wrong with NAD being firm on its principles and AGB the same for its principles? I don't think AGB would reject a signing deaf if he can speak well or NAD reject a deaf person with CI that signs well. It's about knowing what their goals are.
Click to expand...

but would they reject a CI user who doesnt use ASL or reject a deaf person who doesnt have CI and doesnt have oral skills?

It just creates a divide and it gets tiresome. I think they should not have those strict criteria..jut support both. That's in reference to both organizations.
 
souggy said:
Because...

AGB was associated with suppression of ASL and its history of physical abuse regarding oralism? A lot of people are still bitter about what happened between 1870s and 1960s-1970s; quite a few still remember those time periods.
Click to expand...

That too...
 
souggy said:
Because...

AGB was associated with suppression of ASL and its history of physical abuse regarding oralism? A lot of people are still bitter about what happened between 1870s and 1960s-1970s; quite a few still remember those time periods.
Click to expand...

But how was it an organazation's fault that a teacher slapped someone's hand for signing? Blame the teacher, or your parents, not AG Bell.
 
faire_jour said:
But how was it an organazation's fault that a teacher slapped someone's hand for signing? Blame the teacher, or your parents, not AG Bell.
Click to expand...

AG Bell promoted the sterilization of deaf people and the banning of using ASL. These teachers got their views and attitudes from the organizations. I worked with a teacher who was like that in AZ..she was a member of the AGBell organization. It was at the time when I was just learning ASL and learning about Deaf culture. She thought I was sooo wonderful because I had good oral skills. I could have been a pure bitch but I dont think it even mattered but she would put down the kids who relied on ASL as "Whatever they are doing with their hands shouldnt be encouraged."
 
netrox said:
What's wrong with learning to speak and write well?

What's wrong with having an organization like AGB that rewards deaf people who have great speaking skills despite their deafness?

Deaf organizations always award deaf people based on their ASL skills and their talents but not once did I hear of a contest where deaf people are awarded for their excellent speech skills.

AGB is NOT qualified to make decisions on their signing abilities just as NAD is NOT qualified to make decisions based on their speaking skills.
Click to expand...

AGB failed me, It is wrong for them to speak about us who (left behind) and I did not get an award for trying and failed. See how my write skill well? I hope rest of children with CI ended up alike me so to prove AGB failed deaf people over again and again. I am so fed up with many parents and expect them alike those stuck up deaf oralists who are against ASL and be successful. Well guess what I know many deaf oralists collect SSI.
 
faire_jour said:
But how was it an organazation's fault that a teacher slapped someone's hand for signing? Blame the teacher, or your parents, not AG Bell.
Click to expand...

who taught the concept of oralism?

Just because we had segregation laws enacted by government back in old day doesn't mean the government wasn't at fault for black people's mistreatment/abuse/death by the society. Blame the racist people, not government, right?
 
jazzy said:
AGB failed me, It is wrong for them to speak about us who (left behind) and I did not get an award for trying and failed. See how my write skill well? I hope rest of children with CI ended up alike me so to prove AGB failed deaf people over again and again. I am so fed up with many parents and expect them alike those stuck up deaf oralists who are against ASL and be successful. Well guess what I know many deaf oralists collect SSI.
Click to expand...


I know a few deaf people who have CIs who collect SSI. I just wonder if the organization knows about that.
 
shel90 said:
AG Bell promoted the sterilization of deaf people and the banning of using ASL. These teachers got their views and attitudes from the organizations. I worked with a teacher who was like that in AZ..she was a member of the AGBell organization. It was at the time when I was just learning ASL and learning about Deaf culture. She thought I was sooo wonderful because I had good oral skills. I could have been a pure bitch but I dont think it even mattered but she would put down the kids who relied on ASL as "Whatever they are doing with their hands shouldnt be encouraged."
Click to expand...

He did, but the org. today does not!
 
shel90 said:
I know a few deaf people who have CIs who collect SSI. I just wonder if the organization knows about that.
Click to expand...

yes. i have seen that so MANY that they have CIs and collect SSDI and SSI, included children's who are on the parents benefits or on welfare that parents have low income resource then children with ci user gets ssi.
 
jazzy said:
AGB failed me, It is wrong for them to speak about us who (left behind) and I did not get an award for trying and failed. See how my write skill well? I hope rest of children with CI ended up alike me so to prove AGB failed deaf people over again and again. I am so fed up with many parents and expect them alike those stuck up deaf oralists who are against ASL and be successful. Well guess what I know many deaf oralists collect SSI.
Click to expand...

Are you saying that you actually *hope* that children end up failing and being language delayed and mentally and emotionally hurt, so you can feel better and say "I told you so!"????

That is sick....
 
faire_jour said:
He did, but the org. today does not!
Click to expand...

Still the attitudes and views are still there by not being a part of the Deaf community.

I think any organization should represent all members of the deaf/hoh community anyway.
 
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