What does TC stand for????

Interpretrator said:
I had a class with one student with a CI who did not sign, another who signed and spoke, and another from a different country who didn't know much ASL so I had to define almost every sign I used.

There is literally no way for one teacher to reach all these students. I signed and spoke but I was ALWAYS missing at least one student and had to repeat almost everything I said in two or three different ways. A one-hour class exhausted the hell out of me.

"Total communication" is a joke unless you have four different teachers using four different modalities in the same classroom. (And that was a joke.)
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Couldn't agree more. TC is like any other electic approach to anything. Without a strong theroetical foundation, it is a matter of combining so many methods that that teachers and students are left without a base from which to operate. It creates a process totally without direction. Students get a little of this, a little of that, and none of it leads to linguistic or educational competence.

Bi-Bi, on the other hand, integrates the use of 2 separate languages and methods, drawing on the strengths of both, thus providing a strong theoretical foundation from which to operate. There is a big difference between integrating facets of different methodology in a complimentary way and an electic approach that uses bits and pieces without any consideration for the ways in which the different facets work together. As a consequence, TC, as an electic approach, ends up working against itself and providing students and teachers a classroom with a confusing linguistic environment and absolutely no direction.

But that is not surprising, as TC is an outgrowth of the oralist philosophy, and developed without concern for an understanding of the methods it attempts to utilize.
 
deafbajagal said:
TC also could mean Totally Confusing (for the students).
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When we were examining education programs and schools for our daughter we observed several TC programs. In addition to being academically inferior by far to the education she would receive in our local public school, to call them total communication was a joke. The instruction and virtually all the communication was in sign and there was virtually no emphasis placed on providing the students an oral or aural method of communication. We did not just observe the kids our daughter's age but also the kids in their high schools and across the board, these kids had virtually no oral skills. They could not communicate with hearing kids their own age and thus were unable to socially interact with them.

Totally Confusing, probably, Total Waste of Time, without a doubt.
Rick
 
these kids had virtually no oral skills. They could not communicate with hearing kids their own age and thus were unable to socially interact with them
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rick, that scenerio can be said about oral-only kids too. Many oral only kids can be hard to understand (espeically if they are speaking to someone who is unfamiliar with "deaf speech) Not to mention that oral kids can (and do) have significent social issues. It's not just ASLer/ TC
kids.
 
I love it when you always backs up the hearing-impaired kids/people DD, becauses tis so true, that bloody deafies tends to forget, or assume hearing impaired are somewhat 'more hearing in so they are a hearie' which is untrue. Deaf and deaf has ALOT more in common than the Deaf propagandists would ever admit...
 
deafdyke said:
rick, that scenerio can be said about oral-only kids too. Many oral only kids can be hard to understand (espeically if they are speaking to someone who is unfamiliar with "deaf speech) Not to mention that oral kids can (and do) have significent social issues. It's not just ASLer/ TC
kids.
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I agree...oral-only programs do not give deaf children full access to language, communication, and information 100% of the time like hearing children do so I think it is even worse than TC.
 
Grummer said:
I love it when you always backs up the hearing-impaired kids/people DD, becauses tis so true, that bloody deafies tends to forget, or assume hearing impaired are somewhat 'more hearing in so they are a hearie' which is untrue. Deaf and deaf has ALOT more in common than the Deaf propagandists would ever admit...
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Yea, as a deaf oral person growing up, I thought I had nothing in common with Deaf people but when I learned ASL, I couldnt believe how much I clicked with them. I just met a girl last week who is just starting to learn ASL after being oral all her life. She looked so frustrated trying to understand everyone either in ASL or in spoken English. Gosh, I am so happy I am not stuck like that anymore!
 
rick48 said:
When we were examining education programs and schools for our daughter we observed several TC programs. In addition to being academically inferior by far to the education she would receive in our local public school, to call them total communication was a joke. The instruction and virtually all the communication was in sign and there was virtually no emphasis placed on providing the students an oral or aural method of communication. We did not just observe the kids our daughter's age but also the kids in their high schools and across the board, these kids had virtually no oral skills. They could not communicate with hearing kids their own age and thus were unable to socially interact with them.

