what do you like about hearing culture?

[Botanique]

Bird Watching

Birds are beautiful and flight rhythm and like dance. The bird song is a very big part of watching. Without the song we see birds only when we see them. Hearing spots the bird is in the area, its whereabouts and kind. Music moves the heart and soul. It can influence emotion. Not all music can truly be called music. And hearing are very listening challenged for 2-3 generations now.

 

[Calvero]

Birds are beautiful and flight rhythm and like dance. The bird song is a very big part of watching. Without the song we see birds only when we see them. Hearing spots the bird is in the area, its whereabouts and kind. Music moves the heart and soul. It can influence emotion. Not all music can truly be called music. And hearing are very listening challenged for 2-3 generations now.

I actually believe that hearies have been listening challenged for most of history. Another quote from Bernstein.

"It's only that Cézanne is for the eye, therefore simple, immediately perceptible; Whereas the Debussy is for the ear, and therefore diffictult, removed from immediate perception, because it doesn't even live until it is performed." - The Infinite Variety of Music

Can you name a time in history when more than 40% of society was musically literate?

 

[hoichi]

My utilization of the word DEAF is to indicate it is my condition not a "culture". ?

Thank you for answer drphil. I was sincerely curious. So why use all caps to make others aware your deaf? Why not just use deaf
I've been immersed in Deaf culture since I was nine (or according to you I was send to a non culture since I was 9)' regardless I've only ever seen deaf all caps used as DEAF by those who believe and hold and live within DEAF culture. I've never seen it used by someone who views it as non existent.
I find it interesting that's all.

aside: I am aware in "culture" one wants to have a binary situation: "hearing" and "deaf" even though one may have a "slight lost" of say 10 decibels. Classfied as "deaf" even though uses a hearing aid does "assist in hearing".deaf?

Fair enough. Though I've never met anyone with a 10 db loss classified as deaf. I've only been deaf for 20 years and Deaf resedential gov school educated onto gally. IM fluent in ASL. As such My knowledge of the existence of DEAF culture obviously is far less then any knowledge you have. I admire your faith you have and hold in reading that one book in sociology You keep bringing up. That's cool. Though I'd be very hesetent in putting so much faith in one book from a social science which has changed so much since derkhiems suicide was written.
I degrees.
Having said that. Knowing my very limited knowledge regarding the existence of Deaf culture, or according to you deaf cultures non existence. I admit I'm crazy and what I lived and experience just doesn't exists according to you and some hearies. It's not like I've never been told the language I use ASL isn't a language either. Fair. I'm cool with being crazy it at least makes me happy,
but why not just use a simple way to measure deafness if it's so so important to you. Which clearly it is. Who is deaf and who is not.?
In order to go to a DEAF school one needs to show something and demonstrate something. It's not like all hearies can just walk into a Deaf school and enroll. So when it comes down to who is cultural Deaf I would feel safe to say if you were Deaf enough to be enrolled in a government resedential school for the deaf then it's safe to accept that indeed you are deaf. If that's whT you want to do. I find it very easy to understand. But then again I was born heRie and deaf at 9. And deaf school educated thereafter. I remember my very first day int he dorms of deAf school. Not knowing one sign save the middle finger. I shake my head knowing what I experience as deaf culture is just in my head. As it according to you doesn't exist.
It's an interesting world. All round.

Does this suggest? perhaps an inflation of numbers of persons who don't hear at all?

I don't know. But I think it would be rather hard to fake adiology tests.
But men being such ugly fallen creatures I sure some have tried.

I have been aware of the intermural exercise for a long time-who is "really deaf"
ll?

Why does that matter so so so much to you?

Not up to me to decide if ANY sign communication is a "language" within Lingusitic classifications. It has been so indicated over the last couple of hundred years -ll?

Yet you feel it's up to you to decide who is in what culture or even if a said culture exists or not.

Oh well one can argue that language-English-does seem to be used in different "cultures:-Canada/United States/United Kingdom/New Zealand/Australia etc which negates the proposition-apparently. ll?

I asked a question regarding a distinct an entirely different language. Not iif the same language spoken in different nations has different cultures. I'll ask again though
If ASL is a language does it have a culture to go with it or not? You declare a certain culture figment of peoples Imagination and does not exist. Fine. But we are still left with the language those very people use. Does that language exists or is it too just an illusion and does not actually exists?
Which is it doc?
Really?

