What dB loss makes you "deaf" rather than "hard-of-hearing"?

greema: Yes -- I hope Taric can expand on his explanation of Oral Deaf vs. oral deaf. My understanding has always been that *any* deaf person who is educated in an oral environment is oral period -- without any distiction being made as to whether they are Oral Deaf or oral deaf.

Taric: I thought the term oral deaf only applied to D/deaf people who do not sign and use a combination of lipreading and speech (and perhaps TC) for communication. If your friend is familiar with ASL and can speak, I don't know if I would consider him to be oral deaf since he knows sign, but perhaps I am completely wrong about that. After all, this is the first time I've ever heard of the term "Oral Deaf."

I'd appreciate any explanation you can offer. Thanks! :)
 
My understanding has always been that *any* deaf person who is educated in an oral environment is oral period -- without any distiction being made as to whether they are Oral Deaf or oral deaf.
even oral failures?
Why not use the term orally skilled, rather then lowercase oral deaf? I agree that the two terms can be confusing!
The defintion of an oral deaf person is one who choses (when given a choice between the two) to use oral language rather then Sign.
On the hard of hearing Children Website, they say that a 70 dcb loss is offically deaf....and I know you have to have at least 70 dcb loss to qualify for admission into NTID. (I'm five dcb short of that grrrrrrrrrr)
I've always IDd as deaf myself even though my audiogram shows me to be hoh. It's weird.....I can't hear thunder, but I can hear a lot of my female friends without lipreading!
 
DD,

Yes, I would consider oral "failures" to be oral deaf. After all, it is the communication mode (lipreading and TC) that defines the meaning of oral deaf -- not whether a person is an oral failure or success. Wouldn't you agree?

Why do we need another term to define those who were raised in an oral environment? What exactly would define someone as being orally skilled (or an oral "failure")? Someone who can lipread but is unable to voice for themselves? Someone who can lipread but has a limited ability to voice (i.e. having the ability to answer "yes/no" or to say one's name)? Where do we draw the line in terms of defining who is orally skilled and who isn't?

What do you call a deaf person raised in an oral environment who *didn't* have the option of choosing sign? Aren't they considered to be oral deaf as well?
 
Well, you can't put me in a box. I identify with almost all the labels except for Hearing Impaired and Oral Deaf.
 
I've always considered myself "deaf". I wear a powerful hearing aid and can hear a lot of things with it. I cannot hear high pitched sounds, like the sounds of a smoke alarm going off, the birds singing, and all the similarities. I have always spoke orally. I have had many comments that I spoke extremely well due to my severe-profound hearing loss. That's only because I went to the speech school when I was about 6 - 8 years old. Getting to the point, I consider myself deaf only because if I took my hearing aid off, I cannot hear a single thing! :)
 
greema: Yes -- I hope Taric can expand on his explanation of Oral Deaf vs. oral deaf. My understanding has always been that *any* deaf person who is educated in an oral environment is oral period -- without any distiction being made as to whether they are Oral Deaf or oral deaf.

Taric: I thought the term oral deaf only applied to D/deaf people who do not sign and use a combination of lipreading and speech (and perhaps TC) for communication. If your friend is familiar with ASL and can speak, I don't know if I would consider him to be oral deaf since he knows sign, but perhaps I am completely wrong about that. After all, this is the first time I've ever heard of the term "Oral Deaf."

I'd appreciate any explanation you can offer. Thanks! :)

Me too. I've never heard of this term either till yesterday. It had always been my understanding a Deaf person could have speech abilities but prefer sign to speech.
 
DD,

Do you have any comments on the questions I asked below? I'd be curious to know your thoughts! :)

DD,

Yes, I would consider oral "failures" to be oral deaf. After all, it is the communication mode (lipreading and TC) that defines the meaning of oral deaf -- not whether a person is an oral failure or success. Wouldn't you agree?

Why do we need another term to define those who were raised in an oral environment? What exactly would define someone as being orally skilled (or an oral "failure")? Someone who can lipread but is unable to voice for themselves? Someone who can lipread but has a limited ability to voice (i.e. having the ability to answer "yes/no" or to say one's name)? Where do we draw the line in terms of defining who is orally skilled and who isn't?

What do you call a deaf person raised in an oral environment who *didn't* have the option of choosing sign? Aren't they considered to be oral deaf as well?
 
(maybe she's not up to the challenge?)

greema,

:giggle: I hope DD will respond to my questions because I'd really like to know what criterions she thinks define someone who is orally skilled as opposed to an oral "failure." I'd also like to know if she agrees with me about the definition of oral deaf -- and the fact that oral deaf does not define a person by their success or failure.
 
Oral Deaf and oral deaf With TC

I've always capitalized the word Braille in honor of Louis Braille. :) In fact, many blind people I know who use Braille on a daily basis tend to capitalize the word.
If you'd like to learn more about Braille, the BRL (Braille Through Remote Learning) is an excellent website to refer to:

