Why implant so early?

[loml]

I know you do, thanks,
but I did want to show that there's a different scenario's.
But cueing, that would include lipreading, speech therapy etc. It wouldn't be easy either.
I like sign. It's a complete language and very beautiful. But for our family it was not practical.
You grew up with cued speech?

Cloggy,

Ahhh thank you for clarifying... I see where you are coming from. I also feel that sign is a wonderful communication tool.

No I did not grow up using cs.

 

[Cloggy]

Cloggy,

Thank you for taking the time to present the performative results. I have little doubt that early pediatric implantation, prior to the age of 3, increases a child's ability to recognize and identify bisyllablic words, due to the brain's great plasticity at that stage. Are the bisyllablic words based on stress-timed (English, Dutch, German, Russian, etc.), syllable-timed languages (generally Romance and Indian languages) or both? I can conclude, with absolute certainty, that Chinese words were not included in the study, as there are no bisyllablic words, only monosyllablic ones, in Chinese. I also wonder if implanted children of similar backgrounds have the ability to recognize tonal-based words.

I'm no expert on this, so I cannot answer this.
I do know that compared to Norwegian and Swedish "CI-" children, Danish CI-children have huge problems learning to pronounce words. This because many words are "kept in the throat". Only part is pronounced.
I also heared that Spanish words are pronounced as they are written, which is very rare. CI-children will probably do very well there.

 

[Cloggy]

Well I don't know about in Norway or the US but caesarean births are now 30% of the total births in Australia. I had one for my daughter upon my doctor's recommendation. It probably is unnescessary in a lot of cases but then hindsight is perfect. People here don't even bat an eyelid having this surgery even though it's major compared to a CI surgery and obviously has a higher maternal death rate .

Anyway sorry for making your thread off topic.

I started it..... Go make a new topic out of it.

 

[loml]

Cloggy,
I can conclude, with absolute certainty, that Chinese words were not included in the study, as there are no bisyllablic words, only monosyllablic ones, in Chinese. I also wonder if implanted children of similar backgrounds have the ability to recognize tonal-based words.

me_punctured.

How very interesting... I also wonder with you.

TY

 

[netrox]

I grew up with cuem (cued speech). It's too bad that it's being ignored as a way to SHOW language visually. Too many people used it as a "speech tool" for a short period of time when in fact, it can be used as a way to express consonant-vowel languages naturally.

It does NOT matter if the deaf cannot speak, speech is not a requirement for cueing but speech can co-exist perfectly with cued speech. The term "cued speech" was created in 1960's based on antiquated concepts that speech and language are the same. I feel "cuem" is more accurate since it doesn't imply the requirement for speech and "cued English" is a more productive term showing that you know English through cuem.

 

[sr171soars]

Are the bisyllablic words based on stress-timed (English, Dutch, German, Russian, etc.), syllable-timed languages (generally Romance and Indian languages) or both? I can conclude, with absolute certainty, that Chinese words were not included in the study, as there are no bisyllablic words, only monosyllablic ones, in Chinese. I also wonder if implanted children of similar backgrounds have the ability to recognize tonal-based words.

I also wonder about this. I have heard that is difficult for say "English" speakers to learn Chinese due to this very thing (talking hearing folks let alone those with CIs).

 

[deafdyke]

it reported that their lipreading improved significantly so it is clear that they can benefit from it.

And that IS a good benifit!!!!!
Frag, that's a good idea......but be a LITTLE more flexiable with hearing devices. Like if they say they don't want to wear them any more when they are teens, come up with a compromise.....like wear them at school, but don't have to wear them at home.

 

[R2D2]

I also wonder about this. I have heard that is difficult for say "English" speakers to learn Chinese due to this very thing (talking hearing folks let alone those with CIs).

I've heard this too. Mandarin and Cantonese have between 4 and 7 different tones from what I understand. Can you imagine that?? Basically the same word has different meanings depending on how it is said.

However deaf chinese do get by. My mother once taught a very brilliant deaf Chinese young man who could speak his own language Cantonese fluently and also English.

 

[ismi]

Mandarin has bisyllabic words. Just grabbing from Wikipedia, hudie and zanmen (no tones, sorry) are both bisyllabic. Mashuang, if you want a polysyllabic word, although I'll grant that it's a pseudo-loan word (Massachusetts). Cantonese has polysyllabic words as well.

Tones are tricky for people not used to them, but they're not all that bad for native speakers. Compare the problems that native English speakers have with the German ch (as in mich), or the problems that German speakers often have with sounds like the soft th. It's just what you're used to.

 

[Angel]

Very interesting, Thanks for bringing this up Cloggy, I'm learning something here

 

[Momoftwo]

Often the same discussion comes up. Not to implant early but to let the child decide.
That argument is nopt ignored (by parents that decide to operate early), it is overruled by other info from research...
Below a picture from a research -"poster" which is attatched to this topid.

