what has standing up for gays cost you?

kipourgos said:
Oh give me a f____ing break. That is the weakest, most tired and dishonest agrument that homophobes come up with. Nobody who looks honestly at the issue could ever believe it. Do you think a straight kid looks at the kid getting the crap beat out of him for being gay and says "oh, he looks like he's having lots of fun, I think I'll go be like him?" That a kid who is attracted to the opposite sex just says "I think I'll forsake women and do it with guys?"

Are you completely unaware of the self-hatred that so many gay people go through? If they hate being gay (for whatever the reason), if their own gayness terrifies them, sometimes to the extent that they enter into marriages to try and hide it, suppress it, or make it go away, then what possible justification can you give for the claim that they "choose" it? The argument is too absurd for words.

You can choose "believe" that gay people choose to be gay as long as you want. I.e. you can choose to ignore the evidence from all sides in favor of what supports your blind faith. But it simply doesn't make it true. All the evidence is to the contrary, and has been for years. The only reason you make that statement is that unless you try and convince yourself of that, the responsiblity for your prejudice lands right in your own lap. And then you can no longer talk about Christian love while refusing to confront the fear and hate you harbor for people who have done you no harm. I know you like the palm of my hand, because I was you for years.

I was gay before I even knew what the word meant. I realized that I was attracted to the same sex, only much later did I realize what it meant. What did I choose, besides being honest with myself? I tried to "change" for 13 years to please "believers," including myself. It didn't work. It might have pleased you and your correligionists if I had married and put on the facade; you might have said "see, he was cured." But it would have been a lie. And people like you would scrambling to believe it, because nobody loves a lie like a person desperate to hide from the truth.
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Good post! I agree with you, I already debated often about the homosexual issues around here, it's like I was talking against the wall *sigh*
 
Although this post is two days old, I don't find it all odd that people are still arguing about homosexuality. I grew up in conservative Baptist southern Mississippi, and I had it very rough growing up. Luckily, things got a lot better once I moved to college and made true friends who don't care who I find love with. All they care about it me, as a person, and the friendship that we've formed. That's all that should matter.

However, I think I should contribute to the argument. I just want to contribute this website on Homosexuality in Humans and Nature. I haven't learned to quote things yet, so I'm sorry I can't do any of it in here.

And if you do read that website, you'll find that homosexuality is common in nature with animals too. So if it is so unnatural and God created all animals, so therefore all animals are perfect, and the only reason humans aren't is because God gave us free will.... why do animals do it? Just a though. But anyway, I respect that it makes some people uncomfortable, but to those who would go out of their way to tell me I'm going to hell or that I lead an unnatural life, I have this to say:

"Please... shut up. I don't care. I never have, I never will. I am happy with who I am. I have accepted it, and I'm sorry that you can't. It wasn't a choice, but because you're not open-minded enough to understand why, there's no point arguing. Do you think you, being the millionth person to tell me, is going to change how I am after so many years? No, you're not. You're wasting your breath. I respect your beliefs and understand that we will never be able to form a working friendship with me or anyone who is gay. And you're the one missing out, because I am the most trustworthy, supportive, caring person I know, and I would gladly go to any lengths to help the people I care about. Now, if you'll excuse me and forgive me for sounding rude, I will give you your space and let you soak in your moral, ethical, or theological superiority complex, whichever one you're condemning me for."

Now, I do truly apologizes if that offends some people. Perhaps you understand how a gay person may feel now when you come up to them, tell them their lives are worthless or that they're not as Holy as thou art. I respect a person until they do something disrespectful towards me or any of my friends, including deaf, hearing, gay, or straight.

(Wow. That did sound really rude. Sorry.)
 
justamsboy said:
Although this post is two days old, I don't find it all odd that people are still arguing about homosexuality. I grew up in conservative Baptist southern Mississippi, and I had it very rough growing up. Luckily, things got a lot better once I moved to college and made true friends who don't care who I find love with. All they care about it me, as a person, and the friendship that we've formed. That's all that should matter.

However, I think I should contribute to the argument. I just want to contribute this website on Homosexuality in Humans and Nature. I haven't learned to quote things yet, so I'm sorry I can't do any of it in here.

