What is the alexander graham bell company?

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Etoile said:
I made your post back the way it was when you first wrote it. I'm not sure what made you decide to change it, but since you didn't change the ending, it makes more sense with what you originally wrote. Fortunately I'm e-mail subscribed to this thread, so I saw the original before you changed it.

You know nothing about me. Older and hopefully wiser? Tell me how old I am. Go ahead, tell me.

As for an agenda - how did you get that from what I said? I was advocating parents being well informed when they choose to implant their children. You're telling me they are well informed. Okay, fine, perhaps all the articles I've read are old, I can handle that. So where is the agenda?

And another thing: why are you so vehemently defensive? Why do you feel the need to personally attack someone (first paragraph; last two sentences) who you perceive as disagreeing with your views?
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Thanks for showing us the original post, Etoile. Just more unfounded accusations and name calling rather than intelligent well thought out and supported evidence,
 
Etoile said:
AGBAD is a joke because that's the real acronym. Like I said earlier, people appropriate it for their own use.

Making up N(B)AD is just silly. It doesn't mean anything, it isn't a real organization, it's pointless.
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Hey...N(B)AD serves for the National Bad Ass Deafies!! LOL!
 
shel90 said:
I was AGBell's perfect poster child cuz I was born with a severe bilateral profound deafness and have little access to to the speech banana with my hearing aids. Despite that, I was able to develop excellent oral skills making it possible for most hearing people to understand me. I also learned how to lipread very well but that skill worked the best in one-on-one situations or very small groups of nor more than 3 people. What they forgot was that no matter how good of a lipreader I was and how well I was trained to hear, I had little access to language, communication and information most of the time. I was put in a mainstreamed public school with such minimal accodomations cuz their philosophy was to make me "independent" or so what they believed. What happened was I ended up very angry, isolated, lonely, frustrated, afraid, confused, and eventually depressed during most of my childhood.

When I discovered ASL and the Deaf community and how easy it was for me to connect with others and how the world finally opened up to me, all I could think was "Why?" "Why did AGBell and the medical professionals put me in such an extremely restrictive environment like that?" Was it to make me more like "hearing" and just completely ignore my deaf needs?

Since that discovery and how improved my literacy skills became after learning ASL, I have been very against this philosophy of strictly oral-only with no exposure to sign language. No thanks for me...ASL made my life so much more richer than it used to be.
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Shel, may I quote you in my research paper about mainstream schools? I think that you are telling the story of so many mainstreamed children. I do not understand the whole controversy, or the quality of education that public schools provide, but so far what I have found is that learning ASL first is the best way to teach speech and speech reading. I don't see how any child could feel included in a public school if they did not have really good oral skills already. I think they would be very lonely there, and that should matter most. I am hoping to undrstand the whole thing one day. Thank you for sharing your experience.
 
dreamchaser said:
Shel, may I quote you in my research paper about mainstream schools? I think that you are telling the story of so many mainstreamed children. I do not understand the whole controversy, or the quality of education that public schools provide, but so far what I have found is that learning ASL first is the best way to teach speech and speech reading. I don't see how any child could feel included in a public school if they did not have really good oral skills already. I think they would be very lonely there, and that should matter most. I am hoping to undrstand the whole thing one day. Thank you for sharing your experience.
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Sure! Quote me all u want cuz we need more stories like mine and others to educate the public about.

Even having good oral skills, which I did, I did not have equal access to language, communication and information as my hearing peers did. For that, I feel my rights to a full and appropriate education under the Public Education law were denied. If I knew back then what I know now, I would have sued my public school for what they did.
 
dreamchaser said:
Shel, may I quote you in my research paper about mainstream schools? I think that you are telling the story of so many mainstreamed children. I do not understand the whole controversy, or the quality of education that public schools provide, but so far what I have found is that learning ASL first is the best way to teach speech and speech reading. I don't see how any child could feel included in a public school if they did not have really good oral skills already. I think they would be very lonely there, and that should matter most. I am hoping to undrstand the whole thing one day. Thank you for sharing your experience.
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Even those with good oral skills feel the isolation and lonliness described by shel. Oral skills do not make one "not deaf". Nor do they always facillitate true interaction with peers and teachers.
 
Etoile - I do not feel that you are portraying parents accurately when you choose to use the word "rarely".

It is the responsibilty, imo, of the Deaf community to ensure that their views/opinions/experiences are made available to hearing families with children newly diagnosed with hearing loss.

Ricks comments are no more blunt than other people on this board. Bluntess has always been something that was admired within the Deaf community, in my experience.
 
loml said:
Etoile - I do not feel that you are portraying parents accurately when you choose to use the word "rarely".

It is the responsibilty, imo, of the Deaf community to ensure that their views/opinions/experiences are made available to hearing families with children newly diagnosed with hearing loss.

Ricks comments are no more blunt than other people on this board. Bluntess has always been something that was admired within the Deaf community, in my experience.
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What experience might that be?
 
loml said:
Etoile - I do not feel that you are portraying parents accurately when you choose to use the word "rarely".

