Why do they make Deaf students spend their first three years at college taking no ..

[jillio]

This question might sound a little dumb, but I will see if I can word it the way I mean it.

Let's say a deaf student was really smart in everything but english skills. Like he was a math wizard and history buff. If he couldn't read the or write the test well, would they keep him back in all areas, or is there such a thing as testing a student through sign language to find out he knows history and such, and then only make him take extra english classes? I hope that came out right.

There are non-verbally based tests, and there are also interpreted tests. They are much more accurrate and non-biased. Look at it this way:

A little girl from the West Indies is sitting in a classroom in America. The teacher is doing sentence completion exercises. The teacher asks her to complete the following: "Mary had a little lamb......"

The student from the West Indies replies "And she ate it."

Is her answer wrong? Has she falied to comprehend the question? Is it an idication that she cannot understand, or that she is intellectually incapable of doing grade level work? No to all questions. Scoring her answer as wrong is an indication of test bias. To her, and from her culturaal perspective, the answer was entirely correct, and shows an ability to think critically.

 

[VamPyroX]

Yes, like for example with LA it is AAS without LA it is AOS
Associate in Applied Science and Associate in Occupational Studies.
(in my case, my majored offered that... DIPT Frequently Asked Questions )

Yeah.

Unfortunately, some students take too long to get their degrees. I know a guy who took 8 years to get an AOS degree and another guy who took over 10 years to get an AOS degree. :roll:

The reason for this is because they either change their majors too much or keep signing up for non-related courses. A lot of them sign up for theater class.

There was one guy who graduated with AOS after 7 years, but he wasn't 100% finished. He still had a few classes left. Yet, he "didn't know". He never got his diploma in the mail for a full year (diplomas are sent out 5 to 10 weeks after you graduate), but he never bothered to wonder why. I guess he was too busy drinking, smoking, and staying at home refusing to work. :roll:

I worked as a student mentor for a year at NTID. My job was to help students whenever necessary. The most common complaint I heard from them was that their teachers hated them and/or their classes were too hard. Yet, I can't really help a lot of these students because they actually spend most of their time drinking, doing drugs, and sleeping in too much. They actually miss 5 to 15 classes on average. A lot of NTID classes grade heavily on attendance. If you're not going to show up in class, you're not going to learn and you're going to fail... period.

I have a friend who got an AAS degree, BS degree, and a MS degree... all at NTID/RIT. This shows that she did her part by going to class and doing her homework. Simple as that.

 

[VamPyroX]

Hello Shel90, I want to make sure I understand this. Let's say...a student, aged 15 in the 6th grade is moved to 8th grade so he could graduate at 19 instead of 21? Is this what your school is doing/trying to do?

This has actually happened at my high school. They rush to graduate some deaf students due to their age instead of intelligence. This resulted in a lot of deaf students graduating with 7th grade Math and 3rd grade English.

 

[VamPyroX]

This question might sound a little dumb, but I will see if I can word it the way I mean it.

Let's say a deaf student was really smart in everything but english skills. Like he was a math wizard and history buff. If he couldn't read the or write the test well, would they keep him back in all areas, or is there such a thing as testing a student through sign language to find out he knows history and such, and then only make him take extra english classes? I hope that came out right.

Don't forget, there are word problems in Math too.

Here's a couple good examples...

"Jill has $100 in her purse. She went to the flower shop and spent $10 on flowers. She then went to the grocery store and spent half of what was left on food. She stopped by the gas station on her way home and spent $15 on gas. How much did she have left in her purse when she got home?"

"( ( 100 - 10 ) / 2 ) - 15 = ?"

If a skilled Math person has good English skills, he/she would understand the first problem... doesn't have good English skills, he/she would only understand the second problem.

Both of them are the same.

Half of my teachers/professors have told me that the real world doesn't just give me numbers, they give me words... I have to interpret them into numbers.

 

[Reba]

This question might sound a little dumb, but I will see if I can word it the way I mean it.

Let's say a deaf student was really smart in everything but english skills. Like he was a math wizard and history buff. If he couldn't read the or write the test well, would they keep him back in all areas, or is there such a thing as testing a student through sign language to find out he knows history and such, and then only make him take extra english classes? I hope that came out right.

At the college level, the prospective students have to pass an entrance exam. That measures their ability to handle college level work.

