What would you change about your past experience as a deaf student?

[AlleyCat]

Curious, I know here there is a point that a child can drop out of school without parents approval. Would this not go for enrolling into a deaf school? I am not positive of all the ins and outs. I was emancipated at 14 so changing schools was not much of an issue for me..

I am not sure what the laws are in my state, but there is no way I would have been able to drop out of my school and still been able to live at home. I would've been homeless at that point. I really didn't have support from extended family or friends that might've been able to help out.

 

[Jezie]

I am not sure what the laws are in my state, but there is no way I would have been able to drop out of my school and still been able to live at home. I would've been homeless at that point. I really didn't have support from extended family or friends that might've been able to help out.

Ahh understood.
Should be a way to educate the children...but then schools are masters with controlling information and how one thinks. One would think that it would have been obvious by now that the deaf adults not the hearing parents should have had more say in the school, seeings as they would have had a lot more experience in it.....
Hmm but I admit I know little on this.

 

[hoichi]

What was wrong with leaving it where everyone signs....its a deaf school? I do not mean to seem as if I am argumentive ...I am just curious...

Because its about assimilation. Theb goal. Everyone must become hearie. If you cant hear then fake it,if you cant hear the speaking, learn to mimic so hearie can undeestsnd you. if you can understsnd them is really irrelavant to their ideology. the ideology of oralism. Its a one way street.
This has been. Long.fight and resistsnce and it has ebbed and flowed. Most hearies despise sign. and are audist to the bone. from the time of the hartford school for.deaf till ater the civil war deafs schools used sign, after rhe civil.war oralism gained sterngth. and gained deep deep pockets. There are a number of reasons.for this. The idea that prior to the civil war.the main.push to educate deaf was to save their souls.give them.the gospel have them.understand it...gaulladet is one example here. And sign does that just fine...after the civil sign started to.be frowned upun and looked.at as forign and not as Deafs natural langauge but a debasement.that is unbleb to allow Deaf to be workers which of course is false. But it wasnt about facts..it was about ideology...oralism along with sociall darwinism and eugenic. All three are bedfellows, connected at the hip, they rose along with each other . Thus oralism gained acceptance not by results it actually was a total falure but by ideology and bigotry riding aong the scientific bandwagon. By name but itself not even.remotely a sience. The idea the natural state for human biengs is to speak, and nothing else. Oralism is directly tied to the eugenics movement. Bell was an adherent and supporter of both. And he had sadly very very deep pockets. So taking deaf schools was a prime way to attack sign then they fired all the deaf teachers, then they seperated deaf students from eachother, lest they revert to being Deaf, sign was forbiden in the schools. deaf kkds would.have their hands tied at their sides or behind their backs and be forced to speak. Regardless if they ubderstood a word or sound at all...you will be assimilated. This stopped in.canads in1983, for mosT schools. only after wwii did cracks show in oralisms hold, mainly due to how close oralism and eugenics are to nazi ideology, then sign started ro be recognized as a language in the 60s, due to stoake and others. Then sign started commng back to Schools. Then the implant changed everything....and the tide is again turning..
This is s nutshell here are some good books to read.
Inside deaf culture by humohries,
Will give u a good detailed look at our schools their history and development,
Undeestsndinf deaf culture by paddy lads. Is more academic and allot larger with more detailed scope and deals with the brit and americsn experiencd of Deaf
Forbiden signs....
This is a must if you want to understand the war on sign language, snd whats happened and is happining
The mask of benevolance from harlan lane
Is snother must to understsnd audisms deep roots and the disabiling of.Dreaf and role ci plays in the destruction of our culture.

 

[Jezie]

I can see what you say about the CI for it is just a modern way of tying the kids hands. As for the books, I will be sure to loon them up. Sadly, the library has little on the subject.
Have too much experience at faking it...that should not be a policy for anyone...
What was it about the civil war that caused the shift to change?
As for "hearies despising sign" I am not sure about this. I think it is more along the lines of not understanding. Hence you get deaf people stabbed for throwing gang signs and people going nuts about what they don't know. People should mind their own business, yet most are too worried about what others are saying to allow the natives, immigrants, and the deaf to use their native languages... For heaven forbid they might be talking about you...

 

[hoichi]

I can see what you say about the CI for it is just a modern way of tying the kids hands. As for the books, I will be sure to loon them up. Sadly, the library has little on the subject.
Have too much experience at faking it...that should not be a policy for anyone...
What was it about the civil war that caused the shift to change?
As for "hearies despising sign" I am not sure about this. I think it is more along the lines of not understanding. Hence you get deaf people stabbed for throwing gang signs and people going nuts about what they don't know. People should mind their own business, yet most are too worried about what others are saying to allow the natives, immigrants, and the deaf to use their native languages... For heaven forbid they might be talking about you...

Think mosT those books.can be had on bookzz
Trust me
the vast vast vast vast vast majority od hearie are audist to rhe bone, and despise sign....
you can take my signs to the bank on this...
Ci. Paddy ladd elequently put
Is oralisms final solution.....