More discussion in Sociology- who is really deaf?

Why is sociology the only subject worthy of exploring your question

 

[Calvero]

@Hoichi How would you define culture?

 

[sheri363]

lets get back on topic, but yeah whatever you want to say or explore the curiosities of what is hearing culture , please add!

i like your post Sheri...

Calvero, this is interesting...so like it sort of disspell the myths that all or most hearies actually 'hears music' but just chung along with the fashionable 'beats' without really know what its going on, or what's its about , like persuasion to a sort of "me me or judge what better for me' attitudes based on myths or greed or lust or sore egos or whatever?? or imagery of the demon world as would be in 'heavy metal' music or riding a imaginary Harley Davidson or singing about imaginary hot date...or what-have-they-sang-about that kind of thing but often times it is NOT compatible with their real-life ideals of how they do things but left as 'fantastic music' and in the heads...deafies similar? attitudes and dress to be punks, or gangsta or posh, or sporty or beachy, or muscles ??!

Grummer. I enjoy your thought-provoking questions and posts...most of them that is!

 

[metalangel]

Just wanted to add something to the music thing: I sometimes use it to help me sleep or leave my iPod/laptop on shuffle while I'm doing something else like cooking or cleaning.

Especially while asleep, I will really *listen* to music. It's hard to describe but I feel like I have more brain powered devoted to actually processing it and often come away with a very powerful attachment to whichever song it was that so grabbed my subconscious attention.

Sorry if that sounded like gibberish.

 

[sheri363]

@drphil

I'm really confused about what you are saying concerning deaf people in general. It seems to me that you are lumping ALL of us into some sort of a nonentity existence. Like we're second class or something?? We don't have a culture per se?

Did you say you have taken sociology right? Did you read only one book on it? Is that it? By that measure you have declared to all of us here that you are the leading authority on this subject? So if that's the case that means you are aware that sociology covers a very broad expanse of human tendencies and traits depending on their own circumstances and environments. Here's a snippet of the definition of 'culture' from dictionary.com:

1.
a. The totality of socially transmitted behavior patterns, arts, beliefs, institutions, and all other products of human work and thought.
b. These patterns, traits, and products considered as the expression of a particular period, class, community, or population: Edwardian culture; Japanese culture; the culture of poverty.
c. These patterns, traits, and products considered with respect to a particular category, such as a field, subject, or mode of expression: religious culture in the Middle Ages; musical culture; oral culture.
d. The predominating attitudes and behavior that characterize the functioning of a group or organization.

I think that you ought to go back to reading that sociology book of yours some more. I think you failed to grasp or comprehend the basic concept of 'sociology'.

 

[hoichi]

@Hoichi How would you define culture?

First I think it's important NOT to personally define a word which already has a meaning and is used to mean something.

For this discussion I think it's important to stick to current meaning of the word culture or how it's presently defined by which ever scope it is being used in. Culture is defined differently depending on which discipline is using the term. Obviously culture being used in biology is a completely different meaning though same word then she it is used in linguistics, or sociology, or cultural anthropology for that matter

It's not so much what I personally hold the word to mean ( granted I accept the post modern world as it is) which matters here though is what it actually does meAn or imply that's importAnt.

I think a good start for this discussion is this from the u of Minnesota CARLA

"For the purposes of the Intercultural Studies Project, culture is defined as the shared patterns of behaviors and interactions, cognitive constructs, and affective understanding that are learned through a process of socialization. These shared patterns identify the members of a culture group while also distinguishing those of another group."


So I will accept the hearies insistence that we deaf have no culture if they can demonstrate that we DEAF do not have shared patterns of behaviour, that these patterns are not learned through socialization that our cognitive constructs are are in now way shape or form different from hearies social or cognitive constructs and that our shared patterns of behaviour do not identify us as a member of our said group.

I'm also very curious for those here who insist that we DEAF do NOT posses a culture to explain ASL idioms?

If we have no culture though somehow maybe still have a distinct and real language then what the hell are our idioms.?

Ever use ASL idioms on hearies in English? They tilt their head like wee dogs trying to understand.........

Can we have idioms without a culture?

He'll I've licked and promised some girls in my day.....cow it

 

[ambrosia]

lets get back on topic, but yeah whatever you want to say or explore the curiosities of what is hearing culture , please add!

i like your post Sheri...