It is the responsibilty, imo, of the Deaf community to ensure that their views/opinions/experiences are made available to hearing families with children newly diagnosed with hearing loss.

Ricks comments are no more blunt than other people on this board. Bluntess has always been something that was admired within the Deaf community, in my experience.
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I was wondering if this was going to come down to word choice. You're probably right that I could have phrased it better. I could have used more weasel words - "some", "many", "sometimes", etc. But I wasn't thinking carefully about my words at the time; c'est la vie, what's said is said.

I am curious, how should Deaf people find these hearing families? Should NAD take out an ad in the New York Times? Should deaf people hand out leaflets in maternity wards?

I'm rather surprised that you call Rick's comments "blunt" - they were nothing of the kind. Bluntness implies that he's right, that I don't like the truth he's exposing. In this case, that's completely inaccurate - he's using ad hominem attacks and saying things that he doesn't know the truth about. Accusing me of being "intellectually incapable" because I am a "college freshman" and need to be "older and wiser" before I understand is ridiculous. He's coming from a position of "you're just a kid, what do you know" - and that entire approach is wrong in this case. I'd still like for him to tell me how old I am, though.
 
Etoile said:
I was wondering if this was going to come down to word choice. You're probably right that I could have phrased it better. I could have used more weasel words - "some", "many", "sometimes", etc. But I wasn't thinking carefully about my words at the time; c'est la vie, what's said is said.

I am curious, how should Deaf people find these hearing families? Should NAD take out an ad in the New York Times? Should deaf people hand out leaflets in maternity wards?

I'm rather surprised that you call Rick's comments "blunt" - they were nothing of the kind. Bluntness implies that he's right, that I don't like the truth he's exposing. In this case, that's completely inaccurate - he's using ad hominem attacks and saying things that he doesn't know the truth about. Accusing me of being "intellectually incapable" because I am a "college freshman" and need to be "older and wiser" before I understand is ridiculous. He's coming from a position of "you're just a kid, what do you know" - and that entire approach is wrong in this case. I'd still like for him to tell me how old I am, though.
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Some confuse bluntness with rudeness.
 
loml said:
Etoile - I do not feel that you are portraying parents accurately when you choose to use the word "rarely".

It is the responsibilty, imo, of the Deaf community to ensure that their views/opinions/experiences are made available to hearing families with children newly diagnosed with hearing loss.

Ricks comments are no more blunt than other people on this board. Bluntess has always been something that was admired within the Deaf community, in my experience.
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Bluntness is admired but not when it is a personal attack on others without justification.

Lolm, 2 years ago, when I first came to AD and shared my experiences both personally and professionally, I was attacked over and over again called all kinds of names. How is it my responsibility to continue to share my experiences and opinions only to be treated like a 2nd class citizen? Do u think people in the Deaf community want to subject themselves to more oppression after enduring years and years of oppression growing up? I think it gets pretty depressing after a while.
 
Etoile said:
I was wondering if this was going to come down to word choice. You're probably right that I could have phrased it better. I could have used more weasel words - "some", "many", "sometimes", etc. But I wasn't thinking carefully about my words at the time; c'est la vie, what's said is said.

I am curious, how should Deaf people find these hearing families? Should NAD take out an ad in the New York Times? Should deaf people hand out leaflets in maternity wards?

I'm rather surprised that you call Rick's comments "blunt" - they were nothing of the kind. Bluntness implies that he's right, that I don't like the truth he's exposing. In this case, that's completely inaccurate - he's using ad hominem attacks and saying things that he doesn't know the truth about. Accusing me of being "intellectually incapable" because I am a "college freshman" and need to be "older and wiser" before I understand is ridiculous. He's coming from a position of "you're just a kid, what do you know" - and that entire approach is wrong in this case. I'd still like for him to tell me how old I am, though.
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That has already been discussed so many times. How is it that the Deaf community is responsible for getting info on EVERY baby born in EVERY hospital who has failed his/her hearing screening and breaking all kinds of confidentiality laws to get access to the parents' personal info just to contact them? I guess I can just give up my job so I can drive all over the state to each hospital to hand out leaflets. It is just too bad that I dont come from a family with money cuz I certainly cant afford the gas!
 
shel90 said:
I was AGBell's perfect poster child cuz I was born with a severe bilateral profound deafness and have little access to to the speech banana with my hearing aids. Despite that, I was able to develop excellent oral skills making it possible for most hearing people to understand me. I also learned how to lipread very well but that skill worked the best in one-on-one situations or very small groups of nor more than 3 people. What they forgot was that no matter how good of a lipreader I was and how well I was trained to hear, I had little access to language, communication and information most of the time. I was put in a mainstreamed public school with such minimal accodomations cuz their philosophy was to make me "independent" or so what they believed. What happened was I ended up very angry, isolated, lonely, frustrated, afraid, confused, and eventually depressed during most of my childhood.

