What Religion are You

[web730]

MorriganTait,

Oh, are you a Mormon? I really hope not.

 

[MorriganTait]

MorriganTait, Oh, are you a Mormon? I really hope not.

Nope - I am a member of the United Church of Christ. I don;t particularly care for the Mormon church - as I have repeated several times. I just think it's ludicrous to keep saying they aren't Christian. There are a heck of a lot of Christian churches I don;t like - some which preach things that seem to fly in the face of Jesus' message, but I don;t go around telling them they aren't Christian.

LDS is a Christian denomination and grew from many of the self-same origins as many modern protestant denominations. It's just a plain fact. But then again, I have been wasting my time with someone who claims Baptists aren't protestants either.

 

[web730]

Nope - I am a member of the United Church of Christ. I don;t particularly care for the Mormon church - as I have repeated several times. I just think it's ludicrous to keep saying they aren't Christian. There are a heck of a lot of Christian churches I don;t like - some which preach things that seem to fly in the face of Jesus' message, but I don;t go around telling them they aren't Christian.

LDS is a Christian denomination and grew from many of the self-same origins as many modern protestant denominations. It's just a plain fact. But then again, I have been wasting my time with someone who claims Baptists aren't protestants either.

That's good as long you're not a mormon is all. I'm not against these mormons (individuals) but their religion.

I didn't read these looong threads that you and Reba debated over. By the way Baptists are NOT protestants in fact as a hard steel. I'm an independent Baptist believer so I do know the difference between them.

 

[jazzy]

That's good as long you're not a mormon is all. I'm not against these mormons (individuals) but their religion.

I didn't read these looong threads that you and Reba debated over. By the way Baptists are NOT protestants in fact as a hard steel. I'm an independent Baptist believer so I do know the difference between them.

This is not what I am taught in philopshy of religion, all christians come from protestant (incluced mormon and independent baptist) except for Catholic and Greek Orthodox. I view u as a protestant Christian.

 

[MorriganTait]

This is not what I am taught in philopshy of religion, all christians come from protestant (incluced mormon and independent baptist) except for Catholic and Greek Orthodox. I view u as a protestant Christian.

Thank you. I am glad not to be the only one who has studied religion and knows the true origins of modern Christian sects.

 

[Reba]

This is not what I am taught in philopshy of religion, all christians come from protestant (incluced mormon and independent baptist) except for Catholic and Greek Orthodox. I view u as a protestant Christian.

Who taught you that?

 

[MorriganTait]

http://religion-cults.com/Christianity/Protestant/P-Denominations-1.htm#BAPTISTS

BAPTISTS:

Comprise the largest of all American Protestant denominations, with 37 million members, in 30 bodies; the largest body is the Southern Baptist Convention, with 15 million: 901 Commerce St., Nashville, Tenn. 37203. Worldwide: 45 million.

- Founded by John Smith in 1605 in England. In America, Roger Williams founded the first Baptist church in Providence in 1639 (see Anabaptists).

- Martin Luther King, Jr. was a Baptist, as well as Billy Graham and Jessy Jackson...

- They are called "Baptists" because of their doctrine concerning "Baptism": Called an "ordinance", they reject "infant baptism", consider only baptism by immersion as valid, to persons who can decide to receive it, and can feel the personal experience of being "born again".

- The rejection of "infant baptism" is against the teachings of the Bible: Jesus ordered "to make disciples of all nations, baptizing them", never excluding the children (Matt.28:19). In the houses of Lydia and of the prisoner the whole families were baptized, including children (Act.16:15,33)...

- "Separation of church and state",

is an important feature of the Baptists; they are strong supporters of it.

- Baptists do not have a formal creed, but subscribe to two professions of faith formulated in 1689 and 1832, and they are in general agreement with classical Protestantism theology regarding Scripture as the sole rule of faith, original sin, justification through faith in Christ, and the nature of the Church.

- They believe that no authority can stand between the believer and God.... that's good!.

- The "Lord's Supper",

called an "ordinance", is celebrated at various times... it is not for them the "our daily bread" of Matt.6:11... and it does not have the importance that Jesus and Paul gave to the Eucharist: "unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you"... "all who eat and drink without discerning the body, eat and drink his own condemnation. And for this reason many of you (Christians) are week and ill, and some have died" (Jn.6:53, 1Cor.11:29-30).

- Organization:

The organization is congregational; each local church is autonomous.

- Worship":

Services differ in form from one congregation to another, depending on their local tradition. Usual elements are the reading of the scripture, a sermon, hymns, and prayers.

... It is a pity Baptists don't have the daily Eucharist, "our daily bread"! (Jn.6:51, Matt.6:11).

 

[MorriganTait]

http://www.biblicalstudies.com/bstudy/ecclesiology/baptism.htm


SUMMARY & CONCLUSION

It has been shown that Baptists in America and Britain find their origins in Protestant Puritanism, and their connection with the Anabaptists is only imaginary. Similarities there are, but the vast differences must be honestly admitted as well. Historical ties to the Anabaptists were continually disavowed by early Baptists, while at the same time they all claimed the closest of ties with the Protestant Reformation. Anabaptist, on the other hand, for the most part, came from Roman Catholic stock. It has also been shown that while few similarities exist between today's Baptists and some ancient religious sects, none of them were actually what today's Baptists are. They too came from out the established church of Rome, and were generally sacramentalists and sometimes even pagan.

