Why Are Men Dominating the Debate About Birth Control for Women?

[Journey]

Nope, I have long said that if you can not properly care for a child do not bring that child into the world. Men can go to thousands of drug stores (among other places) an buy condoms. Women can get b/c at the same drug stores. Where it comes to cost, you should be prepared to pay for your own. If having sex is so important to you, the cost of b/c has to be accounted for. If anyone has a good head on his/her shoulders they certainly know to use protection and hold themself accountable.
Those that do not take the necessary steps and do have a child they can not support are drainning the rest of us. They want free everything mention in your quote above, with or without a kid. So having a kid makes no difference to them...they still want their "freebies".

I think you are missing the millions of people being thought about when considering free BC ... the wives and girlfriends of men who refuse to go buy and wear a condom, the women (young and old) who cannot afford to go to the doctor to obtain prescriptions for BC (for health or contraceptive reasons), the young women who are too embarrassed or afraid (often due to family beliefs) to go to the doctor for prescriptions (for either health or contraceptive reasons), the women whose husbands refuse to get vasectomies ... To say to both women and men, if you can't afford BC, don't have sex or don't have health problems, is narrow-minded and short-sighted to say the least.

 

[DeafCaroline]

Let me help you out DC.

I have the right to hearing aids and my insurance does not cover them.
Are you, DC, going to pay ofr them? Tax dollars?

I have a right to hearing aid batteries and my insurance does not cover them.
Are you, DC, going to pay for them? Tax dollars?

I have a right to good healthy teeth and my insurance does not cover them.
Are you, DC, going to pay? Tax dollars?

Don't worry I wont ask you to pay. I worked for over 50 years and planned for the days and I can pay for anything the insurance does not cover. Try to remember for over 50 years all that $$$ I paid in permiums. Why should MY tax dollars be needed to pay for those who take no responsibilities of themself? Remember I started with nothing, just like they did. Only difference is, I never went looking for a handout but pulled myself up by the bootstraps. (no, I'm not patting myself on the back...because..that is what is expected of everyone)

:roll:

 

[rolling7]

Anybody should have a right to get BCs or else. I don't think sex does come without consequence. Sounds so impossible, but sex is not a crime or pregnancy is not a punishment, is a matter of cause and effect...

Someone chose to have sex,
Someone chose to or not to use protection,
Someone chose to ignore or to aware the risks and responsibilities that come with having unsafe sex with the drunk person from the bar someone don't even know the name of.
Someone chose to use protection but may or may not ignore the risks and responsibilities.
Go on...

I don't know why people think sex does come without consequence.

Here on AD we have had this discussion numerous times. And your quote above is spot-on.

The problem is getting to the point of who pays for the consequences. It should not be and can not be you nor me nor out tax dollars. The individuals have to pay for their own consequences 100%.

 

[Journey]

Ok, here's what you are missing. At least as far as the U.S. is concerned.

A) Rights- Churches have them. Religion is specifically named in the Bill of Rights unlike birth control. They cannot be forced to pay for or provide something that goes against their beliefs.

B) Cost- We already have low cost birth control. Planned Parenthood, which is subsidized by the federal government provides low cost birth control sometimes it's even free. We also have medicaid, free clinics and state programs for the extremely poor.

C) Politics- Obama could have proposed this as a government plan which would have made more sense since theoretically this will save the government money in the long run. But that could potentially cost him votes especially among women (ironically) and minorities. So Obama chose to put this mandate upon the private sector in order to frame them as the "bad guy". Now instead of facing the music he can deflect and say "look at the way religion/business hates women and many of his followers will fall for that.

Thank you for your feedback , I will mull these things over before I can respond.

 

[DeafCaroline]

Here on AD we have had this discussion numerous times. And your quote above is spot-on.

The problem is getting to the point of who pays for the consequences. It should not be and can not be you nor me nor out tax dollars. The individuals have to pay for their own consequences 100%.

but they don't. apparently the number one question lawyers get asked by men is how to avoid paying child support.

So much for taking responsibility.

