Why is it Important in Deaf Education

loml said:
Kaitin - To provide you a comparative.
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A comparative for what? You are hardly qualified to make comparisons of cognitive concepts.
 
Angel said:
There nothing wrong with informing parents about CS, but I don't think you understand exactly what Aleser is stating in his/her post.
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Informing parents about the option of CS would involve referring them to the website. If they are interested, they will visit the website and access the information. What loml is doing is posting partial research that he dfoesn't even understand and that presents a very biased and often innacurate portrayal of what CS can accomplish. He is not an educator, he is not a linguist, he is not an educational psychologist, he is not an expert in child development, he is not a researcher. He does not understand the vast majority of what he posts, and he is constantly contrasdicting himself. He doesn't have a clear understanding of CS himself. All he is is an advertiser for NCSA. And NCSA has a financial interest in promoting CS, because they make money from ther sale of books and videos, CS workshops and training, etc.

If you want to advertise CS, loml, purchase some space to do so. If you want to advertise the NCSA, purchase some space to do so. You are attempting to use AD as free advertising space, and has gone beyond merely annoying.
 
Oh? I thought loml is "female" , oppsie. I understand what you mean Jillioie, and I agreed.
 
jillio said:
He is not an educator, he is not a linguist, he is not an educational psychologist, he is not an expert in child development, he is not a researcher. He does not understand the vast majority of what he posts, and he is constantly contrasdicting himself. He doesn't have a clear understanding of CS himself. All he is is an advertiser for NCSA. And NCSA has a financial interest in promoting CS, because they make money from ther sale of books and videos, CS workshops and training, etc.

If you want to advertise CS, loml, purchase some space to do so. If you want to advertise the NCSA, purchase some space to do so. You are attempting to use AD as free advertising space, and has gone beyond merely annoying.
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Isn't that very presumptious? I'm curious how you are able to find out about people's education? It would be interesting to know.

I was under the impression that most organizations would recieve money from books etc., that promote what the organization is about. Could not the same things be said about books on learning ASL or SEE?

As a new member it is discouraging to see people accused of things in such a degrading manner, whether it is true or not. I would think that people would be able to look at all sides with an open mind.:ugh3:
 
owen06 said:
Isn't that very presumptious? I'm curious how you are able to find out about people's education? It would be interesting to know.

I was under the impression that most organizations would recieve money from books etc., that promote what the organization is about. Could not the same things be said about books on learning ASL or SEE?

As a new member it is discouraging to see people accused of things in such a degrading manner, whether it is true or not. I would think that people would be able to look at all sides with an open mind.:ugh3:
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Aren't you the presumptous one? It's clear you don't know our history with Loml as you're new here.

I would assume that she has deducted that from Loml's posts. She's familar with the above professions and it's clear to many of us that she's right. He keeps condracting himself right and left. First, he claims it's not intended to teach others in learning to speak, then a few post laters he'll claim yes, it is intended to help other deaf with speech.

We're open to CS but also rather skeptical of Loml's claims. I should mention here that I've been exposed to cued speech and I credit it with the reason why I have a basic understanding of phonics and it's a useful aid for lipreading. However, I do not believe that it's a replacement for ASL or that it is a viable mode for comunicating with others.

Loml is relentless in pushing cued speech on us and we're all a bit annoyed at this. Not even my mother is this relentless though she comes close.
 
Owen06,
Since you're a newbie here. Not everyone attacks each other all the time. Besides, we're merely stating what we think or believe in response to loml.

Also I have to admit loml just grates on our nerves because all he talks about Cued Speech ALL the time. Frankly, CS is something very few AD members uses, let alone advocate.

Majority of us (AD members) are happy with sign language and don't want another communication method pushed on us.

And Jillio is quite well learned & educated in regards to deaf education and communication methods and its benefits and whatnot.

Truthfully, I prefer someone who knows what she is talking about rather than someone who is, at times, inconsistent in their arguments and answers.

Anyhow, welcome to AD and enjoy your time here.
 
owen06 said:
Isn't that very presumptious? I'm curious how you are able to find out about people's education? It would be interesting to know.

I was under the impression that most organizations would recieve money from books etc., that promote what the organization is about. Could not the same things be said about books on learning ASL or SEE?

As a new member it is discouraging to see people accused of things in such a degrading manner, whether it is true or not. I would think that people would be able to look at all sides with an open mind.:ugh3:
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Please take the time to read allll the threads about Cued Speech dating back to a year ago and maybe you can understnad where Jillo is coming from. Jillo is open-minded about cued speech being used as a tool but with loml's constant contradictions about CS, many of us are getting seriously annoyed with the constant promotion of CS.
 