Calvero, this is interesting...so like it sort of disspell the myths that all or most hearies actually 'hears music' but just chung along with the fashionable 'beats' without really know what its going on, or what's its about , like persuasion to a sort of "me me or judge what better for me' attitudes based on myths or greed or lust or sore egos or whatever?? or imagery of the demon world as would be in 'heavy metal' music or riding a imaginary Harley Davidson or singing about imaginary hot date...or what-have-they-sang-about that kind of thing but often times it is NOT compatible with their real-life ideals of how they do things but left as 'fantastic music' and in the heads...deafies similar? attitudes and dress to be punks, or gangsta or posh, or sporty or beachy, or muscles ??!

Huh? I think might be lost. Most of that I'm really not sure what you mean. Did you just say, basically, that hearies don't pay attention to the lyrics of songs and that it's all just fantasy and/or they just listen it to it as part of their "image"? My apologies if that's not the gist of what you said, but if it IS you are way off.

 

[Bottesini]

If we have no culture though somehow maybe still have a distinct and real language then what the hell are our idioms.?

Ever use ASL idioms on hearies in English? They tilt their head like wee dogs trying to understand.........

Can we have idioms without a culture?

He'll I've licked and promised some girls in my day.....cow it

And yet your many responses seem to indicate the exact opposite of your idiom.

 

[hoichi]

Indeed they do.....I was trying to demonstrate a point not state my personal beliefs....

 

[Calvero]

Just wanted to add something to the music thing: I sometimes use it to help me sleep or leave my iPod/laptop on shuffle while I'm doing something else like cooking or cleaning.

Especially while asleep, I will really *listen* to music. It's hard to describe but I feel like I have more brain powered devoted to actually processing it and often come away with a very powerful attachment to whichever song it was that so grabbed my subconscious attention.

Sorry if that sounded like gibberish.

When I say listening I'm comparing it to reading a book(active) rather than watching tv(passive). If you're using the same skills you use while reading then you're actively listening.

--

EDIT: "He'll I've licked and promised some girls in my day.....cow it "

You beat up and engaged some girls and then you milked a cow?

EDIT II: Don't tell me what it means if it's something dirty...

 

[drphil]

The reason I keep referring to "culture" within the context of Sociology-that is where the subject is discussed

Does some DEAF persons utilize a Cochlear Implant. speak and don't use ASL et al in comparison to the "voice off" Deaf who do use ASL et al suggest the fact that all "deaf" persons don't react exactly the same in real life?

Aside: Harlan Lane's thesis that a Cochlear Implant was "Genocide" to the Deaf community? Valid today? Further aside: trying to figure how I committed "genocide against myself" Doesn't exactly much sense!

Query: what exactly is ASL "idiom" signs?

 

[Grummer]

Huh? I think might be lost. Most of that I'm really not sure what you mean. Did you just say, basically, that hearies don't pay attention to the lyrics of songs and that it's all just fantasy and/or they just listen it to it as part of their "image"? My apologies if that's not the gist of what you said, but if it IS you are way off.

how can i be way off, if its all about image and attitudes and taste??

heard of expression 'not my cup of tea' or 'i prefer to rage it' or how come is it that blacks like raps and whites like metal, you'd hardly ever seen a black heavy mentalist...(sounds a little racist but the point is theres some kind of 'imagined' ideal which these variety of music do tend to promote, and even at that, dare i say promote a rebellious attitude or 'wanna party' -depending on how they (listeners) interpret the music and its images of what it supposedly promotes...aggression, political mistrust/distrust? hatred / or imagining a perfect world or a dream place that every one knows it doesnt exist?!...

ok explain me , how is it this is way off? how?

 

[hoichi]

The reason I keep referring to "culture" within the context of Sociology-that is where the subject is discussed?

Sociology is one subject culture is discussed in. It is by no means the only subject it is discussed in. Another would be cultural anthropology. Another would be certain branches and of shoots of linguistics.

Does some DEAF persons utilize a Cochlear Implant. speak and don't use ASL et al in comparison to the "voice off" Deaf who do use ASL et al suggest the fact that all "deaf" persons don't react exactly the same in real life?

Golly doc. Of course not all deaf react exactly the same way to their deafness in. Real life. Who ever thought such a thing? Just because one is a part of a given culture does not mean every single human being of that culture reacts exactly the same way to the world. Do Canadians every single one all react exactly the same way to something? Really really? How about Americans?