Let it be reemphasized, as was stated at the outset, that this is no threat to Baptists. While Baptists have no clear, uncluttered genealogy of historical identity, it is no insult but rather a testimony to their strict belief that the Scripture alone is our basis of faith. While Baptists have historical roots which grow back to the Reformation, their only concern need be whether their theological roots grow out of the pages of the New Testament. Baptists do not need (nor does anyone else) a continual, unbroken line back to the apostles, only agreement with them. This is the question of ultimate importance, and if Baptists really believe that, a constructing of history in their favor is not at all necessary. Let them look to their history honestly, gleaning what they can from their predecessors with some differing views and fearing only any deviation from their sole authoritative Statement of Faith, Holy Scripture.

 

[MorriganTait]

http://www.envoymagazine.com/backissues/2.4/coverstory.html

"Ancient Baptists" and Other Myths
By Fr. Hugh Barbour, O.Praem.

 

[MorriganTait]

http://www.baptisthistory.org/contissues/brackney.htm


Baptist Contributions to Protestantism
View other articles in this series


Baptist Contributions to Protestantism
William H. Brackney


To some people, saying Baptists are Protestants sounds strange, because they think Baptists are a category of Christians unto themselves. On the contrary, for many Baptists it is important to be seen as part of the Protestant family and Baptists have certainly made important contributions to the overall meaning of Protestantism.

Protestants are the Christians who emerged in Europe in the sixteenth century to emphasize the authority of Scripture, the priesthood of believers, and salvation by grace. Major categories of Protestants include Lutherans, Reformed (Zwinglian and Calvinistic), Anabaptists, and the Church of England. Major heroic figures emerged in the Protestant groups, including Martin Luther, Huldrych Zwingli, John Calvin, Balthasar Hubmaier, Conrad Grebel, Menno Simons, and Thomas Cranmer.

One of the major marks of Protestantism has been confessional development. As each of the Reformers reacted against the Medieval Catholic tradition in one way or another, they sought to define their beliefs in terms of “confessions” or statements of their beliefs. At meetings like the Colloquy of Marburg (1529) and the Diet of Speyer (1529), the confessions were presented in support of basic beliefs of the new groups. These confessions later gave shape to “denominations” as we know them today.

 

[MorriganTait]

http://www.abc.net.au/religion/stories/s817757.htm

Key Movements
The Protestant movement is made up of a number of separate churches.

Lutheran

Reformed/ Presbyterian

Anglican / Episcopal

Free Churches: Baptists; Methodists; Quakers; Salvation Army; Pentecostal churches, charismatic movements; African Independent Churches.

The Uniting Church in Australia (a merging of Presbyterian, Methodist and Congregational churches in 1977)

 

[jazzy]

Who taught you that?

I took this course at college.

 

[hottiedeafboi]

I'm a born again believer (christian) and go to southern baptist. Well, yes my both daughters were baptized after their knowledge of who christ jesus and askedd christ in their lives thru bible stories every night at bedtime. But I agree babies shouldn't , bec babies has no knowledge, but as parent is responsible to train ur child. I rather have relationship with christ than being religion. Yes, being religion is good as long christ lives in you. I believe eternal security. Bec, Holy Spirit is sealed in me till the day ofHis calling me Home.. Glad u shown about the history of the baptist. Well some are saying the word protestant is the meaning we left the catholic teaching, martin luther (not matin luther king), who founded as lutherans, which is protestants begin. But as all the church names, all are in body of christ. Understand both Jehovah witness and Mormons are not. But not discuss about the reasoning, bec to long. But the point is, the key answer is we must have Christ in us. Obey Him in baptism and Lords supper. Baptism and Lords supper is not the way of salvation. Only Christ in you. I agree the church I went, saying no matter which church u go, important, if u have christ as ur personal savior in ur life are welcome to join the Lord supper or communion. But sadly many churches doesn't, if u r not catholic, if u are not methoidst, if u are not...... Can't join the communion or Lords supper. Christ in you is important part than anything else and also the moment Christ in you, u have the holy spirit, Holy Spirit and Chirst can't do it apart. With Christ u have the Holy Spirit, without Christ, no spirit in u. He's an open arms who comes to Him no matter who u are or what u done. Isn't He a great Father who loves us so by giving us His Son Jesus? Smile

 

[jazzy]