 

[KarissaMann05]

Here on AD we have had this discussion numerous times. And your quote above is spot-on.

The problem is getting to the point of who pays for the consequences. It should not be and can not be you nor me nor out tax dollars. The individuals have to pay for their own consequences 100%.

No. I am saying that sex is a right but it bother me that people claimed sex is not effect and cause... It is about a choice to have sex. Some BCs should not be so expensive because it actually, seemingly, encourages more unwanted pregnancy, unsafe sexual activity, and etc... If condoms are cheaper, then others should be, IMO.

 

[rolling7]

I think you are missing the millions of people being thought about when considering free BC ... the wives and girlfriends of men who refuse to go buy and wear a condom, the women (young and old) who cannot afford to go to the doctor to obtain prescriptions for BC (for health or contraceptive reasons), the young women who are too embarrassed or afraid (often due to family beliefs) to go to the doctor for prescriptions (for either health or contraceptive reasons), the women whose husbands refuse to get vasectomies ... To say to both women and men, if you can't afford BC, don't have sex or don't have health problems, is narrow-minded and short-sighted to say the least.

I won't come back and say this is all about excuses because I know people have differences of opinions. Nevertheless, there are proper solutions to each of the cases you have stated above.

First, if a wife/gf of a guy knows he wont take HIS responsibility of B/C then that wife/gf can say: "There is the door...don't let it hit your butt on the way out".

Second, the women who can't afford b/c can always learn about their bodies and know their days to avoid having intercourse. And also they should require their partner to help with the expense of b/c, they are certainly able to say "No, until.."

Afraid due to family beliefs. Well a young lady living at home certainly better follow her parents. But once she is an adult and able to stand on her own two feet, she should head straight to the doctor's office on her own.

A baby is 50% the male and 50% the female but b/c HAS to be 100% for the male and 100% for the female. In otherwords, BOTH have to take whatever action necessary to control their impuses and take responsibility of their actions and be prepared for the consequencies. If no...just say NO.

Narrow-minded and short-sighted!!!! Ok, I give you the benifit of doubt and am willing to listen to your solution to the smart and logical ways and you can list your solutions to the above situations you brought up.

After all....if you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.

 

[saywhatkid]

Why bring up their race at all? Just because someone is white he can't participate?

Seems to me that your opinion on birth control would matter more in this thread, than trying to find fault in me, but whatever floats your boat. Also, I really don't care who posts in here; I just find it less thrilling to debate BC with guys. They don't have the same things at stake in the debate.

 

[rolling7]

No. I am saying that sex is a right but it bother me that people claimed sex is not effect and cause... It is about a choice to have sex. Some BCs should not be so expensive because it actually, seemingly, encourages more unwanted pregnancy, unsafe sexual activity, and etc... If condoms are cheaper, then others should be, IMO.

Your opinion is excellent. All I would do is ask you to look at the cost this way

A pack of condoms cost $$ and the guys has to spend that $$ regularly.

B/C pills cost $$ and a woman has to get a refill regularly.

Vasectomines cost $$$$ but this is a one time expense, so over the life time the real cost is $$

Sterlization cost $$$$ but this is a one time expense, so over the life time the real cost is $$

(note I did not include women going to their Ob/Gyn which is an additional cost, however I myself go to my doctor 3 times a year and I talk myself blue in the face to get other men to also go to the doctor for a check-up)

So my point would be $$ = $$, the cost and consequences are equal on both sides of the male/female equation. IMO that has to be.

 

[rolling7]

Seems to me that your opinion on birth control would matter more in this thread, than trying to find fault in me, but whatever floats your boat. Also, I really don't care who posts in here; I just find it less thrilling to debate BC with guys. They don't have the same things at stake in the debate.

Yes we do. We have an equal stake in the responsibility of protection and the consequence of intercourse. As the matter of fact, we have to be the first to take responsible actions.

 

[saywhatkid]

Yes we do. We have an equal stake in the responsibility of protection and the consequence of intercourse. As the matter of fact, we have to be the first to take responsible actions.

Equal stake? Then why is the committee composed of all men?