Aside: Harlan Lane's thesis that a Cochlear Implant was "Genocide" to the Deaf community? Valid today? Further aside: trying to figure how I committed "genocide against myself" Doesn't exactly much sense!

I think it is very much valid. Care to elaborate why it is no longer valid? You have never been culturally DEAF thus I don't see how you should even bother trying to figure out if you committed genocide against yourself. Lane wasn't speaking about you. (For those unaware lane also is hearing). Doc have you ever wondered perhaps this really isn't about you? Further maybe you are not aware but hearing people are and can be culturally DEAF Most codas I know are hearing but are culturally Deaf. Being culturally DEAF does not hinge or rest entirely and completely on decibel loss or physical deafness. That's one part of it. The only part you seem to be able to grasp but in fact it actually isn't the fundamental part of it.

Query: what exactly is ASL "idiom" signs?

Are asking me what an idiom is doc?

Really you don't know?

Do you know any Canadian English idioms? Have you ever heard any idioms from London England? How about NYC? Or Australian idioms? All those are considered idioms of the same language English. The language you know. If you do not know what an idiom is I think you should first start with your own language and discover them. Of course you use idioms more then you care to admit. Indeed. I posted two ASL idioms. One may ask why?
Because idioms are directly tied to culture. If Deaf culture does not exist according to you then I siMply ask you to explain our idioms for us.

 

[caz12]

I been in both and it took me sometime to understand why deaf culture is how it D or d /, H OF H h/h Politcal views everywhere...life is what you make it sh1t happens and you rejust...small e.g. when I went deaf I ended up with brain issues for which I had give up car licence never drive again yes it did piss me big time so got free bus pass so go where I want travel the world(and I do)those dreams still there

 

[caz12]

just to add those dreams became reality got think of other ones now

 

[drphil]

The segments of Sociology RE "culture" seem to have varying matters. Up to any individual if that "makes sense" in the their real world?
There is "lots of study matter" if one wants to engage in a restricted manner-one's choice. Your time

IDIOM: dictionary: 1) a phrase that must be taken as a whole, usually having a meaning
that is not clear from the meaning of the individual words eg foot of the bill
2) the use of particular words or of words in an order English-"wash up the dishes" but NOT "wash up the baby
3) the language used by group-"in the scientific idiom"
4) a characteristic style of expression in art or music etc

 

[hoichi]

The segments of Sociology RE "culture" seem to have varying matters. Up to any individual if that "makes sense" in the their real world?etc

I'm not sure I understand your question. It is. Question right?
You posted that you keep harping on sociology due to it being the topic culture is discussed through. All I did was show that thoUgh sociology is ONE topics that does deal with culture it is by no means the ONLY topic that does so. And I posted the names of a couple of other disciplines that deal with culture.

T
There is "lots of study matter" if one wants to engage in a restricted manner-one's choice. Your timeetc

I have no plm whatsoever ever if you choose to use one book from one discipline to restrict your ideas and exploration of culture. I choose to use more then one book from one discipline though. Indeed it is ones choice.

T
IDIOM: dictionary: 1) a phrase that must be taken as a whole, usually having a meaning
that is not clear from the meaning of the individual words eg foot of the bill
2) the use of particular words or of words in an order English-"wash up the dishes" but NOT "wash up the baby
3) the language used by group-"in the scientific idiom"
4) a characteristic style of expression in art or music etc

Indeed.

Now if us DEAF are bereft of our culture according to you, yet some how still hold and posses a language distinct and separate from all oral languages then I ask really how can we have and use a language of our own yet not posses a culture.
Culture and language are entwined? I want to learn here. So just demonstrate for me how language and culture in in no way shape or form are related or entwined and I'll gladly shut up. I don't expect you to believe me that's why I'm trying to use things such as idioms to help show you what I mean.
I'm actually trying very much to hold your view and ideas. I want to believe us DeAF do not have any culture of our own. I wNt to believe what you do I so I can better understand what your posting.
But I can't really do that, because all you post is about one book from one discipline you seem to have read and that's it.
I'm not the kind of guy to peg all I believe on one academic book in one academic discipline. So pls doc.
Help me here
I agree with you. My culture and all deaf culture is an illusion trapped in our deaf heads.
Fine
Is our language an illusion too or is ASL somehow a real language yet posses no culture along with it?

 

[caz12]

you going to have different thought process and that can make different culture it has to