When I discovered ASL and the Deaf community and how easy it was for me to connect with others and how the world finally opened up to me, all I could think was "Why?" "Why did AGBell and the medical professionals put me in such an extremely restrictive environment like that?" Was it to make me more like "hearing" and just completely ignore my deaf needs? do you think accomodations are getting any better in mainstream schools?

Since that discovery and how improved my literacy skills became after learning ASL, I have been very against this philosophy of strictly oral-only with no exposure to sign language. No thanks for me...ASL made my life so much more richer than it used to be.
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Shel, please forgive me if this is presumptuous, but I would like to quote you for my essay on mainstream/oral schools for my class. You seem to put it in a nutshell, and I fear that many Deaf children are feeling just as frustrated and isolated as you did? If you don't want me to, then I can totally understand.
 
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Etoile -

I do not agree with you that bluntness denotes being "right".

He is speaking from personal experience, not your view or my view of his experience.

Frankly Etoile, until one actually has a child, one does not "know" what the experience is, how completely life changing being a parent is and then how you agonize over what is best for your child.
 
shel90 said:
That has already been discussed so many times. How is it that the Deaf community is responsible for getting info on EVERY baby born in EVERY hospital who has failed his/her hearing screening and breaking all kinds of confidentiality laws to get access to the parents' personal info just to contact them? I guess I can just give up my job so I can drive all over the state to each hospital to hand out leaflets. It is just too bad that I dont come from a family with money cuz I certainly cant afford the gas!
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Yes, it has been discussed. To date, the oralists who place the responsibility on the Deaf Community have yet tocome up with a solution for the breach of confidentiality problem. They simply place the responsibility on the Deaf Community. Just like they continue to place the responsibility for overcoming societal barriers on the deaf rather than on the hearing who create those barriers. The fact of the matter remains that it is the medical community that has first contact with deaf children and hearing parents through the diagnostic process. Therefore,the responsibility for providing information and sources regarding ALL OPTIONS lies with the first contact.
 
jillio said:
Yes, it has been discussed. To date, the oralists who place the responsibility on the Deaf Community have yet tocome up with a solution for the breach of confidentiality problem. They simply place the responsibility on the Deaf Community. Just like they continue to place the responsibility for overcoming societal barriers on the deaf rather than on the hearing who create those barriers. The fact of the matter remains that it is the medical community that has first contact with deaf children and hearing parents through the diagnostic process. Therefore,the responsibility for providing information and sources regarding ALL OPTIONS lies with the first contact.
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It is just a joke that the oralists want to shirk the responsibilities and blame the Deaf community for the numerous of deaf children who become socially and linguistically delayed. Geez!

If AGBell was alive, he would definitely put the blame on us instead of on himself for creating this ideology that harmed so many deaf people for decades.
 
shel90 said:
Sure! Quote me all u want cuz we need more stories like mine and others to educate the public about.

Even having good oral skills, which I did, I did not have equal access to language, communication and information as my hearing peers did. For that, I feel my rights to a full and appropriate education under the Public Education law were denied. If I knew back then what I know now, I would have sued my public school for what they did.
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Wow, I so thank you. That is exactly what my paper is about. The emotional aspects of mainstreaming Deaf children and keeping them away from the Deaf community. Forgive me, I am not judging everyone, because many parents are hearing and ignorant, following the advice of people who want them to purchase there audio devices, but,,, forcing oralism without sign should be outlawed in my opinion. If you can point me towards any data about the subject that would be too cool. I just want to help to educate my hearing co-students about the Deaf community and I myself have so much to learn. At least when they do peer reviews of my essays, they can get a little information. I truly don't want to misrepresent anything though, so appreciate all of your imput. See me smile...
 
shel90 said:
Bluntness is admired but not when it is a personal attack on others without justification.

shel90 - Then it is obvious, for me, from your definition, that rick felt justified. Having said that does not mean that you necessarily will agree with how he was feeling, but rick, you and I are all entitled to our feelings, just as Etoile is entitled to hers.

Lolm, 2 years ago, when I first came to AD and shared my experiences both personally and professionally, I was attacked over and over again called all kinds of names. How is it my responsibility to continue to share my experiences and opinions only to be treated like a 2nd class citizen? Do u think people in the Deaf community want to subject themselves to more oppression after enduring years and years of oppression growing up? I think it gets pretty depressing after a while.
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shel90 - I am sorry to hear that that is how you felt you were treated. The internet allows some people to have little regard for the fact that there is a human being on the other side of the screen name.

If you are passionate in what you believe shel90, then you must continue on sharing.
 
shel90 said:
It is just a joke that the oralists want to shirk the responsibilities and blame the Deaf community for the numerous of deaf children who become socially and linguistically delayed. Geez!

If AGBell was alive, he would definitely put the blame on us instead of on himself for creating this ideology that harmed so many deaf people for decades.
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**nodding** That manner of placing responsibility on the individual for that which has been created by society is inherent in the oralist philosophy.
 
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