Why do Deaf people feel ignored by many?

[DeafCaroline]

Your point is well taken, I go through the same thing, but to solve a broad problem you can't look at it (in the beginning) on a specific level.

I am lucky to have people that fill me in, but to be clear, there is no right to be filled in it, is done out of the goodness that people possess.

IMO, we as a group need to find an answer because nobody else will. And, fighting among ourselves about it is non-conductive. Technology may be the only solution, it's a tower of babel.

Ok, "there's no right to be filled in, it is done out of the goodness people possess."

The way I see what you wrote: you're basically saying deaf people have no rights to be included and if they do get included, it's done so only out of charity.

You do realize this sounds very wrong, right?

You're absolutely right that something needs to be done but I disagree about technology. We've had technology since the 19th century for the deaf and it didn't solve the fundamental problem of deaf people being excluded from the very same world they are forced to be a part of (i.e. mainstreaming) and infighting is normal when two people disagree or have different perspectives and feelings about similiar or parallel experiences.

Personally, I think the problem right now is not enough deaf presence in public society, and not enough political action to ensure they are there alongside the medical community to provide support for parents who just learned their child is deaf.

Posts From Hell said, and I think this is absolutely brilliant, that if every elementary school made learning sign language compulsory, much if not most of the problems existing between the deaf and hearing would be eliminated. He's absolutely right. Look at Martha's Vineyard, for example. The deaf population was so big that virtually every hearing person who lived there knew sign. Imagine...I would so love to live in a world like that.

 

[CSign]

Look at Martha's Vineyard, for example. The deaf population was so big that virtually every hearing person who lived there knew sign. Imagine...I would so love to live in a world like that.

I would too...

 

[VacationGuy234]

Ok, "there's no right to be filled in, it is done out of the goodness people possess."

The way I see what you wrote: you're basically saying deaf people have no rights to be included and if they do get included, it's done so only out of charity.

On the government level that the state has a responsibility or duty, yes, we could have compulsory sign language and certainly interpreters and ADA. However, on the private level you cannot get people to include you in conversations. It is something that must be taken on by every individual and that's not going to happen much the same as the state not being able to wipe out racism with legislation.

That's my point...

EDIT: We can get better through government, but you can't have a cop in every kitchen on every Xmas eve.

 

[DeafCaroline]

On the government level that the state has a responsibility or duty, yes, we could have compulsory sign language and certainly interpreters and ADA. However, on the private level you cannot get people to include you in conversations. It is something that must be taken on by every individual and that's not going to happen much the same as the state not being able to wipe out racism with legislation.

That's my point...

However, if on a private level, they already knew sign, it solves a lot of problems with exclusion from one's own family.

Black people can hear what white people are saying and vice versa and they are part of their own families and can follow what the teachers are saying at school and participate if they want to and they can socialize with their peers. Not sure how this is comparable to problems deaf people face.

About legislation and all that, it might interest you to read about how Sweden made changes in regards to the deaf education. They've made very impressive strides, from ensuring representatives of the deaf community is there alongside the doctors to provide support for the parents, to offering 40 weeks of free sign lessons so parents can start communicating and developing their deaf baby's language skills, to having very high and strict standards for teachers for the deaf, the list goes on. It's really quite something and it would please me to no end if we adopt the Swedish model in North America instead of having this fallacious thinking that only technology can and will solve the problem.

It's unfortunate you are equating elevating standards for the deaf with affirmative action which is a completely separate political issue altogether.

 

[VacationGuy234]

It's unfortunate you are equating elevating standards for the deaf with affirmative action which is a completely separate political issue altogether.

I'm equating a social problem which is no different, affirmative action has nothing to do with it, racism is illegal. And, have you looked at Saab, the great socialist answer to capitalism, lately?

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Saab_Automobile#Second_bankruptcy_petition

 

[DeafCaroline]

I'm equating a social problem which is no different, affirmative action has nothing to do with it, racism is illegal. And, have you looked at Saab, the great socialist answer to capitalism, lately?

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Saab_Automobile#Second_bankruptcy_petition

How did we get from your belief that deaf people are not entitled to be included to racism then this, the Saab, the great socialist answer to capitalism? I mean, wha?

Whatever you're drinking, pass it along.

 

[TXgolfer]

this ad needs a break from the recycle same old issues over and over that both of the two party will never change who they all are which is OK but provaking with simple words to each other is NOT OK.

that is how it happened to those members being banned. i dont blame all deaf forum itself/administration. in my experience with other forum and the forum died because of provaking. so i can understand why the ad forum needs to cool those members off in order to keep the alldeaf alive besides the opinions that does not concern ALLDEAF forum itself but no provaking or insulting or tactless words.

yes that sucks.

Excellent post!