Totally Confusing, probably, Total Waste of Time, without a doubt.
Rick
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I know what you mean, Rick. The programs you described did not carry Total Communication philosophy correctly, although carrying it out is difficult because it is nearly impossible doing so. What the TC program is supposed to be doing is exposing the students to ALL communication modalities possible that includes speech, signing, gesturing, use of pictures, and get this- auditory training and auditory comprehension practice. I'm thrilled to know that you and your wife find a placement that works best for your child.
 
Grummer said:
I love it when you always backs up the hearing-impaired kids/people DD, becauses tis so true, that bloody deafies tends to forget, or assume hearing impaired are somewhat 'more hearing in so they are a hearie' which is untrue. Deaf and deaf has ALOT more in common than the Deaf propagandists would ever admit...
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Yep, you're right. All of us should remember to serve ALL kids, not just the small population of the Deaf kids - but the other kids who also have needs from having hearing loss. In the U.S., hard of hearing kids often fall in the cracks of the education system because they are not deaf enough to get the same services/support as deaf kids - but they cannot hear enough to benefit from little or no services by being enrolled in regular education classes. Deaf students who are oral often get shafted as well. That's wrong. I have very strong opinions about the education system and methods...but when I'm in my teacher mode - I have to put a lid on my personal opinions and experiences (hence, stop being a bloody Deafie)...so that I can fully support the parents in making well-informed decisions for their child.
 
rick48 said:
When we were examining education programs and schools for our daughter we observed several TC programs. In addition to being academically inferior by far to the education she would receive in our local public school, to call them total communication was a joke. The instruction and virtually all the communication was in sign and there was virtually no emphasis placed on providing the students an oral or aural method of communication. We did not just observe the kids our daughter's age but also the kids in their high schools and across the board, these kids had virtually no oral skills. They could not communicate with hearing kids their own age and thus were unable to socially interact with them.

Totally Confusing, probably, Total Waste of Time, without a doubt.
Rick
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This comment makes it seem like for a deaf child to be successful in your eyes, they must possess oral skills or interact with hearing kids or what? If they can interact with other deaf kids, is that such a bad thing? Why do all deaf children HAVE to interact with hearing kids? If they HAVE to then why not all hearing kids interact with deaf children?

Not only that, but it also seems like these deaf children are failures cuz they dont have oral skills and that is a shame cuz I know so many who have lead successful and happy lives without being able to speak a word. Geez!

Poeple with views like yours make life difficult for many deaf children and adults when it doesnt need to be. :roll:
 
deafbajagal said:
Yep, you're right. All of us should remember to serve ALL kids, not just the small population of the Deaf kids - but the other kids who also have needs from having hearing loss. In the U.S., hard of hearing kids often fall in the cracks of the education system because they are not deaf enough to get the same services/support as deaf kids - but they cannot hear enough to benefit from little or no services by being enrolled in regular education classes. Deaf students who are oral often get shafted as well. That's wrong. I have very strong opinions about the education system and methods...but when I'm in my teacher mode - I have to put a lid on my personal opinions and experiences (hence, stop being a bloody Deafie)...so that I can fully support the parents in making well-informed decisions for their child.
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Same here but here on AD, I can voice my opinions because I am not in a teacher mode here and I can be painfully blunt sometimes. You are the better person here on AD. :)
 
Nah, I'm not the better person. I have to really work super, super hard to restrain myself from exploding sometimes. Sometimes I want to scream and rant, especially when I see a child going through what I did. Words can never describe the hurt, despair, helplessness, loneliness, anger, and bitterness that I endured as a deaf child thrown in a messed-up world.

I think it was the deaf actor Bernard Shaw (I'm not 100% sure of this source) who said something to this effect: Being deaf is like looking at the world through a glass box. I was in that box for many years...and I get pissed when people keep trying to put kids in the box, too. It was not until later I was able to get out from looking through the glass box...and joining the world. Perhaps that's what keeps me restrained and composed (so far)...knowing that I was able to get out...perhaps they will, too, in time.
 
deafbajagal said:
Nah, I'm not the better person. I have to really work super, super hard to restrain myself from exploding sometimes. Sometimes I want to scream and rant, especially when I see a child going through what I did. Words can never describe the hurt, despair, helplessness, loneliness, anger, and bitterness that I endured as a deaf child thrown in a messed-up world.