I'm a born again believer (christian) and go to southern baptist. Well, yes my both daughters were baptized after their knowledge of who christ jesus and askedd christ in their lives thru bible stories every night at bedtime. But I agree babies shouldn't , bec babies has no knowledge, but as parent is responsible to train ur child. I rather have relationship with christ than being religion. Yes, being religion is good as long christ lives in you. I believe eternal security. Bec, Holy Spirit is sealed in me till the day ofHis calling me Home.. Glad u shown about the history of the baptist. Well some are saying the word protestant is the meaning we left the catholic teaching, martin luther (not matin luther king), who founded as lutherans, which is protestants begin. But as all the church names, all are in body of christ. Understand both Jehovah witness and Mormons are not. But not discuss about the reasoning, bec to long. But the point is, the key answer is we must have Christ in us. Obey Him in baptism and Lords supper. Baptism and Lords supper is not the way of salvation. Only Christ in you. I agree the church I went, saying no matter which church u go, important, if u have christ as ur personal savior in ur life are welcome to join the Lord supper or communion. But sadly many churches doesn't, if u r not catholic, if u are not methoidst, if u are not...... Can't join the communion or Lords supper. Christ in you is important part than anything else and also the moment Christ in you, u have the holy spirit, Holy Spirit and Chirst can't do it apart. With Christ u have the Holy Spirit, without Christ, no spirit in u. He's an open arms who comes to Him no matter who u are or what u done. Isn't He a great Father who loves us so by giving us His Son Jesus? Smile

Well said except for one I have trouble here, for example a murderer get to be saved by Christ thru accept Him as his personal savior during his time in prison while his victims who never got a chance to be saved will be burned in hell forever. When people asked me "Are you saved?" I dislike them asking me because I already know in my heart I do not need to be saved but already saved long time ago.

 

[web730]

I took this course at college.

Therefore your college course was fraud.

 

[MorriganTait]

Therefore your college course was fraud.

Web730, I have posted numerous academic references that explain the two points I have made and Jazzy has supported.

1. That LDS is a Christian denomination (albeit, one which follows additional doctrine not followed by other Christians - but then again, most denominations have some doctrine that has not been adopted by other denominations.)
2. That the originis of modern Baptist denominations are firmly rooted in Protestantism, and that some Baptist origins can be traced directly to specific people who were instrumental in the Protestant Reformation. Why some Baptists have tried to claim differently, I do not understand, but there does not seem to be independent, verifiable corroboration of their claims. Additionally, even major Baptist historians have called these claims false. (Please see several of my other posts for specific references.)

If you would be so kind as to research and post similar, independent, academic references to support your claims, I'd be happy to see them.

 

[Reba]

http://religion-cults.com/Christianity/Protestant/P-Denominations-1.htm#BAPTISTS

Interesting; a Catholic author's opinion of Baptists; totally unbiased I'm sure.

- The rejection of "infant baptism" is against the teachings of the Bible: Jesus ordered "to make disciples of all nations, baptizing them", never excluding the children (Matt.28:19). In the houses of Lydia and of the prisoner the whole families were baptized, including children (Act.16:15,33)...

There is no teaching of infant baptism in the Bible.

"Children" are not infants.

Matthew 28:19
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost"

Jesus told the disciples how to baptise believers: "in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost," after teaching them. You can't teach the Gospel to infants. Young children, yes, but not newborn infants.

- The "Lord's Supper",
called an "ordinance", is celebrated at various times... it is not for them the "our daily bread" of Matt.6:11...

Matthew 6:11
Give us this day our daily bread.

We are dependent on God for our daily sustainence of life--the air we breath, the food we eat, and the water we drink. Jesus gave us the example of prayer that we should follow. We should pray daily for our very food of that day--"our daily bread." That verse has nothing to do with the Lord's Supper.

Matthew doesn't mention the bread of the Lord's Supper until chapter 26, verse 26
"And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body."

The Bible does not teach daily partaking of the Lord's Supper.

... "all who eat and drink without discerning the body, eat and drink his own condemnation. And for this reason many of you (Christians) are week and ill, and some have died" (Jn.6:53, 1Cor.11:29-30).

The full context:

John 6
52 The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat? 53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. 54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. 56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him. 57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me. 58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever. 59 These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum.

60 Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it? 61 When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you? 62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before? 63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

I Corinthians 11:
27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. 28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. 29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. 30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

Those believers who partake of the bread and cup without first self examining their spiritual condition are those who became "weak and sickly" or even died.

... It is a pity Baptists don't have the daily Eucharist, "our daily bread"! (Jn.6:51, Matt.6:11).

Hmmm, that sounds more like editorial comment than objective reporting.

Nevertheless, "our daily bread" does not refer to the Lord's Supper (Communion). (see above)

As far as I know, individual Catholics don't take daily Eucharist either. Is that a pity, too?

 

[Reba]

http://www.biblicalstudies.com/bstudy/ecclesiology/baptism.htm

Of course, this is the viewpoint of a Calvinist preacher.

 

[Reba]

http://www.envoymagazine.com/backissues/2.4/coverstory.html

"Ancient Baptists" and Other Myths
By Fr. Hugh Barbour, O.Praem.

Source:

"Envoy Magazine is the award winning online and print journal of Catholic apologetics and evangelization, edited by Catholic author, seminar presenter, and television host Patrick Madrid."

 

[Reba]

... Christ in you is important part than anything else and also the moment Christ in you, u have the holy spirit, Holy Spirit and Chirst can't do it apart. With Christ u have the Holy Spirit, without Christ, no spirit in u. He's an open arms who comes to Him no matter who u are or what u done. Isn't He a great Father who loves us so by giving us His Son Jesus? Smile