The goals of the developmental courses are to ensure that the students can read and understand college text books, and write college level papers, in English.

College text books and college level research materials are usually presented in college level English, regardless of subject matter. History, economics, psychology, chemistry, etc., require college level reading comprehension skills. A college student majoring in chemistry, physics, or psychology isn't going to be able to find all college texts and research materials in an ASL version.

The developmental math course prepares the student for at least minimal math skills in college.

Decades ago, American college students who majored in certain sciences had to also take German. Why? Because many of the texts that they used were published only in German. It was considered a reasonable requirement for graduation.

 

[Boult]

Yeah.

Unfortunately, some students take too long to get their degrees. I know a guy who took 8 years to get an AOS degree and another guy who took over 10 years to get an AOS degree. :roll:

The reason for this is because they either change their majors too much or keep signing up for non-related courses. A lot of them sign up for theater class.

There was one guy who graduated with AOS after 7 years, but he wasn't 100% finished. He still had a few classes left. Yet, he "didn't know". He never got his diploma in the mail for a full year (diplomas are sent out 5 to 10 weeks after you graduate), but he never bothered to wonder why. I guess he was too busy drinking, smoking, and staying at home refusing to work. :roll:

I worked as a student mentor for a year at NTID. My job was to help students whenever necessary. The most common complaint I heard from them was that their teachers hated them and/or their classes were too hard. Yet, I can't really help a lot of these students because they actually spend most of their time drinking, doing drugs, and sleeping in too much. They actually miss 5 to 15 classes on average. A lot of NTID classes grade heavily on attendance. If you're not going to show up in class, you're not going to learn and you're going to fail... period.

I have a friend who got an AAS degree, BS degree, and a MS degree... all at NTID/RIT. This shows that she did her part by going to class and doing her homework. Simple as that.

Right, but don't forget about financial needs as well as VR supports.. If they were pursing AAS degree then end up getting AOS due to limited VR supports or other reason...

 

[jillio]

This has actually happened at my high school. They rush to graduate some deaf students due to their age instead of intelligence. This resulted in a lot of deaf students graduating with 7th grade Math and 3rd grade English.

That's because deaf students are only eligible to receive a free, appropriate education up to the age of 21.

 

[jillio]

Right, but don't forget about financial needs as well as VR supports.. If they were pursing AAS degree then end up getting AOS due to limited VR supports or other reason...

Limited VR support does not affect the type of degree earned, nor does financial considerations affect the type of degree earned. If they were provided VR support and financial aid to allow them to achieve an associate degree, it doens't matter whether it is an AAS or an AOS. That is totally dependent upon course of study. Limited VR support has absolutely nothing to do with a student taking courses outside their declared program of study, and then not qualifying for the degree they originally set out to earn.

 

[VamPyroX]

Right, but don't forget about financial needs as well as VR supports.. If they were pursing AAS degree then end up getting AOS due to limited VR supports or other reason...

Actually, most VR counselors limit their support to 5 years (give or take a few months depending on the program). They don't like giving their clients financial support if their clients are going to take too long to get their degrees.

AOS is like AAS minus Liberal Arts. Therefore, AOS should take less time to complete. What I mentioned were students who took 7 to 10 years to get AOS. That's TOO LONG!

I have friends who took 2 1/2 to 3 years to get their AAS degrees, and their VR counselors agreed to continue financial aid when those students decided to continue for a BS degree (which took them 2 to 3 more years). As I said, VR counselors usually limit their support to about 5 years.

 

[VamPyroX]

That's because deaf students are only eligible to receive a free, appropriate education up to the age of 21.

Oh, so money is more important than their education?

The students who graduated from my school weren't really taught. They were held back.

 

[jillio]

Oh, so money is more important than their education?

The students who graduated from my school weren't really taught. They were held back.

Who said money was more important than education? I said a deaf student was only entitled to receive services in the public education system until the age of 21. Non-deaf students are cut off before that. I wasn't talking about college, I was talking about free public education.

 

[VamPyroX]

Who said money was more important than education? I said a deaf student was only entitled to receive services in the public education system until the age of 21. Non-deaf students are cut off before that. I wasn't talking about college, I was talking about free public education.

That's what I also mentioned, those students were being held back.