 

[JabberJay]

Equal stake? Then why is the committee composed of all men?

equal stake? ok I haven't seen the list of complications and percentages of death for guys in labor, but I thought for sure that it was lower for men than women.
I think the chances of a woman getting pregnant and going through labor are higher than a guys as well, but I may be wrong.

When guys have to push a 8 pound baby out a small hole in their body, then I will say it is equal risk. Cannot convince me different

 

[Journey]

I won't come back and say this is all about excuses because I know people have differences of opinions. Nevertheless, there are proper solutions to each of the cases you have stated above.

First, if a wife/gf of a guy knows he wont take HIS responsibility of B/C then that wife/gf can say: "There is the door...don't let it hit your butt on the way out".

Second, the women who can't afford b/c can always learn about their bodies and know their days to avoid having intercourse. And also they should require their partner to help with the expense of b/c, they are certainly able to say "No, until.."

Afraid due to family beliefs. Well a young lady living at home certainly better follow her parents. But once she is an adult and able to stand on her own two feet, she should head straight to the doctor's office on her own.

A baby is 50% the male and 50% the female but b/c HAS to be 100% for the male and 100% for the female. In otherwords, BOTH have to take whatever action necessary to control their impuses and take responsibility of their actions and be prepared for the consequencies. If no...just say NO.

Narrow-minded and short-sighted!!!! Ok, I give you the benifit of doubt and am willing to listen to your solution to the smart and logical ways and you can list your solutions to the above situations you brought up.

After all....if you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.

I do not disagree with the proposed solutions you provided nor do I disagree that all actions have risks or consequences. However, all of this is based on ideal circumstances ... mature-thinking, clear-headed, sex-educated, financially-capable, cooperative-partnered, openly-communicative, healthy, mistake-avoiding individuals (both male and female). Unfortunately, this does not include an entire population. I believe the solution lies in clinics and hospitals offering free BC to individuals in need for whatever reason. Here, my entire family has access to free BC. However, we do not have a need for it to be free so we have dealt with it through prescriptions, drugstores and surgery (thank goodness for universal healthcare). We feel fortunate that we can do so and willingly let a minutiae of our tax dollars offer BC options to others in need of it because, in the long run, this benefit to others benefits us and our community.

 

[rolling7]

equal stake? ok I haven't seen the list of complications and percentages of death for guys in labor, but I thought for sure that it was lower for men than women.
I think the chances of a woman getting pregnant and going through labor are higher than a guys as well, but I may be wrong.

When guys have to push a 8 pound baby out a small hole in their body, then I will say it is equal risk. Cannot convince me different

Then I won't try to convince you different because you are so tired up in apples/oranges.

You are correct that childbirth is a physical act exclusive of the female but I've never heard of a female getting pg. without a little help from a male (note: don't anyone takes us off-topic with the virgin Mary). So my point would be that conception (the real reason for this thread-i.e. B/C) is equally the stake of both the male and female.

On a side note, the stake for the cost of raising and supporting the child for (legally) 18 years is equal for the male and female.

 

[Beowulf]

Jeez. Has anyone had a relationship with an Amazon?

 

[rolling7]

I do not disagree with the proposed solutions you provided nor do I disagree that all actions have risks or consequences. However, all of this is based on ideal circumstances ... mature-thinking, clear-headed, sex-educated, financially-capable, cooperative-partnered, openly-communicative, healthy, mistake-avoiding individuals (both male and female). Unfortunately, this does not include an entire population. I believe the solution lies in clinics and hospitals offering free BC to individuals in need for whatever reason. Here, my entire family has access to free BC. However, we do not have a need for it to be free so we have dealt with it through , prescriptions, drugstores and surgery (thank goodness for universal healthcare). We feel fortunate that we can do so and willingly let a minutiae of our tax dollars offer BC options to others in need of it because, in the long run, this benefit to others benefits us and our community.