Miss-Delectable said:
Owen06,
Since you're a newbie here. Not everyone attacks each other all the time. Besides, we're merely stating what we think or believe in response to loml.

Also I have to admit loml just grates on our nerves because all he talks about Cued Speech ALL the time. Frankly, CS is something very few AD members uses, let alone advocate.

Majority of us (AD members) are happy with sign language and don't want another communication method pushed on us.

And Jillio is quite well learned & educated in regards to deaf education and communication methods and its benefits and whatnot.

Truthfully, I prefer someone who knows what she is talking about rather than someone who is, at times, inconsistent in their arguments and answers.

Anyhow, welcome to AD and enjoy your time here.
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I can vouch for that 100%!
 
deafskeptic said:
Aren't you the presumptous one? It's clear you don't know our history with Loml as you're new here.

I would assume that she has deducted that from Loml's posts. She's familar with the above professions and it's clear to many of us that she's right. He keeps condracting himself right and left. First, he claims it's not intended to teach others in learning to speak, then a few post laters he'll claim yes, it is intended to help other deaf with speech.

We're open to CS but also rather skeptical of Loml's claims. I should mention here that I've been exposed to cued speech and I credit it with the reason why I have a basic understanding of phonics and it's a useful aid for lipreading. However, I do not believe that it's a replacement for ASL or that it is a viable mode for comunicating with others.

Loml is relentless in pushing cued speech on us and we're all a bit annoyed at this. Not even my mother is this relentless though she comes close.
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:ty: Thank you, deafskeptic, shel. and Miss-D! You beat me to it!:giggle:
 
shel90 said:
I can vouch for that 100%!
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Count me in for third, I vouch and agree with Miss-Delectable on the good posting, that is exactly how we feel about this whole idea of using Sign Language, here. Right on!!!! :bowdown:
 
*smiling*

Jillio. Sometimes you need someone to take up the battle when you're not around to answer. Think of us as your army :giggle:

By the way, you're welcome.
 
Without the ability to rhyme and manipulate the phonemes of the language, reading will plateau at the third- or fourth-grade level." I don't understand why not rhyming would stop more learning to read.
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Loml, if rhyming is essential to learning how to read, then how come I taught myself to read (in preschool, during early intervention) before I was even introduced to the concept of rhyming?
I was reading Babysitter's Club books and books like Flowers for Algernon in SECOND and third grades!
Sure I can't pronounce words too well............but you know what? I still have an amazingly high reading level, even without your precious Cued Speech or even a teacher of the deaf!
 
Oh and it's good to know that lots of the members here feel that loml CONSTANTLY posting about ONLY Cued speech is annoying.
It's like he has a one track mind or something. It's not as bad as the chats at Hearing Exchange (oh lord............going to those is almost like going to an Asperger's Syndrome chat where everyone is obessed with CIs) but it is still quite annoying. It's pretty much up there on the annoyance scale, with those evaliangcal christians who constantly talk about how they think everyone should find Jesus, and be all christian all the time.
 
deafdyke said:
Loml, if rhyming is essential to learning how to read, then how come I taught myself to read (in preschool, during early intervention) before I was even introduced to the concept of rhyming?
I was reading Babysitter's Club books and books like Flowers for Algernon in SECOND and third grades!
Sure I can't pronounce words too well............but you know what? I still have an amazingly high reading level, even without your precious Cued Speech or even a teacher of the deaf!
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I'm the same way as DD. I learned to read in preschool by reading the names of my classmates; the chairs were marked with cloth covers with their names on it.

By the second grade, I was reading Alfred Hitchcock and the The Three Investigators; my first book that I read in that series was the Mystery of the Screaming Clock. I will allow I gave up midway thru as it was hard for me. By the time I was in the 5th grade, I was reading books like Richard Adam's Watership Down. I got into an agruement with my father over it as he thought it was too hard for me.

I didnt learn anything about phonics till I was in 2nd grade though I do recall learning about rhymes in the 1st grade. I do not recall ever using cued speech till I was in 2nd grade.
 
loml said:
Parents have the right to make informed decisions regarding spoken language aquisition and literacy. I am simply providing information.
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It's not -informed- when the viewpoint that they're being exposed to quite explicitly states that ALL OTHER choices are horrible for so many reasons. There's no pro/con being provided for both sides- it's pro cued speech and nothing else at all. Most average and every day hearing parents faced with a Deaf child would do anything, anything at all, to make them "fit in" with the hearing world- and that's blatantly taking advantage of their need in order to advance your "cause."