When hearing students flunked a test, they got failing grades.

When deaf student flunked a test, they still got passing grades.

So, tell me... who's being held back?

 

[jillio]

That's what I also mentioned, those students were being held back.

When hearing students flunked a test, they got failing grades.

When deaf student flunked a test, they still got passing grades.

So, tell me... who's being held back?

I agree. It is the deaf students who are being held back due to a failure to teach.

My bad....I thought you were saying I thought money was more imprtant than education!

 

[dreamchaser]

Limited VR support does not affect the type of degree earned, nor does financial considerations affect the type of degree earned. If they were provided VR support and financial aid to allow them to achieve an associate degree, it doens't matter whether it is an AAS or an AOS. That is totally dependent upon course of study. Limited VR support has absolutely nothing to do with a student taking courses outside their declared program of study, and then not qualifying for the degree they originally set out to earn.

So, if they use up there credits, (money wise) they have to stop there? Are there foundations for further funding? I doubt that one can qualify for a regular academic scholarship is he is already behind in English stuff. ????

 

[Boult]

Oh, so money is more important than their education?

The students who graduated from my school weren't really taught. They were held back.

that's the case in my high school but I have met students at NTID who could have been held back in deaf school but nope, they eventually graduated and has become a NTID student!

 

[Boult]

Limited VR support does not affect the type of degree earned, nor does financial considerations affect the type of degree earned. If they were provided VR support and financial aid to allow them to achieve an associate degree, it doens't matter whether it is an AAS or an AOS. That is totally dependent upon course of study. Limited VR support has absolutely nothing to do with a student taking courses outside their declared program of study, and then not qualifying for the degree they originally set out to earn.

Obviously you weren't a NTID student at all and haven't seen such happened when I have.

 

[jillio]

So, if they use up there credits, (money wise) they have to stop there? Are there foundations for further funding? I doubt that one can qualify for a regular academic scholarship is he is already behind in English stuff. ????

If someone is given VR support to assist them in obtaining a degree, then that support continues until the dgree is received. Of course, they are expected to complete it in a timely manner. Four years of attendance to complete an associate degree is not unheard of, especially if the student is attending part-time. Six years for a bachelor degree is reasonable. Undergraduate financial aid, in the form of Pell Grants, etc. is not unlimited, either.

These guidelines are in place to prevent a person from attending school without direction, and receiving financial aid to do so. In other words, as long as you are making reasonable progress toward a degree, even deadlines for financial aid can be appealed. However, if you have declared a major, and 5 years later have a transcript full of golf, archery, and basket weaving, you are going to run into difficulty in getting continued financial aid.

I have a deaf student currently that is under academic scholarship, despite the fact that he was required to take 2 developmental English courses before registering for college level English courses that are required for graduation. The fact that he had to take these developmental courses do not jepodize his scholarship as long as he is making acceptable progress. In other words, he made a "A" in English 150, and a "B" in English 151, so he was still making great progress in gaining the skills he needed to go onto college level courses. His weaknesses were not in comprehension, but in mechanics.....he needed some remedial work in writing skills necessary to write a college level paper for the more advanced academic courses. He had a great comprehension of content, but he had problems with grammar and punctuation. Those 2 developmental courses added only 1 quarter to his expected graduation date, and he will still complete his BS in under 5 years.

When credit hours get used up, it is not because a student has had to take a developmental course or 2. It is because they have failed to complete general university requirements and major requirements for graduation. They have a transcript full of electives, or as we used to call them, crip courses.

 

[jillio]

Obviously you weren't a NTID student at all and haven't seen such happened when I have.

No, I wasn't a student at NTID, but I do have degrees from 2 other universities, and am working on the third. What does that have to do with the way VR funds are dispersed?

 

[Buffalo]

however, we got a new program that has gotten like so many students skip 2 grade levels this year alone with reading.
I am really excited about this new program!

What program is that? Do tell me more about it.

 

[VamPyroX]

I agree. It is the deaf students who are being held back due to a failure to teach.

My bad....I thought you were saying I thought money was more imprtant than education!

Well, some schools (with special ed programs) get additional federal funding when they allow students to graduate. So, in order to get more funding... they have to prove that they are capable of helping deaf students graduate. So, in some ways... it's also money.

This doesn't apply to all schools, but that's one thing.