It shows the vast difference between children implanted early and those implanted later....
Sure, this is only one test, but the difference is striking!

So, even though "having the children make their own decision" sounds great, it will put them on the right side of the graph.
So, deciding that the childs has to decide for itself is you deciding that your child will be less effective with CI.

Wow!! This is proof. Yeah, it is really hurting to deaf adults because of not great improvement results. Wow, deaf babies with CI will have so much easier in their life because of much less frustrations and much less struggles. I consider that deaf babies with CI are so very lucky.

Thanks for posting here!

 

[Cloggy]

Wow!! This is proof. Yeah, it is really hurting to deaf adults because of not great improvement results. Wow, deaf babies with CI will have so much easier in their life because of much less frustrations and much less struggles. I consider that deaf babies with CI are so very lucky.

Thanks for posting here!

Where does it say they have an easier life?
The article shows that children implanted at early age have a huge benefit from it.

 

[R2D2]

Wow!! This is proof. Yeah, it is really hurting to deaf adults because of not great improvement results.

With the deaf adults the results of having a CI depends on a lot of factors. If there has been plenty of effective auditory stimulation either through hearing aids or normal hearing, they are able to speak and lipread then the results have been generally pretty pleasing in the long term for deaf adult recipients.

It can take several months to get to that stage after the CI has been implanted though. I was chatting to a lady who lives locally to me who was born deaf and had an implant last year. She said that at switch on it sounded so terrible that she regretted doing it. But a year on, she could not be more pleased and is considering a second one for her other ear. She said for example that before her implant using the phone with her hearing aids was impossible but now she can have short conversations. I would like to meet up with her in person because she sounds like my twin - both born deaf, hearing aids at 2 etc etc.

On the other hand I also have another friend who had never heard sound before and he got a CI just about when they first came out. He was told that he probably wouldn't benefit but he wanted to try it anyway. He got headaches from the sounds and it was terrible for him because his brain hadn't heard sound before and it didn't know what to do with it. Because he was older it was too late for him. So he turned it off permanently.

So with adults it's not for everyone! They see much better results with CIs on young children, which is why they push so hard for it to be done early.

 

[gnulinuxman]

First it's not "Just" to gain hearing. You might think that hearing is really nothing special but I do and a lot of people with me. It means so much, that people are willing to have their child undergo an operation in order to hear sounds. It's not "Just hearing."

Yeah, because they want to "fix their kids' broken ears". :roll:

We have a positive attitude towards the techmology and believe that it will last very-very long. But your questions are valid. It's just that you are worried about things that happen to some CI-ers. I look at the things that happen to most CI-ers.

What if you had a child who was in that minority? Would you still think that way?

To those that show no sign of improvement. They had a opportunity and it didn't work. From that point onwards, other communication has to be learned if they do not know it allready. They are as deaf as they would have been before CI.

Or just continue worshipping the cochlear implant.

If it stops working. Yes, a new one is a good option. And with the joy my daughter has with hearing, I'm sure that she will be OK with the additional operation. Remember, she grows up hearing. Deafness will be a new world for her. Sure, she's deaf when she goes to bed, under the shower, swimming. But the main part of her life she hears.

If the CI breaks (like the processor comes off and someone steps on it or something), what if your daughter is stuck? Hmmm?

If anything happened that would exclude her from hearing... then she will be like any other child that lost her hearing after learning to hear and speak. She'll have an advantage in the way that she has heared.

How? It would be more of an advantage if she wasn't taught to rely on the device. You can't miss what you haven't experienced, as the saying goes.

And sure, we will be sad that it didn't work.

Yeah, because you're only happy if you can think of your daughter as normal.

Now, let me put a dark side on deafness like you put a dark side on hearing with CI.
Suppose we had decided agains CI. Then one day, say your 5 years, she would have an accident in traffic. Would that be worth it NOT having CI.

I hope she will write to you one day, in English, the fourth language that she will have mastered after Sign, Dutch, Norwegian.
How would that make you feel?

Uh, why does she need a CI to write?

 

[Cloggy]

For other readers that are here on AllDeaf looking for information, I aplogize for the clueless of GNU. All the remarks he put down have allready been explained elsewher. My feeling is that the negative feeling towards CI results in utterly ignorance.

So, anyone that is really intereste; feel free do ask questions on this board. Do not be discouraged by the following reply on GNU's post.


Originally Posted by Cloggy
First it's not "Just" to gain hearing. You might think that hearing is really nothing special but I do and a lot of people with me. It means so much, that people are willing to have their child undergo an operation in order to hear sounds. It's not "Just hearing."

GNU:Yeah, because they want to "fix their kids' broken ears". GNU showing he has no clue.

Originally Posted by Cloggy
We have a positive attitude towards the techmology and believe that it will last very-very long. But your questions are valid. It's just that you are worried about things that happen to some CI-ers. I look at the things that happen to most CI-ers.