 

[Jezie]

I admit I do not have a lot of experience with it. What experiences have you had that they despise sign?
Final solution...possibly, or just their strongest card right now and yeah it is a good one...but it doesn't have to be.

 

[hoichi]

T

I admit I do not have a lot of experience with it. What experiences have you had that they despise sign?
Final solution...possibly, or just their strongest card right now and yeah it is a good one...but it doesn't have to be.

They will always have a stronger card, they have billions, and are heavly invested in resesarch to always improve the technology....
They wont stop
They have more.loot, more.resources, that translates into being able to shape public opinion and political policy, its an entire industry founded to rid the world of people like us.
Just my experience with hearie the vast vast majority despose sign...

 

[Jezie]

They will always have a stronger card, they have billions, and sre heavly invested in resesarch to always improve the technology....
They wont stop
They hve mkre.loot, mkre.resources, that translates into being sble tonshwpe public opinion and pokiticl policy, its an entire industry founded to rid the world of people like us.
Just my experience with hearie the vast vast majority despose sign...

Hmm I will concede your point is valid. But I still say it doesn't have to be....

 

[AlleyCat]

Jezie, what is your background and what are you looking for on this forum?

 

[Tousi]

They will always have a stronger card, they have billions, and sre heavly invested in resesarch to always improve the technology....
They wont stop
They hve mkre.loot, mkre.resources, that translates into being sble tonshwpe public opinion and pokiticl policy, its an entire industry founded to rid the world of people like us.
Just my experience with hearie the vast vast majority despose sign...

Yup,......until we are an economic/political bloc.....

 

[hoichi]

Hmm I will concede your point is valid. But I still say it doesn't have to be....

Yeah well history is littered with the fossil remains of minority cultures gone to dust in the face of an overwhelming msjority culture which sought assimimilation.
No point to ignnore the resoruces of the majority here,snd deep pockets of multi national profit driven companies which sre psrtners with lesding medical institutions and have stste suport.
I cn ignore.that snd think happy thoughts...
Or i can.see whst they sre doinG and see the resukts,both short snd long term.
I can ssy doesnt have to be all i want...
Reality is a different matter.

 

[Jezie]

Jezie, what is your background and what are you looking for on this forum?

What do you mean what is my background? Forum as in alldeaf?

 

[Jezie]

Yeah well history is littered with the fossil remains of minority cultures gone to dust in the face of an overwhelming msjority culture which sought assimimilation.
No point to ignnore the resoruces of the majority here,snd deep pockets of multi national profit driven companies which sre psrtners with lesding medical institutions and have stste suport.
I cn ignore.that snd think happy thoughts...
Or i can.see whst they sre doinG and see the resukts,both short snd long term.
I can ssy doesnt have to be all i want...
Reality is a different matter.

Truth, sadly one does not even have to look too far into history to find evidence in that. However one can look at the mori and hope...

 

[deafdyke]

T

They will always have a stronger card, they have billions, and are heavly invested in resesarch to always improve the technology....
They wont stop
They have more.loot, more.resources, that translates into being able to shape public opinion and political policy, its an entire industry founded to rid the world of people like us.
Just my experience with hearie the vast vast majority despose sign...

Most hearing people could care less about dhh people.... but yes, the ones who are involved tend to have a very pathological view of deafness.... It IS about money...it IS about capitalizing on the grief of hearing parents, and about functioning As Normally As Possible.

 

[deafdyke]

Can I ask a question, just to better understand? What is deaf schools like? I understand that yes, as a deaf student you would be among others with same language and the like. But wouldn't the experience be the same, as far as kids, in general, are mean to others. People form groups, people will get picked on, you have your out groups and in groups, ect... But I realize all this is assumptions. So what are deaf schools like?

Yes, there's cliques and bullying everywhere but at a deaf school/program you have more of a chance to have DEEP friendships, as opposed to superficial ones.

 

[deafdyke]

I never knew about ASL growing up and if I did my dad would never had allowed me to use it. It would had been great if my parents knew I was born
HOH instead of finding out when I was 8 yo and had failed first grade for the second time b/c I could not hear the teacher. I can't believe no one told my parents to send me the school for deaf and hoh in Boston which was about 30 minute ride from where we lived. I would love to had a chance to get the same education in grade school as any hearing kid did .

Massachusetts is HORRIBLE with informing parents of dhh kids of what is available specialized education wise. It still pisses me off that nobody suggested to my parents that maybe READS or Clarke could have been SO much better then the local school where the IEP team told my parents I wasn't really deaf?!?!?!

 

[Jezie]

Yes, there's cliques and bullying everywhere but at a deaf school/program you have more of a chance to have DEEP friendships, as opposed to superficial ones.

I can understand that I am assuming that (meaningful friendships) stems from common background and sharing a language and culture?

 

[deafdyke]

That's right, no guarantee.

Parents usually do hope for the best for their child(ren), which they should. However, in so many cases of deaf placement, there are a lot of failures.

