Why can't deaf people respect deaf people's choice of sign language?

Jane B. said:
Why should it have to in a country where English is the dominate language?
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ASL is the dominant language for deaf people in America.

ASL does not preclude anyone from also learning how to read and write English.
 
pixiestix said:
Please keep in mind that SEE was my first language and ASL was never used in schools growing up.
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Understood. It's not your fault; you were a victim of the educational philosophy in Deaf Ed that was prevalent during that time.

However, now that you are aware of what happened, you can take action to overcome that.

I do sign PSE, too. I just do not understand full blown ASL at all. I just want people to respect me and my signing as I respect their ASL signing even though I don't understand it if they speak full blown ASL.
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Have you taken formal classes in ASL? That would really benefit you, if you approach it with an open mind.

There's no "rule" that says you can't use both in different situations. Just because you learn ASL doesn't mean you have to toss out SEE completely.
 
pixiestix said:
Please keep in mind that SEE was my first language and ASL was never used in schools growing up.

I do sign PSE, too. I just do not understand full blown ASL at all. I just want people to respect me and my signing as I respect their ASL signing even though I don't understand it if they speak full blown ASL.
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If you don't repeatedly understand what they say, what would you do?
 
Jane B. said:
And I have never gotten a really good explanation of why it was allowed to continue to be using the French structure. When they were bringing it to the US it was known that English was the main spoken/written language!
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ASL evolved naturally. Nobody decided "Ok, it will follow the French structure." Thats not how natural languages work.

It has been stated here on AD several times why it is not English.
 
shel90 said:
ASL is a separate language. It is not English.
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Shes not saying it's English...she's saying that people in America that are going to learn it have English as their first language, so it's a harder adjustment than if someone whose first language is French were to learn it, because the structure is already familiar.
 
shel90 said:
ASL evolved naturally. Nobody decided "Ok, it will follow the French structure." Thats not how natural languages work.

It has been stated here on AD several times why it is not English.
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erm, there's no such thing as 'natural language' it is ALWAYS ALWAYS culturally and ideologically loaded ALWAYS...just so that happens sign language is more accessiable and easier to use, doesnt mean its 'natural', it never is. "Second nature", maybe yes, but its never natural, even for deaf babies with Deaf parent , sign language isnt natural, never!.
true and im not saying this to make SL look wrong, English is never natural for hearing people, niether is French or German or Tongan.
Drawing is natural either, it is learned, or some might say gifted - well thats another story...

G
 
ambrosia said:
Shes not saying it's English...she's saying that people in America that are going to learn it have English as their first language, so it's a harder adjustment than if someone whose first language is French were to learn it, because the structure is already familiar.
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It is better if deaf children have a strong first language foundation than with none with happens to wayyyy to many deaf children for the sake of learning English first and then ASL later. I have seen it again and again and again and again.

It is a shame because poeple are so fixated on English as being the ultimate and only language one must learn. It is possible to learn more than one but in the country, that concept is too hard for many people to understand.
 
Grummer said:
erm, there's no such thing as 'natural language' it is ALWAYS ALWAYS culturally and ideologically loaded ALWAYS...just so that happens sign language is more accessiable and easier to use, doesnt mean its 'natural', it never is. "Second nature", maybe yes, but its never natural, even for deaf babies with Deaf parent , sign language isnt natural, never!.
true and im not saying this to make SL look wrong, English is never natural for hearing people, niether is French or German or Tongan.
Drawing is natural either, it is learned, or some might say gifted - well thats another story...

G
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All languages are natural. They werent planned out.
 
CrazyPaul said:
The OP will have a hard time to find new friends who listen to and/or sign SEE. REALLY! SEE turns alot of ASLers off. She should know better. If she wants to hang out with ASLers, then she would have to learn ASL to have better communication with them. ASL is fun and beautiful.
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Thus, the thread.
 
shel90 said:
It is better if deaf children have a strong first language foundation than with none with happens to wayyyy to many deaf children for the sake of learning English first and then ASL later. I have seen it again and again and again and again.

