What would you think if....

Correct me here, but wasnt the KJV based on the textus receptus and the Bishops among others? The Vatinican was discovered around 1400 and not used for the bulk of the KJV as it is currently called.

The KJV was the third English translation done about 1604 to 1611. This was begun by King James convening the Hampton Court conference. This was done because the Geneva bible did not meet the needs of the new Puritan movement. However, King James gave strict orders to the translators that the texts would strictly conform to the ecclisiology of the Church of England. Using the aforementioned texts, the translators were allowed to consult a list of approved texts for clarification. I am thinking that the Geneva bible, the Taverners bible and the Great Bible were on the "approved" list. (perhaps a couple of others?)

I have derailed my own thread. Argh. If allowed by the moderators, I would like to take this topic to it's own thread, yet it is deadly close to religion rather than textual history.

BTW, our preacher cannot discuss these topics with me and believes in the infallibility of the KJV and does not recognize prior texts or textual history of the bible and has never studied any of the Aramaic Papyri. ech.

The idea of some of the original texts was that each symbol was both a number and a "letter". The texts could be read both from the left and right. The numbers had meanings and each letter had meanings. Therefore each "word" had multiple meanings and was generally used for meditation and certainly not to be taken literally. For example, In The Beginning... has hundreds of rabinical translations. The "reading" was to be allegorical and not literal. So the readings or meanings could be true on multiple levels simultaneously. Hence, I am of the opinion that a literal interpretation of the original Aramaic brings discredit. Each literal translation takes you further away, rather like the child's game of "rumors". I also agree that some aspects of Protestantism fueled literalism.

This is just history, not dogma. Please readers, do not be offended.
 
Well, if I were you... next time, just speak up and have all the eyes on him. You cannot allow someone to treat you with a great deal of disrespect to your identity.
 
Banjo, I kicked myself all the way home. I was just too shocked at the time to think! Aren't there always those times? "I should have.."
You are most correct!
 
Wirelessly posted

The preacher was wrong to shift the blame onto the Deafies, when he should be addressing the Hearies who were getting distracted by gawking.
 
LDNanna said:
I just left church. We have a small Deaf section. We sit off to the side of the church. Our interpretor sits where she can see a monitor and since she is very hoh, beside a speaker.

I have often wondered why we have our own "section" rather than the 'terp sitting near the preacher. Today he told us (our small deaf group) that it was because "the devil was using sign language as a way to distract the rest of the congregation from the sermon". (the hearing were watching the terp)

I am much too shocked to think. Please would you give me your off - the - cuff opinion on this?

All members are welcomed to give opionions, regardless of hearing status. Mind you, this is the only deaf service in our town though.
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Sometimes terp placement is a matter of logistics. Where can the terp be seen most clearly? Where can the terp hear and see what's going on best? Does the church have a good sound system? Do they use a projection screen? How many deaf members attend regularly? Do they prefer to sit together or do they prefer to sit with other family and friends in different locations? Do they want to sit close to the front for better viewing, and therefor prefer reserved seats? How is the lighting? Is the platform large enough to accommodate a terp? Does the pastor preach from one position, or does he stride all over the platform? There are many reasons. Each church sets up differently.

However, the answer your pastor gave was totally inappropriate. Unless your terp is a sexy young thing wearing revealing clothing, or behaving in an unprofessional way, that wouldn't even be an issue. (If your terp is behaving that way, she shouldn't be interpreting in church at all.)

I've interpreted for church services, Sunday School classes, and in college classrooms. After the initial appearance of a terp, most people don't pay any attention to me. Even if they do, it's rarely to the extent that they don't pay attention to what else is going on.

I hate to say this but sometimes it's an ego thing with the presenter, whether it be a pastor, teacher, politician, or whatever. A friend of mine once had to share screen time with a TV news person during pre-hurricane preparation announcements. The newscaster asked the emergency preparedness director, "Does she (the terp) have to stand so close to me?" (My terp friend was younger and prettier than the aging mini-skirted newscaster, and she didn't like the contrast.)