And if you do read that website, you'll find that homosexuality is common in nature with animals too. So if it is so unnatural and God created all animals, so therefore all animals are perfect, and the only reason humans aren't is because God gave us free will.... why do animals do it? Just a though. But anyway, I respect that it makes some people uncomfortable, but to those who would go out of their way to tell me I'm going to hell or that I lead an unnatural life, I have this to say:

"Please... shut up. I don't care. I never have, I never will. I am happy with who I am. I have accepted it, and I'm sorry that you can't. It wasn't a choice, but because you're not open-minded enough to understand why, there's no point arguing. Do you think you, being the millionth person to tell me, is going to change how I am after so many years? No, you're not. You're wasting your breath. I respect your beliefs and understand that we will never be able to form a working friendship with me or anyone who is gay. And you're the one missing out, because I am the most trustworthy, supportive, caring person I know, and I would gladly go to any lengths to help the people I care about. Now, if you'll excuse me and forgive me for sounding rude, I will give you your space and let you soak in your moral, ethical, or theological superiority complex, whichever one you're condemning me for."

Now, I do truly apologizes if that offends some people. Perhaps you understand how a gay person may feel now when you come up to them, tell them their lives are worthless or that they're not as Holy as thou art. I respect a person until they do something disrespectful towards me or any of my friends, including deaf, hearing, gay, or straight.

(Wow. That did sound really rude. Sorry.)
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Welcome to AD! :wave:

:applause: Good post. :applause:
 
justamsboy said:
Although this post is two days old, I don't find it all odd that people are still arguing about homosexuality. I grew up in conservative Baptist southern Mississippi, and I had it very rough growing up. Luckily, things got a lot better once I moved to college and made true friends who don't care who I find love with. All they care about it me, as a person, and the friendship that we've formed. That's all that should matter.

However, I think I should contribute to the argument. I just want to contribute this website on Homosexuality in Humans and Nature. I haven't learned to quote things yet, so I'm sorry I can't do any of it in here.

And if you do read that website, you'll find that homosexuality is common in nature with animals too. So if it is so unnatural and God created all animals, so therefore all animals are perfect, and the only reason humans aren't is because God gave us free will.... why do animals do it? Just a though. But anyway, I respect that it makes some people uncomfortable, but to those who would go out of their way to tell me I'm going to hell or that I lead an unnatural life, I have this to say:

"Please... shut up. I don't care. I never have, I never will. I am happy with who I am. I have accepted it, and I'm sorry that you can't. It wasn't a choice, but because you're not open-minded enough to understand why, there's no point arguing. Do you think you, being the millionth person to tell me, is going to change how I am after so many years? No, you're not. You're wasting your breath. I respect your beliefs and understand that we will never be able to form a working friendship with me or anyone who is gay. And you're the one missing out, because I am the most trustworthy, supportive, caring person I know, and I would gladly go to any lengths to help the people I care about. Now, if you'll excuse me and forgive me for sounding rude, I will give you your space and let you soak in your moral, ethical, or theological superiority complex, whichever one you're condemning me for."

Now, I do truly apologizes if that offends some people. Perhaps you understand how a gay person may feel now when you come up to them, tell them their lives are worthless or that they're not as Holy as thou art. I respect a person until they do something disrespectful towards me or any of my friends, including deaf, hearing, gay, or straight.

(Wow. That did sound really rude. Sorry.)
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Wow!! GREAT GREAT post!

I have defended my GLBT friends and I have been told that I would go to hell for my sin. It is a sin to defend my friends? What a joke! Thos e people who told me told me really need a good hard look at themselves because that was seriously uncalled for and very judgemental.
 
I do not care to have my sexuality compared to animals. I am not an animal. Do not compare me to an animal and, most certainly, do not support my right to existence to an animal.

That said, I need not repeat the obvious fact that homosexuality is genetic. I have proof. I need not spend a second defending my extistence nor right to be a contributing citizen of any community. What happens between consenting adults (within the realm of sexual proclivities) is nobody's right to dictate.

That said, I should talk about an experience in "defending a gay person":

I went to school with an out, out, out gay person. He wore women's panties with see-thru pants. He collected Barbie dolls and dreamed of being (and would become) a cheerleader. He was GIRL. I think that factor was why there was no respect nor amicable association with him.

I had encouraged him to join me in playing intramural volleyball. He, reluctantly, agreed. All the players on the opposite side tried to spike the ball - in his direction. They mocked his femininity. The last straw was when it was his turn to serve and, to return the ball to him, they'd directed the ball to hit him hard and it did. He'd left in a huff, shattering the glass door to the gymnasium.

While I did not defend him up to that point, I was regarded differently by my peers. I'd received approval.
 