 

[DeafCaroline]

On the government level that the state has a responsibility or duty, yes, we could have compulsory sign language and certainly interpreters and ADA. However, on the private level you cannot get people to include you in conversations. It is something that must be taken on by every individual and that's not going to happen much the same as the state not being able to wipe out racism with legislation.

That's my point...

EDIT: We can get better through government, but you can't have a cop in every kitchen on every Xmas eve.

I am not asking for cops in every kitchen on xmas eve. But there's absolutely nothing wrong with changing the system for the better, starting with acknowledging the validity of the deaf community when it comes to counseling the parents who just learned their child is deaf and thinks it's a tragedy, especially after the doctor just told them their child "failed the test".

Not a positive or encouraging start and no better time than for the deaf community to be there and reassure the parents that their child is fine, just has some different needs.

And how is it a bad thing to offer free sign lessons to parents or to demand that teachers for the deaf meet exacting standards to ensure deaf kids are getting the best opportunities to catch up and meet at the same level as their hearing peers?

And this last one, I know is a huge fantasy even though I would love to see just one district give it a go, if sign language was compulsory in school starting with kindergarten, it's not only a benefit for the deaf and hard of hearing but with the likelihood of losing some hearing due to constant exposure to ear phones, loud music or with aging, it would be a benefit to themselves as well.

It's not more legislation we need, it's actually just changing the system so we would actually need less legislation and less capital expenditure.

A cop in every kitchen on xmas eve, sheesh. I'm offended by this comment, by the way. My expressed wish for my family to stop forgetting about me out of every conversation when I am right there in their midst, that could have never been borne in the first place had they learned sign, of which they would have done had the system been more like Sweden's and it would have been a win not only for me but for them too. When I am left out, they are missing out on what I have to say and bring to the table. My loss is just as much of their loss as well and all of this could have been avoided in the first place had things been done right to begin with.

And your cops in kitchen comment is making it sound like you think I want some police state to ensure deaf people receive entitlements they don't deserve, such as inclusion. Equal rights.

Sheesh.

 

[kokonut]

Sweden is also big on cochlear implantation, too.

The research for cochlear implants in deaf children in Sweden started in 1995. By 2001, approximately 180 deaf children in Sweden had received cochlear implants (Preisler, Tvingstedt, & Ahlström, 2002). In 2004, approximately 350 children in Sweden had cochlear implants (Willstedt-Svensson, Lofqvist, Almqvist, & Sahlen, 2004). According to Barnplantorna‟s 2009 statistics, there were 569 children with cochlear implants in Sweden (Barnplantorna, 2009d). In their January 2010 report, 628 children in Sweden had cochlear implants (Barnplantorna, 2010b).

https://ritdml.rit.edu/bitstream/handle/1850/12629/CSampThesis6-2010.pdf?sequence=1

Sweden population: 9.4 million with over 600 CIs in children. 1 CIed child for every 15,000 people.

U.S. population: 307 million with over 28,000 CIs in children (Cochlear Implants). 1 CIed child for every 11,000 people.

 

[amc5754]

I have been HoH for 30 years and my family doesn't make an effort to improve the communications especially in a group or noise setting. They know about things that would help but they don't try.

 

[mbrek]

Posts From Hell said, and I think this is absolutely brilliant, that if every elementary school made learning sign language compulsory, much if not most of the problems existing between the deaf and hearing would be eliminated.

I just wish ASL had been offered as a language option when I was in junior and senior high. I still remember some of the German I learned - but gee... don't think I'll be using it any time soon. I would have jumped at the chance to learn ASL instead. Funny, now it seems like I'll actually need it since I am HoH!

 

[Booger_Bender]

I really don't like Xmas eve and day and boxing day cos I have to be with whole family. They just ignore me. Like for example, I was trying to talk to one of them and he didn't answer to me, he act as if I am not there and other came up to talk to him and act as I wasn't there either. I tried but they just won't try with me.

Not nice for me. I always try get away as soon I can to my bedroom or other room to watch TV or laptop or read book.

I know how you feel. Trust me I'm in the same boat. At my age, no hearing person ( as of yet ) ever respected me for my presence. Not even my fiancee. it's just goes to show how ignorant some people are.

 

[Booger_Bender]

I have been HoH for 30 years and my family doesn't make an effort to improve the communications especially in a group or noise setting. They know about things that would help but they don't try.

Here's the funny part about all of this. almost 99.9% of Deaf people feel the same way. Hearing people should just go live on the moon. just saying.

 

[VacationGuy234]

How did we get from your belief that deaf people are not entitled to be included to racism then this, the Saab, the great socialist answer to capitalism? I mean, wha?

Whatever you're drinking, pass it along.

The Saab was created through government subsidies (legislation) which seemed to be a great idea in the beginning, but did not turn out to be so.