I think it was the deaf actor Bernard Shaw (I'm not 100% sure of this source) who said something to this effect: Being deaf is like looking at the world through a glass box. I was in that box for many years...and I get pissed when people keep trying to put kids in the box, too. It was not until later I was able to get out from looking through the glass box...and joining the world. Perhaps that's what keeps me restrained and composed (so far)...knowing that I was able to get out...perhaps they will, too, in time.
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U should have seen me being hard on some of the parents here on AD 2 years ago but I was honest about my views and feelings. Oh well, that's life!

My hubby was talking to a couple who has a deaf 5 year old with an implant yesterday at Kings Dominion (it was Deaf awareness day). He was asking them about the implant and if they were happy with it. They said the doctors pushed and pushed them to get their son implanted when they didnt feel right about it and sure enough, their son didnt get any benefit from it. They told him that they regret not listening to their own gut feelings. Now, they want their son and themselves to learn ASL cuz they noticed that he is missing out what is being said around him too much and they dont like it. Wow!
 
That's what upsets me about cochlear implants...so many times the kids do NOT get the auditory training and intense language training (regardless if speech is included or not) that is supposed to follow up with CIs. That's why I have to applaud parents who do make sure that their children do get the training and services that is supposed to go with the CIs. More than 95% (a rough guess) of the children with CIs whom I serve as a teacher do not have the appropriate training (although I do what I can in the classroom). Training has to be intense and consistent...not only at school in a setting such as a total communication environment but in the home as well. So many times the "experts" such as the one you described that was pushing the parents slap on a CI on a kid and say, "Well, enjoy it!" And they don't provide the services, resources, support, and training that is supposed to go with this procedure. Also so many of these "experts" keep linking success of speech to using CIs, which is unfair and biased...and untrue. There is no reason why a child with CI cannot or should not learn sign language. Kudos to the parents who make sure that the child who is implanted get the services s/he needs. And that includes determining whether or not TC is right for the child's needs.
 
deafbajagal said:
That's what upsets me about cochlear implants...so many times the kids do NOT get the auditory training and intense language training (regardless if speech is included or not) that is supposed to follow up with CIs. That's why I have to applaud parents who do make sure that their children do get the training and services that is supposed to go with the CIs. More than 95% (a rough guess) of the children with CIs whom I serve as a teacher do not have the appropriate training (although I do what I can in the classroom). Training has to be intense and consistent...not only at school in a setting such as a total communication environment but in the home as well. So many times the "experts" such as the one you described that was pushing the parents slap on a CI on a kid and say, "Well, enjoy it!" And they don't provide the services, resources, support, and training that is supposed to go with this procedure. Also so many of these "experts" keep linking success of speech to using CIs, which is unfair and biased...and untrue. There is no reason why a child with CI cannot or should not learn sign language. Kudos to the parents who make sure that the child who is implanted get the services s/he needs. And that includes determining whether or not TC is right for the child's needs.
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If the kids are not getting the proper auditory training and intense language training then I say shame on the parents.

I am the parent of a ci child and I have not encountered professionals in the ci field who "slap" a ci on a kid and then say "Well enjoy it". Virtually to a person, they will tell you that what you do for your child post-implant is even more important then deciding to get an implant for your child. They will also tell you that post-implant auditory/oral training is a must.

What I have encountered are parents who expect the ci to do the hard work as they do nothing. They do not follow-up with the kids' post-ci training, they do not spend the time at home necessary to take advantage of the wonderful technology that their child has. I have also encountered the TC programs and the Bi-Bi programs who will tell the parents that they will give their child the oral training that is needed for a ci child and then place them in an almost exclusive signing environment.

Both these parents and educators then sit back and blame the professionals.