It is a shame because poeple are so fixated on English as being the ultimate and only language one must learn. It is possible to learn more than one but in the country, that concept is too hard for many people to understand.
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:shock: what does that have to do with what I said?? I'm not even saying that any adjustments should be made to ASL. I was just explaining to you what she meant......because you didn't seem to understand. That an American learning ASL (which it is American sign language so the people that learn it aren't going to be French) later in life, like for instance to teach their deaf child!!! so they have language!! is going to have a harder time learning it than a French person, who wouldn't even learn it in the first place because it's American sign language....because of the structure.
 
ambrosia said:
Shes not saying it's English...she's saying that people in America that are going to learn it have English as their first language, so it's a harder adjustment than if someone whose first language is French were to learn it, because the structure is already familiar.
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shel90 said:
It is better if deaf children have a strong first language foundation than with none with happens to wayyyy to many deaf children for the sake of learning English first and then ASL later. I have seen it again and again and again and again.

It is a shame because poeple are so fixated on English as being the ultimate and only language one must learn. It is possible to learn more than one but in the country, that concept is too hard for many people to understand.
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ambrosia comes the closest to "getting" what I have long had trouble trying to express.

I am talking about years and years ago. Why was FRENCH structure used in a country where ENGLISH was the dominate language of more people? Even way back then I would have thought that it was known that signers were more likely to have to deal with hearing people that used English. In that case it would make sense to me to use ENGLISH structure rather than FRENCH to make the transition to written language easier.

Still not sure if I am expressing this in a way that gets across to others what I am feeling.
 
ambrosia said:
:shock: what does that have to do with what I said?? I'm not even saying that any adjustments should be made to ASL. I was just explaining to you what she meant......because you didn't seem to understand. That an American learning ASL (which it is American sign language so the people that learn it aren't going to be French) later in life, like for instance to teach their deaf child!!! so they have language!! is going to have a harder time learning it than a French person, who wouldn't even learn it in the first place because it's American sign language....because of the structure.
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People have attempted to change ASL to follow English structure (SEE) and it still doesnt work for the majority of deaf children.

I totally understand what Jane said because she has brought up that question and complained about how ASL doesnt follow English before in other threads.
 
Jane B. said:
ambrosia comes the closest to "getting" what I have long had trouble trying to express.

I am talking about years and years ago. Why was FRENCH structure used in a country where ENGLISH was the dominate language of more people? Even way back then I would have thought that it was known that signers were more likely to have to deal with hearing people that used English. In that case it would make sense to me to use ENGLISH structure rather than FRENCH to make the transition to written language easier.

Still not sure if I am expressing this in a way that gets across to others what I am feeling.
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If you want a good answer then take linguistics class in both languages. That will give you a deeper understanding. I didnt understand until I studied it in grad school. It is hard to explain to anyone unless they have a full understanding of how languages work and how they evolve.
 
Quoted by my friend:

I think the misconceptions come from the fact that ASL is American and thus should be equivalent to English. What people don't realize is English is not American, its really British. I believe that ASL is more American than English will ever be. So... Let's advocate that spoken English follow the ASL grammar structure and rules. It makes just as much sense as requiring ASL to follow English!
 
It shouldn't be that hard to understand that ASL and English do not equate.

A visual language , ( ASL ) is processed differently by the brain, and English order doesn't make sense.
 
Let's get back to the first issue that the OP brought up. RESPECT! Why can't the users of the different forms (SEE, PSE, ASL) show respect to the users of the others and their right to use which ever they prefer?
 
Jane B. said:
Let's get back to the first issue that the OP brought up. RESPECT! Why can't the users of the different forms (SEE, PSE, ASL) show respect to the users of the others and their right to use which ever they prefer?
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You are the one who derailed it.

However the issue with a persistent SEE user is that it is hard to understand by ASL users.

PSE has more leeway.
 
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