My point is that legislation alone, as in the case of racism, isn't going to solve the problem.

I'll give you the recipe for what I'm drinking. I do think you will like it.

 

[CSign]

I just wish ASL had been offered as a language option when I was in junior and senior high. I still remember some of the German I learned - but gee... don't think I'll be using it any time soon. I would have jumped at the chance to learn ASL instead. Funny, now it seems like I'll actually need it since I am HoH!

We are fortunate that now high schoolers have the opportunity to take ASL as their foreign language if they wish to do so. It is a shame it wasn't a recognized language earlier, but at least it is now.

 

[Beowulf]

We are fortunate that now high schoolers have the opportunity to take ASL as their foreign language if they wish to do so. It is a shame it wasn't a recognized language earlier, but at least it is now.

There's still the problem of having teachers qualified for it. A group of deafies want me to help them draft a letter requesting legislation requiring those who teach ASL in public schools be certified.

 

[DeafCaroline]

The Saab was created through government subsidies (legislation) which seemed to be a great idea in the beginning, but did not turn out to be so.

My point is that legislation alone, as in the case of racism, isn't going to solve the problem.

I'll give you the recipe for what I'm drinking. I do think you will like it.

Why do you think that changing the system is the same thing as changing legislation like they did to deal with racism? In fact, tell me exactly what legislation to deal with racism you are talking about, other than affirmative action?

You know, it was change of legislation that desegregated schools, gave woman voting rights, stopped child labour. Legislation is not always a bad thing.

I am trying to understand why you think changing the system is a bad thing and comparing it to legislation for racism or the socialist Saab car company failure when in fact, the changes I am suggesting is not so much to do with more legislation but changing how things are done, starting with uniting the deaf community with the medical community to give parents the best possible resources so their deaf child will have as many advantages and as high of a quality of education as their hearing peers. and still you compare this to socialist failures, Saab and legislation for racism that failed (one can only guess you mean legislation such as affirmative action, which is completely different from changing standards and methods for both parents of deaf kids and deaf kids themselves).

And sorry, but your Saab analogy really doesn't apply here, especially since in the same country where Saab comes from, the deaf and their families receive a far better quality of care and education then we do in North America and that, in itself, has not been a "socialist failure".

 

[kokonut]

Why do you think that changing the system is the same thing as changing legislation like they did to deal with racism? In fact, tell me exactly what legislation to deal with racism you are talking about, other than affirmative action?

You know, it was change of legislation that desegregated schools, gave woman voting rights, stopped child labour. Legislation is not always a bad thing.

I am trying to understand why you think changing the system is a bad thing and comparing it to legislation for racism or the socialist Saab car company failure when in fact, the changes I am suggesting is not so much to do with more legislation but changing how things are done, starting with uniting the deaf community with the medical community to give parents the best possible resources so their deaf child will have as many advantages and as high of a quality of education as their hearing peers. and still you compare this to socialist failures, Saab and legislation for racism that failed (one can only guess you mean legislation such as affirmative action, which is completely different from changing standards and methods for both parents of deaf kids and deaf kids themselves).

And sorry, but your Saab analogy really doesn't apply here, especially since in the same country where Saab comes from, the deaf and their families receive a far better quality of care and education then we do in North America and that, in itself, has not been a "socialist failure".

He didn't say it was a bad thing. He said that legislation alone won't solve the problem. It can address it but not solve the problem such as discriminatory attitudes.

 

[kokonut]

Kokonut, can you please change that gif in your signature, it's really distracting and hard on the eyes, not to mention it's a tad creepy.

Several times now, you've attempted to "clarify" what other posters were saying to me, I don't need your assistance, thanks.

You've put words into VG234's mouth saying that legislation is a bad thing. He never said such a thing nor implied it. He made it clear that legislation alone won't solve the problem.

I like my gif....it's funny.

 

[coolgirlspyer90]

hearing people coming and ask me teach them asl. then they excite and ask me asl of swear bad word. THAT IS ALL.. SIGNS FOR BAD WORD THAT THEY WANT KNOW. they not care for make convo with deaf person.

that's pretty much what it's like for me. Most people who met a deaf person for the first time they would ask me how to say this or that bad word. And i would get tired of it and i would say don't worry about it and they won't let me go away without telling them. But I do have friends who are trying to communicate in my language. I sometimes speak as i sign so they can learn a little bit faster. My percussion director, he's a new percussion director this year, and his sister which i recently learned has become a sign language interpreter and my percussion director knows some sign! and I got excited because none of the band staff has ever got the motivation to learn sign from me. I really wish that sometimes they would meet me halfway. I'm not asking for too much from them, just the simple ABC signs would be enough for me to get by in practice.