(You should read up on the arguments on this board from several years earlier. There was such a big war for a long time. We, as d/Deaf posters, tried to offer experience, having "been there and done that," but we were met with parents who "knew better than the d/Deaf". :smh: )

As for myself, I was mainstreamed and hated every bit of it. I was the social freak growing up. I turned out okay later I so wanted to go to the deaf school, my parents would have none of it.

And most of those parents were either narcisstic (ie had to portray their kid's experiance as the Absolute Best Outcome.....Someone even felt so threatened when it was even slightly HINTED that their kid's experiance wasn't as good as they implied, that they threatened members on this board) or parents of younger kids... I think too that a lot of it may have been the parents thought that we Deaf adults were the type who were raised orally with only about 30% access to speech with a body worn HA.

 

[Swedeafa]

Can I ask a question, just to better understand? What is deaf schools like? I understand that yes, as a deaf student you would be among others with same language and the like. But wouldn't the experience be the same, as far as kids, in general, are mean to others. People form groups, people will get picked on, you have your out groups and in groups, ect... But I realize all this is assumptions. So what are deaf schools like?

I have never been to deaf school, since I became HOH as adult. However, to me the difference is obvious. I manage fine with hearing aids BUT I usually have no idea what my colleagues are talking about at lunch or coffe break. How could I socialize then? I don't know who has sick kids at home or I might hear that someone is going on vacation to Australia, but I have no clue why or for how long. My colleagues are nice, but they cannot possibly start writing everything they say in a note pad just so that I can follow the conversation. They have no idea how much I am missing. Information that is important for work is easier. Then I can ask for information to be sent through email, check meeting notes, or ask for many repeats when needed. Social conversation are not like that. They are fast, sometimes hushed, and it is hard to ask for repeats if someone is not talking directly to me.

The same thing is true in school. In a mainstream school it is impossible for a deaf student to know what the classmates are talking about unless they write it down or an interpreter translates. If the student is just HOH they will hear a word here and there in the conversation but they will not hear enough to participate. In a hearing environment I am usually busy trying to follow the conversation, so people assume I have nothing to say, that I am not interested in the topic or that I am shy. It is not possible to make friends under those circumstances.

At a deaf school, the student would actually understand teachers and friends conversations. Furthermore, if the student asks for repeats no one thinks it odd distracting.

But, cannot the hearing class mates be educated to help? Sure, but that only means they might be a little nicer, repeat a few more times, write things down, maybe invite the student to parties. That does make the student able to follow conversations! What use is it to be invited to a birthday party, if you still have no idea what your friends are talking about at the party because music in the background is drowning the sound? You are not really able to participate. At a deaf school, your friends would simply use sign language and you would be included.

The problem is that hearing don't realize how much of conversations are missed. Deaf persons often become excellent at compensating and using technology for support. But once again, this does not help the mainstreamed student who does not know what the classmates are saying when they discuss their Christmas presents. Hence, they have less possibility to add their own comments.

Does this help to describe the problem?

 

[Jezie]

I have never been to deaf school, since I became HOH as adult. However, to me the difference is obvious. I manage fine with hearing aids BUT I usually have no idea what my colleagues are talking about at lunch or coffe break. How could I socialize then? I don't know who has sick kids at home or I might hear that someone is going on vacation to Australia, but I have no clue why or for how long. My colleagues are nice, but they cannot possibly start writing everything they say in a note pad just so that I can follow the conversation. They have no idea how much I am missing. Information that is important for work is easier. Then I can ask for information to be sent through email, check meeting notes, or ask for many repeats when needed. Social conversation are not like that. They are fast, sometimes hushed, and it is hard to ask for repeats if someone is not talking directly to me.

The same thing is true in school. In a mainstream school it is impossible for a deaf student to know what the classmates are talking about unless they write it down or an interpreter translates. If the student is just HOH they will hear a word here and there in the conversation but they will not hear enough to participate. In a hearing environment I am usually busy trying to follow the conversation, so people assume I have nothing to say, that I am not interested in the topic or that I am shy. It is not possible to make friends under those circumstances.

At a deaf school, the student would actually understand teachers and friends conversations. Furthermore, if the student asks for repeats no one thinks it odd distracting.

But, cannot the hearing class mates be educated to help? Sure, but that only means they might be a little nicer, repeat a few more times, write things down, maybe invite the student to parties. That does make the student able to follow conversations! What use is it to be invited to a birthday party, if you still have no idea what your friends are talking about at the party because music in the background is drowning the sound? You are not really able to participate. At a deaf school, your friends would simply use sign language and you would be included.

The problem is that hearing don't realize how much of conversations are missed. Deaf persons often become excellent at compensating and using technology for support. But once again, this does not help the mainstreamed student who does not know what the classmates are saying when they discuss their Christmas presents. Hence, they have less possibility to add their own comments.

Does this help to describe the problem?

It does and it doesn't... I am already aware of the problem...just curious of what the schools are actually like is all... No worries through some of these post I have my answer.