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For the record, I did not compare "you" or any other "human" to an animal. Nor did I compare your right to an existence on this Earth to an animal's right. (Although I'm sure many animal activists out there would have a very strong opinion about that.) I simply provided evidence that homosexuality is prevalent in all of nature, not just humans, in order to make a point that it is not a choice nor unnatural. This does not in any way conflict with the theory that it's genetic, as I am a strong believer in it being genetic as well. I have read the same evidence as you. In my opinion, you and I are on the same side... just with different approaches to promoting understanding.

I just wish everyone would look at "the big picture". The little good deeds in life that we do for others are what make it worthwhile. I'm just tired of all the hate and disrespect some of us have for one another. It's unnecessary. It can destroy lives.

EDIT: Thank you Wokamuka for that story on your friend that you involved in intramural. It was unfortunate what happened in the end. That's a shame what the other team did.

And also for the record, I am a very open-minded person willing to hear everyone's opinions and thoughts. I like to promote communication between people, and I will gladly be willing to discuss my opinions or thoughts with someone who is interested. Sometimes communication can overcome barriers people never knew existed.
 
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jillio said:
Standing up for gays and lesbians hasn't cost me any thing that held any importance for me to start with (namely the distain of the bigoted, the self righteous, and the narrowminded.) It has however, gained me several good friendships that I treasure.
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totally with you. I have never hidden who I am (after I figured it ou:lol:)

I you like me it is for who I am. I like people for who they are.
gay/str8 most important is if they are good people. :h5:
 
if I see over 25% gay in the world out of whole population. Then Earth is DOOM!

But that's okay. I'm cool with it.
 
Secretblend said:
It is totally different. Being deaf is not a choice. I was born deaf. Most Deaf people didn't get to choose to be deaf or not. However, you and I and everybody do choose who you want to be with and what kind of relationship you want to be in.
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Being deaf is a choice. You can get a cochlear implant and, with the C.I.'s promises, will no longer be deaf. Naturally, your argument is invalid.
 
Bottesini said:
ok with doomed?
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yeah...

lava.jpg
 
PowerON said:
if I see over 25% gay in the world out of whole population. Then Earth is DOOM!

But that's okay. I'm cool with it.
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When human nature proved to be natural, the Nazis stepped in and said, "It aint' gonna happen." It has happened frequently. 25% (even by Nazi standards) is extremely high. You must be very "tolerant".

Everyone, who is heterosexual, knows that will never happen. Because heterosexuals will make sure it never happens by genocide.
 
PowerON said:
if I see over 25% gay in the world out of whole population. Then Earth is DOOM!

But that's okay. I'm cool with it.
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Well there are some studies said there's 10 percent of homosexuals around America, but my opinion, it could be like 30 percent due to people's closed mind about their sexual orientation such like those who are bisexual which I mean those men or women who marry with opposite gender and hiding the sexual stuff with the other same gender.

The population of homosexual folks are unpredictable.
 
It's doom! DOOOOOOM! Oh wait.. I think Earth is already doom. Oh well.
 
Wokamuka said:
When human nature proved to be natural, the Nazis stepped in and said, "It aint' gonna happen." It has happened frequently. 25% (even by Nazi standards) is extremely high. You must be very "tolerant".

Everyone, who is heterosexual, knows that will never happen. Because heterosexuals will make sure it never happens by genocide.
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What was the ignorance of the AIDS epidemic then?
 
Wokamuka said:
Being deaf is a choice. You can get a cochlear implant and, with the C.I.'s promises, will no longer be deaf. Naturally, your argument is invalid.
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most cochlear implants wont help anyways and some people cant afford it, being deaf is not a choice im not gonna say oop im hearing today, but ill be deaf tommorow, and im going to be a martian monday and a unicorn tuesday, its not a choice
 
Wokamuka said:
I do not care to have my sexuality compared to animals. I am not an animal. Do not compare me to an animal and, most certainly, do not support my right to existence to an animal.

That said, I need not repeat the obvious fact that homosexuality is genetic. I have proof.


I beleive homosexuality is a choice, dont care if someone wants to be gay or not, however a real feminine guy that plays dressup is kinda hot too me anyhoos I still think its a choice, also however I beleive gays have just as much right to be here and get married or whatever as anyone else no matter what they are there still people gay or no
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I'm bi. I'm also for animal rights so I'd much rather be compaired to an animal then to some people I know. In fact I'd be must flattered to be compaired to my guide dog Jilli as she has such a beautiful personality. Very few people I know can match it.

As far as deffending gays. I don't understand homophobic people as gays aren't hurting anyone.

I'm all for diversity.
 
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