I learned the languages my parents spoke at home- all three of them. Don't be so eager to assume that we cannot share common language with our families- because I've gone on to add a few to my list. Language isn't about being able to pronounce the open mid back unrounded vowel in love. It's knowing what the word -means-: written, shouted, signed, grunted, spoken.

You treat us like we're idiots and back it up with crackpot data- clearly, I got into the 9th best university IN THIS COUNTRY with my 3rd grade reading level. Duh.

I'm not stupid, and I'm pretty sure most people here aren't- so don't be so daring as to continue posting articles about how people like us, Deaf signers, are clearly bound to become illiterate idiots.

You may find this a very difficult topic to understand, but most Deaf signers are quite happy with how we communicate- most of us do quite fine, thank you very much.

Maybe you should try being happy with what you have and letting other people enjoy what they've got. We don't want the change you feel the need to offer.
 
deafskeptic said:
I'm the same way as DD. I learned to read in preschool by reading the names of my classmates; the chairs were marked with cloth covers with their names on it.

By the second grade, I was reading Alfred Hitchcock and the The Three Investigators; my first book that I read in that series was the Mystery of the Screaming Clock. I will allow I gave up midway thru as it was hard for me. By the time I was in the 5th grade, I was reading books like Richard Adam's Watership Down. I got into an agruement with my father over it as he thought it was too hard for me.

I didnt learn anything about phonics till I was in 2nd grade though I do recall learning about rhymes in the 1st grade. I do not recall ever using cued speech till I was in 2nd grade.
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My son, as well, learned to read at preschool age. I purchased several children's signed English books for him from Gallaudet. The sign for the word was shown underneath the print. It did not take him long to grasp the concept that the printed word and the sign were both symbols that represented the same thing, and by the age of 4, he was asking how to write a signed concept.

Many children over the years have been taught to read using the "sight reading" method. Even methodology on teaching hearing children has gone back and forth between phonics and sight reading. I myself, was taught to read using the sight reading method, as it was the popular methodology at the time. Both my son and I are avid readers, and he has always tested above grade level on reading skills. Of course, I am not deaf, but I am a visual learner, with auditory being my second preference. And to this day, even when reading highly technical material, I do not rely on phonics in my reading.

Many, many hearing people fall into the same category as I do. So, to say that phonetic decoding is the way that all hearing children learn to read is as much of a fallicy as saying all deaf children must learn phonics to achieve literacy.
 
Aleser said:
It's not -informed- when the viewpoint that they're being exposed to quite explicitly states that ALL OTHER choices are horrible for so many reasons. There's no pro/con being provided for both sides- it's pro cued speech and nothing else at all. Most average and every day hearing parents faced with a Deaf child would do anything, anything at all, to make them "fit in" with the hearing world- and that's blatantly taking advantage of their need in order to advance your "cause."

I learned the languages my parents spoke at home- all three of them. Don't be so eager to assume that we cannot share common language with our families- because I've gone on to add a few to my list. Language isn't about being able to pronounce the open mid back unrounded vowel in love. It's knowing what the word -means-: written, shouted, signed, grunted, spoken.

You treat us like we're idiots and back it up with crackpot data- clearly, I got into the 9th best university IN THIS COUNTRY with my 3rd grade reading level. Duh.

I'm not stupid, and I'm pretty sure most people here aren't- so don't be so daring as to continue posting articles about how people like us, Deaf signers, are clearly bound to become illiterate idiots.

You may find this a very difficult topic to understand, but most Deaf signers are quite happy with how we communicate- most of us do quite fine, thank you very much.

Maybe you should try being happy with what you have and letting other people enjoy what they've got. We don't want the change you feel the need to offer.
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:gpost: Very well stated, Alleser.

Not bad, for an illiterate, 3rd grade reading level signer. JK:giggle:
 
Miss-Delectable said:
Owen06,
Since you're a newbie here. Not everyone attacks each other all the time. Besides, we're merely stating what we think or believe in response to loml.

Also I have to admit loml just grates on our nerves because all he talks about Cued Speech ALL the time. Frankly, CS is something very few AD members uses, let alone advocate.

Majority of us (AD members) are happy with sign language and don't want another communication method pushed on us.

And Jillio is quite well learned & educated in regards to deaf education and communication methods and its benefits and whatnot.

Truthfully, I prefer someone who knows what she is talking about rather than someone who is, at times, inconsistent in their arguments and answers.

Anyhow, welcome to AD and enjoy your time here.
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Miss Delectable - Although your response is directed at Owen06, I am trusting that you will clarify at least a few of your statements, as a opportunity for learning.

What are the inconsistencies that you claim? What has lead you to believe that I do not know what I am talking about?
 
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