GNU: What if you had a child who was in that minority? Would you still think that way? What minority are you talking about? Didiit just pop up in your head??? Take an asprin.

Originally Posted by Cloggy
To those that show no sign of improvement. They had a opportunity and it didn't work. From that point onwards, other communication has to be learned if they do not know it allready. They are as deaf as they would have been before CI.

GNU: Or just continue worshipping the cochlear implant. GNU showing he has no clue.

Originally Posted by Cloggy
If it stops working. Yes, a new one is a good option. And with the joy my daughter has with hearing, I'm sure that she will be OK with the additional operation. Remember, she grows up hearing. Deafness will be a new world for her. Sure, she's deaf when she goes to bed, under the shower, swimming. But the main part of her life she hears.

GNU: If the CI breaks (like the processor comes off and someone steps on it or something), what if your daughter is stuck? Hmmm?
GNU showing he has no clue.

Originally Posted by Cloggy
If anything happened that would exclude her from hearing... then she will be like any other child that lost her hearing after learning to hear and speak. She'll have an advantage in the way that she has heared.

GNU:How? It would be more of an advantage if she wasn't taught to rely on the device. You can't miss what you haven't experienced, as the saying goes.
GNU showing he has no clue. A 7-year old never relied on technology. And you can long for something you never experienced.


Originally Posted by Cloggy
And sure, we will be sad that it didn't work.

GNU: Yeah, because you're only happy if you can think of your daughter as normal.
So you're saying that only hearing people are normal?


Originally Posted by Cloggy
Now, let me put a dark side on deafness like you put a dark side on hearing with CI.
Suppose we had decided agains CI. Then one day, say your 5 years, she would have an accident in traffic. Would that be worth it NOT having CI.
GNU: "WTF"
GNU showing with an smilie that he has no clue...... OK I'll explain. Anything can be reasoned with fear. It's better to reason with happyness and joy.

Originally Posted by Cloggy
I hope she will write to you one day, in English, the fourth language that she will have mastered after Sign, Dutch, Norwegian.
How would that make you feel?

GNU:Uh, why does she need a CI to write?
GNU showing he has no clue. Your fiance is deaf... how many foreign languages does she speak? Go to your deaf friens and ask them how many languages they speak.
My daughter understands 3 languags with CI. Without CI she understood 1.... So, Go ask your fiance and your friends....

Basically, YOU HAVE NO CLUE.

 

[Fragmenter]

All the remarks he put down have allready been explained elsewher.

Can you give me a B?

Can you give me a I?

Can you give me a N?

Can you give me a G?

Can you give me a O?

BINGO!

 

[Awauphi]

kids today are lucky cuz the channels in the ci now have 16 channels.. when the ci first came out.. it only came in 2 channels so it didnt benefit alot of kids or adults. today most of kids and the adults do benefits from the ci but not all as it said it all depend on each individuals..

 

[Cloggy]

kids today are lucky cuz the channels in the ci now have 16 channels.. when the ci first came out.. it only came in 2 channels so it didnt benefit alot of kids or adults. today most of kids and the adults do benefits from the ci but not all as it said it all depend on each individuals..

Absolutely. Technology improves so fast.
And it's thanks to pioneers 10 years ago that accepted the technology that we are here now.
I met a lady in Oslo Hospital that was one of the first to get CI, and now was being "upgraded" to better hardware...
Even though the technology was at a lower level, she benefitted from it and used it constantly.

I like to compare it with computers 10 years ago..... Do you remember these.... No-one nowadays will touch them....

 

[Awauphi]

Absolutely. Technology improves so fast.
And it's thanks to pioneers 10 years ago that accepted the technology that we are here now.
I met a lady in Oslo Hospital that was one of the first to get CI, and now was being "upgraded" to better hardware...
Even though the technology was at a lower level, she benefitted from it and used it constantly.

I like to compare it with computers 10 years ago..... Do you remember these.... No-one nowadays will touch them....

yep and they are going to continue improve the technology that one day we will be able to hear in many channels? wouldnt that be wonderful?

you said that u met a lady who was the first one to get a ci.. did she have had the surgery to change magnet or magnet remain same? but new processor or what? I wonder?? I am quite curious.

like many said it doesnt work but i know it did work for some?

 

[Cloggy]

yep and they are going to continue improve the technology that one day we will be able to hear in many channels? wouldnt that be wonderful?

you said that u met a lady who was the first one to get a ci.. did she have had the surgery to change magnet or magnet remain same? but new processor or what? I wonder?? I am quite curious.

like many said it doesnt work but i know it did work for some?

It was just a beautiful encounter between the old lady with one of the first implants, and my daughter being the first with bi-lateral "freedom " in 1 operation.

It's not the magnet that is replaced, it's the whole CI... averything below the sking. Then, a new one will be inserted.