You posted your solution and I would ask that you re-read the above and re-think it based on one and only one word: FREE. You would immediately know where I'm going with this: someone IS paying and it ain't free. The only free would be those whom want to live free and pay for no consequences. My family and your family have to stand strong and make sure each member understand the consequence of any and all actions. While both families have to give others in the world the right to live their life as they wish (within legal bounds) our families can not be made to suffer the consequences of these people. All events in life require planning ahead and intercourse and other sexual actions are no different. So people planning on having sex... this hour, today, tomorrow, whenever..better plan for b/c ahead of time. And ahead of time means getting off your butt to go EARN and pay the cost of that b/c
(do recall that I have always said this is more the makes responsibility but the female does have responsibility also).

 

[rolling7]

Equal stake? Then why is the committee composed of all men?

I'm on your side on this matter but it is the voters who send these jokers to Congress. All we can hope for is that more women are elected to Congress.

 

[Beowulf]

(do recall that I have always said this is more the makes responsibility but the female does have responsibility also).

No shit, Sherlock!

 

[Journey]

You posted your solution and I would ask that you re-read the above and re-think it based on one and only one word: FREE. You would immediately know where I'm going with this: someone IS paying and it ain't free. The only free would be those whom want to live free and pay for no consequences. My family and your family have to stand strong and make sure each member understand the consequence of any and all actions. While both families have to give others in the world the right to live their life as they wish (within legal bounds) our families can not be made to suffer the consequences of these people. All events in life require planning ahead and intercourse and other sexual actions are no different. So people planning on having sex... this hour, today, tomorrow, whenever..better plan for b/c ahead of time. And ahead of time means getting off your butt to go EARN and pay the cost of that b/c
(do recall that I have always said this is more the makes responsibility but the female does have responsibility also).

Of course someone is paying for it and I acknowledged that when I stated that I "willingly let a minutiae of our tax dollars offer BC options to others in need of it because, in the long run, this benefit to others benefits us and our community." I also don't mind that some of my tax dollars go toward the collective pot for healthcare which helps myself, my family and complete strangers. It is a small price to pay for the returns. I feel the same way when I pay my car or house insurance premiums. I have not made a claim on either of them yet I continue to willingly pay my 'share' year after year. Why? Because, in terms perhaps you better understand, "There but for the grace of God go I". So, we can talk about planning on having sex, being responsible, educating others, paying for your choices but, the fact remains, many who are in need of BC cannot readily access it or afford it (for some of the reasons I have mentioned in an earlier post). My place is not to judge why they are in need, my place is to judge whether I can afford and consent to a few cents or a few dollars each year to help contribute to a better community. I can and I do.

 

[Journey]

Ok, here's what you are missing. At least as far as the U.S. is concerned.

A) Rights- Churches have them. Religion is specifically named in the Bill of Rights unlike birth control. They cannot be forced to pay for or provide something that goes against their beliefs.

B) Cost- We already have low cost birth control. Planned Parenthood, which is subsidized by the federal government provides low cost birth control sometimes it's even free. We also have medicaid, free clinics and state programs for the extremely poor.

C) Politics- Obama could have proposed this as a government plan which would have made more sense since theoretically this will save the government money in the long run. But that could potentially cost him votes especially among women (ironically) and minorities. So Obama chose to put this mandate upon the private sector in order to frame them as the "bad guy". Now instead of facing the music he can deflect and say "look at the way religion/business hates women and many of his followers will fall for that.

Ok, I have given this some thought and appreciate you laying it out for me as you did, it was helpful thank you. As for my own thoughts in response - well they won't be as succinct but here goes ...
a) I come from a place where hospitals are not run by the Church (any church), so the idea that any healthcare is mandated by religious beliefs (outside the home or church itself) boggles my mind. And that, in itself, is a whole other topic ha!
b) Such a fight by so many over the cost - has anyone arguing the idea, based on cost, really crunched the numbers of providing free birth control to those in need vs the long term costs of unwanted pregnancies or other associated health issues if BC is not provided? *see article link below*
c)This one I will not comment on simply because I don't want to get into the whole "the left is evil/the right is evil" nature of US politics which is counterproductive and pisses me off (how's that for honesty haha).

Why Free Birth Control Will Not Hike the Cost of Your Insurance | Moneyland | TIME.com