If the preacher is doing his job and the Holy Spirit is present in that body of believers, then there is nothing normally that a terp would do that could distract the congregation from God's Word.

The other side of the question is this: Do you and the other deaf members prefer sitting together, or would you prefer not to?
 
LDNanna said:
All of you have written thoughts that have gone through my mind. Well, some of them funnier and much more insightful than my meager capabilities.

I am still reeling from this hurtful comment he made. Hands were flying at our table after services! (this is where he told us)

Before this church I was watching an interpreted service online. It was nice, and so was simply reading. Yet, there was a lot to miss out on.

I did send the preacher some educational videos about deaf culture. This is the only way I communicate with him unless there is a terp present. Do you have any videos such as youtube or some such recommendations that he could watch and understand or maybe learn from? (Assuming that he will watch them) Since he does not know asl, he is English only keep this in mind.

Thanks for your feedback!
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I'm curious. What does your church terp say about this? Has she spoken to the pastor? Did she explain to him anything about the interpreting process?
 
whatdidyousay! said:
I would had reported the preacher to his Superiors!
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In some churches, that would be God.

That is outrageous and he should not be allowed to preach until he made a public apology to you in church!
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Who would prohibit him from preaching? It depends on the denomination.
 
LDNanna said:
@ Reba - I was hoping to get your feedback. Where we sit, we are by the musical instruments. Our HOH terp has a bit of trouble understanding everything over there. She signs " quizzical face - something" many times in the service. We cannot see the preacher and the terp at the same time. To us, our terp is the preacher. You know what I mean, right?
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Yes, I do know what you mean. That's why I mentioned logistics. It's especially difficult when one is interpreting in a make-do situation. In our church, the building was never intended to house so many people in the congregation. Also, originally, the front platform included only the pastor and his assistants, the choir, the organ, and an upright piano. Over the years, they've added a large video screen, a keyboard, a grand piano, and an orchestra. They've modified the lighting and sound system. All in the same original footprint. It's a very tight squeeze. I hold my breath watching people go up or down the platform because I expect someone to fall off at any time (there have been some close calls). Retrofitting everything into older buildings can be difficult.

Seriously, how can I take his sermon at word now? I am personally tired of educating sometimes. Also I am anxious to see what our deaf group meeting comes up with on this. People do drive in to meet here once a month from all over this area and visit from many others. We are hoping for a full group from about 30 to 60 people as this is a wide area with a low deaf population, but that would be a good turn-out for us.
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Is there some way you can get a deaf preacher for your church? That is, maybe you could still use the church's facilities but have your own services?

Here's the crux of the situation. Does your present church have a true Deaf-led Deaf ministry, or is it a church that happens to provide a terp to meet minimum requirements, or is it something in between? Your answer will probably show you the direction you want to take.
 
Reba, there are from 6 to 10 of us normally but up to 30 when we can all drive in. It is a 2 hour drive for many and most work 6 to 7 days a week in the oil field or field related businesses.
When we have our deaf club meeting there are 20 to 60 tops. We have a hearing congregation of about 40 to 50.
Our terp is modest and a Godly woman. She is in all ways good. Really.
We might like to sit where we could see see the preacher. That we do agree on. The sanctuary is square. He stands in the far left corner. He is a podium hugger and does not traverse the area. The far left wall is for the music and the back left corner is us. The center is diagonal chairs facing the preacher.
>preacher door>

Music chairs electronics area

<Us door electronics<

rather like this. The terp sits between us and the music. This was just an old office building that was made vacant a number of years.

Thanks for your specific feedback. Church is important to us. We are few. Some feel that we just have to "take it". sigh.
 
Find another church. This preacher probably isn't teaching the word correctly any way. Those type of preachers are the same one's that say that God designed people of color to be slaves and discriminated against; i've visited churches like that.

Im also not sure how a hearing person can be distracted by the interpretor considering that they can hear. Unless the preacher doesn't speak and just requires everyone to read from a screen, im not sure how someone hearing can be distracted. That guy is being discriminatory and not following what is in the Bible.

Find another church!
 
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