What is your opinion on teaching ASL to primates/apes?

kmj27

kmj27

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Hello,
I am writing a research paper for my ASL class about the use of ASL with primates/apes. I was just wondering anyone's opinions on the subject- is it a controversial or "touchy" subject? Do you think that it is offensive at all? Thank you for all your help!
 
The book [I The Other Side of Silence[/I] by Arden Nesser has a section regarding the Washoe studies. It breaks the project down quite nicely, and gives some very valid criticisms of the study. I'd suggest youget a copy of the book, and read that chapter. It will really open your eyes as to the myth of teaching primates communication.
 
I have heard of monkeys chimps and gorilla can learn to use signs. It was great. Best stories I have read are true about a gorilla name "koko" that was taught by a woman name Dr. Penny Patterson. There are books about "koko" and it a good one. She also have a web site you can check it out under Koko.org / The Gorilla Foundation ,, I think you like this one.
 
thank you...

Thank you jillio, I will check that book out. Do you have any personal opinions on the topic though? Do you think it could benefit society or do you think it is demeaning to those who use ASL?
 
kmj27 said:
Thank you jillio, I will check that book out. Do you have any personal opinions on the topic though? Do you think it could benefit society or do you think it is demeaning to those who use ASL?
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There have been some problems with the studies, in particular the Washoe study. I don't particularly see it as demeaning, but rather an innaccurate portrayal of language in general. Simply because a primate can make a reasonable imitation of a sign does not indicate that they are using that language spontaneously. It really clouds the issues of language acquisition for deaf children. Unfortunately, studies such as these receive a lot of press, and give the hearing community some very mistaken impressions.

And, you're welcome!
 
Doesn't it seem, that after 30 years of "Washoe", that it was a waste of research money and that future grants be denied?
 
Tousi said:
Doesn't it seem, that after 30 years of "Washoe", that it was a waste of research money and that future grants be denied?
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I can certainly see how those research dollars could have been put to better use. Perhaps directly funneled into deaf ed research. Or linguistic psychology.
 
jillio said:
I can certainly see how those research dollars could have been put to better use. Perhaps directly funneled into deaf ed research. Or linguistic psychology.
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Lol, yeah, don't you think that they thought the Washoe money was for studying the deaf? :giggle: Bugs me to no end being under a microscope......kinda like the college kids coming here and asking us to do a paper for them. No offense, tho.
 
using that language spontaneously
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what does that mean exactly. im not familiar with Washoe, but i heard a bit and seen a documentary on Koko, the gorilla counterpart to washoe.

and from what i could tell, they WERE not only communicating with the trainers when they wanted stuff, but Koko was able to express her saddness to her trainer.

i read a wiki article on the clever hans effect, which is attributed to the failure of the washoe study, and i dunno.....this wasn't a horse stomping his foot, this was a gesture used to express a desire, and in koko's case, feelings.

so im genuinely curious where the controversy comes from...or is this simply a human pride situation?


how teaching language to primates has ANYTHING to do with deaf children is beyond me...so im not referring to that scope of the discussion. Primates are incapable of making the vocal sounds nessecary for speech, so a gestural language is the natural choice.
 
Tousi said:
Lol, yeah, don't you think that they thought the Washoe money was for studying the deaf? :giggle: Bugs me to no end being under a microscope......kinda like the college kids coming here and asking us to do a paper for them. No offense, tho.
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I understand how it could feel that way but please believe me when I say that I don't mean it like that. I am not asking anyone to write my paper for me, I am just asking for Deaf people's opinions so I can accurately portray how people in the Deaf community feel about the issue- rather than just guessing and being completely wrong. I was just wanting to get some firsthand thoughts on the subject so I am not misrepresenting anyone's opinion. Sorry though; I didn't realize that it was annoying to some people to ask questions about subjects in their culture.
 
Ariakkas said:
what does that mean exactly. im not familiar with Washoe, but i heard a bit and seen a documentary on Koko, the gorilla counterpart to washoe.

and from what i could tell, they WERE not only communicating with the trainers when they wanted stuff, but Koko was able to express her saddness to her trainer.

i read a wiki article on the clever hans effect, which is attributed to the failure of the washoe study, and i dunno.....this wasn't a horse stomping his foot, this was a gesture used to express a desire, and in koko's case, feelings.

so im genuinely curious where the controversy comes from...or is this simply a human pride situation?


how teaching language to primates has ANYTHING to do with deaf children is beyond me...so im not referring to that scope of the discussion. Primates are incapable of making the vocal sounds nessecary for speech, so a gestural language is the natural choice.
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What it has to do with deaf children is not a direct connection to the research, but the fact that the research was supposedly done to facillitate understanding of the language acquisition process, presumably with the effect of bein applied to understanding of the process in humans.

The clever hans effect was only one of the difficulties with the Washoe study. The researchers were not fluent in ASL, and possessed a very limited understanding of the language. Likewise, anything that even approximated a sign was counted as an attempt at communication, thus invalidating much of the data. It was a very sloppy data collection, and that, in and of itself, invalidates the conclusions reached through the study.
 
Ariakkas said:
what does that mean exactly. im not familiar with Washoe, but i heard a bit and seen a documentary on Koko, the gorilla counterpart to washoe.

and from what i could tell, they WERE not only communicating with the trainers when they wanted stuff, but Koko was able to express her saddness to her trainer.

i read a wiki article on the clever hans effect, which is attributed to the failure of the washoe study, and i dunno.....this wasn't a horse stomping his foot, this was a gesture used to express a desire, and in koko's case, feelings.

so im genuinely curious where the controversy comes from...or is this simply a human pride situation?


how teaching language to primates has ANYTHING to do with deaf children is beyond me...so im not referring to that scope of the discussion. Primates are incapable of making the vocal sounds nessecary for speech, so a gestural language is the natural choice.
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Just my opinion, but I don't thinkTousi was referring specifically to you. And it is good that you are attempting to gain insight into the deaf perpective when writing about the issues that affect them.:cool:
 
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