Bottom line is that the buck stops with the parent--it is your child and your responsibility to make certain you are providing every opportunity for your child to take advatange of their ci. Get off your butt and spend time with your child, that is what we did.

Finally, as my rant is nearing its end, I have been around the cochlear community for 20 years and if a parent in this day and age truly thinks that all they have to do is give their child a ci and then they will magically start talking then those parents are idiots who did not do their homework because they certainly never talked to any ci parents, especially those with ci kids with good oral skills for no one would be telling them that and I do not believe for one second that any implant center and/or ci surgeon is telling parents that they do not have to do any post-implant auditory/oral rehab with their child.
Rick
 
deafbajagal said:
That's what upsets me about cochlear implants...so many times the kids do NOT get the auditory training and intense language training (regardless if speech is included or not) that is supposed to follow up with CIs. That's why I have to applaud parents who do make sure that their children do get the training and services that is supposed to go with the CIs. More than 95% (a rough guess) of the children with CIs whom I serve as a teacher do not have the appropriate training (although I do what I can in the classroom). Training has to be intense and consistent...not only at school in a setting such as a total communication environment but in the home as well. So many times the "experts" such as the one you described that was pushing the parents slap on a CI on a kid and say, "Well, enjoy it!" And they don't provide the services, resources, support, and training that is supposed to go with this procedure. Also so many of these "experts" keep linking success of speech to using CIs, which is unfair and biased...and untrue. There is no reason why a child with CI cannot or should not learn sign language. Kudos to the parents who make sure that the child who is implanted get the services s/he needs. And that includes determining whether or not TC is right for the child's needs.
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Well, I got an email from the mother of the deaf 2 year old whom my son is with daily and is tight with. She is getting her CI surgery this Thursday and the mother is very emotional about it. She was afraid that I would be mad at her...I gave her a big hug today and she cried. I asked her why was she so emotional..s.he said she is not confident with this decision but the doctors kept tell ing her and her hubby better now than later. Now, that kinda upsets me cuz parental guts are always right and now they are doubting themselves. They do want to continue ASL with their daughter but they did say that the doctors told them that it is strongly recommended to start using more spoken language and stop using ASL. Their daughter's language level AT ASL was tested at 4 years old (2 years above her age appropriate level) and the doctors want the parents to start using less ASL? I think that is just so wrong of them. This is gonna be an emotional week for all of us cuz I feel so bonded with this family and I can see that the parents especially the mother is still not confident with this decision but decided to go ahead with it. Geez...I really cant say how I feel..I feel a little confused..I want to be supportive but yet at the same time, I want to tell them to LISTEN to their own guts NOT the doctors. Oh well. ugh!

Anyways..this is off topic so better get on topic.
 
shel90 said:
Well, I got an email from the mother of the deaf 2 year old whom my son is with daily and is tight with. She is getting her CI surgery this Thursday and the mother is very emotional about it. She was afraid that I would be mad at her...I gave her a big hug today and she cried. I asked her why was she so emotional..s.he said she is not confident with this decision but the doctors kept tell ing her and her hubby better now than later. Now, that kinda upsets me cuz parental guts are always right and now they are doubting themselves. They do want to continue ASL with their daughter but they did say that the doctors told them that it is strongly recommended to start using more spoken language and stop using ASL. Their daughter's language level AT ASL was tested at 4 years old (2 years above her age appropriate level) and the doctors want the parents to start using less ASL? I think that is just so wrong of them. This is gonna be an emotional week for all of us cuz I feel so bonded with this family and I can see that the parents especially the mother is still not confident with this decision but decided to go ahead with it. Geez...I really cant say how I feel..I feel a little confused..I want to be supportive but yet at the same time, I want to tell them to LISTEN to their own guts NOT the doctors. Oh well. ugh!

Anyways..this is off topic so better get on topic.
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You can support them and encourage them to listen to their gut where their child is concerned at the same time. Just let them know that doctors are experts on hearing, not deafness.
 
Okay, I have seen the word "Sim-Com" all over the Internet. What is it?
 
Simultaneous communication, as in speaking and signing at the same time.
 
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