BRL: Braille Through Remote Learning
According to that website, braille are the raised dots, while Braille (capital B) is the system that is used for all types of braille, such as chemistry, music, language, etc.
Taric25, I am curious as to which you would consider John to be: oral deaf or Oral Deaf?
John is Oral Deaf. Think about it. He lives with a Hard-of-Hearing person, who signs ASL, and a Hearing-Blind person, who fingerspells and can neither use TSL nor Visual Frame Sign Language. He both signs and speaks. He chooses to do both. If he didn't, he would be at a serious communication loss.
I hope Taric can expand on his explanation of Oral Deaf vs. oral deaf. My understanding has always been that *any* deaf person who is educated in an oral environment is oral period -- without any distiction being made as to whether they are Oral Deaf or oral deaf.
An oral deaf person is oral but does neither uses ASL nor is in Deaf culture. An Oral Deaf person is oral and uses ASL and in in Deaf culture.
Taric: I thought the term oral deaf only applied to D/deaf people who do not sign and use a combination of lipreading and speech (and perhaps TC) for communication. If your friend is familiar with ASL and can speak, I don't know if I would consider him to be oral deaf since he knows sign, but perhaps I am completely wrong about that. After all, this is the first time I've ever heard of the term "Oral Deaf."
A deaf person who does not use sign and uses a combination of speech an lipreading only is oral deaf, but I would not consider someone who uses TC/SimComm (Total Communication/Simultanious Communication) to be oral deaf. As long as a Oral Deaf person signs ASL and is in Deaf culture, that person is Oral Deaf. I would not rule that person out of the Deaf community, simply because that person chooses to use TC/SimComm.
I can't hear thunder, but I can hear a lot of my female friends without lipreading!
It's possible you have have partial deafness limited to tone, since thunder is a very low tone, and women's voices are a high tone.
Yes, I would consider oral "failures" to be oral deaf. After all, it is the communication mode (lipreading and TC) that defines the meaning of oral deaf -- not whether a person is an oral failure or success. Wouldn't you agree?

Why do we need another term to define those who were raised in an oral environment? What exactly would define someone as being orally skilled (or an oral "failure")? Someone who can lipread but is unable to voice for themselves? Someone who can lipread but has a limited ability to voice (i.e. having the ability to answer "yes/no" or to say one's name)? Where do we draw the line in terms of defining who is orally skilled and who isn't?
An oral skilled person is someone who is understood by a Hearing layperson. If a Hearing layperson cannot understand a deaf person's speech, that deaf person is deaf, not oral deaf. If a deaf person's speech is not understood by a hearing layperson, and that deaf person uses ASL and is in Deaf culture, that person is Deaf, not oral deaf. If that deaf person's speech is understood by a Hearing layperson but does neither signs ASL nor is in Deaf culture, that person is oral deaf. If that deaf person's speech is understood by a Hearing layperson and signs ASL and is in Deaf culture, that person is Oral Deaf.
 
What exactly would define someone as being orally skilled (or an oral "failure")? Someone who can lipread but is unable to voice for themselves? Someone who can lipread but has a limited ability to voice (i.e. having the ability to answer "yes/no" or to say one's name)? Where do we draw the line in terms of defining who is orally skilled and who isn't?
I agree with Tariq about the definition of oral deaf......someone who has the abilty to be somewhat understood by hearing people via voicing expressive spoken English.
I'd say that someone who can lipread but who has very minmal oral skills, would be minmally orally skilled. I'd call a lipreader, a lipreader, since lipreading doesn't have anything to do with expressive language.


What do you call a deaf person raised in an oral environment who *didn't* have the option of choosing sign? Aren't they considered to be oral deaf as well?
Well if they chose to learn Sign, later, they would be orally skilled.

Tariq, I'm a little confused........why capitalize Oral Deaf for the ones who also use Sign? I know you're thinking capitalization equals cultural signifier,(eg big D vs small d) but it could be seen as signifying the actual cultral state....(like AG Bell types are Oral deaf,) but but I think I'd call those people orally skilled, but also Deaf. Maybe we need a new term for people who both Sign and speak.
 
DD,



What do you call a deaf person raised in an oral environment who *didn't* have the option of choosing sign? Aren't they considered to be oral deaf as well?


That is me. Guess I am oral deaf even though ASL is now my primary language and I am around it 24/7 with the exception of a few occassions! :giggle:
 
According to that website, braille are the raised dots, while Braille (capital B) is the system that is used for all types of braille, such as chemistry, music, language, etc.

The website makes the distinction between Braille and braille, but I've never heard of that before in the 36 years I've used Braille. Braille and braille are a system of raised dots read by the blind. Some other interesting facts about Braille: Braille used for mathmatics and science is called Nemeth. English Braille is not read worldwide by the blind. There is also Cantonese, Chinese, Japanese, Tibetan and Korean Braille. In Japanese Braille, alphabetic signs for a consonant and vowel are combined into a single syllabic block. In Korean Braille, consonants have different syllable-initial and syllable-final forms. These modifications made Braille much more compatible with Japanese kana and Korean hangul.
 
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Taric,

What is Visual Frame Sign Language? I've never heard of tactile sign language being abbreviated as TSL. Most deafblind people, sign language instructors and tactile terps I know refer to it as "tactile sign." Is TSL a common abbreviation for tactile sign? If so, I learned something new today. :)
 
An oral skilled person is someone who is understood by a Hearing layperson. If a Hearing layperson cannot understand a deaf person's speech, that deaf person is deaf, not oral deaf. If a deaf person's speech is not understood by a hearing layperson, and that deaf person uses ASL and is in Deaf culture, that person is Deaf, not oral deaf. If that deaf person's speech is understood by a Hearing layperson but does neither signs ASL nor is in Deaf culture, that person is oral deaf. If that deaf person's speech is understood by a Hearing layperson and signs ASL and is in Deaf culture, that person is Oral Deaf.

Is it also possible that a Deaf person who is in Deaf culture and whose speech is understood by a "hearing layperson" is also Deaf? I know a person who was born Deaf, uses ASL, lipreads and can also voice. Would she be considered Deaf and Oral Deaf?
 
Visual Frame Sign Language and Multiple Disabilities

What is Visual Frame Sign Language? I've never heard of tactile sign language being abbreviated as TSL.
Visual Frame Sign Language is Sign Language used within the Low-Vision person's visual frame. The interpreter wears a shirt to contrast the skin color and makes the signs smaller, to compensate for the vision of the Low-Vision person. I've seen TSL used on many intepreting service websites.
Is it also possible that a Deaf person who is in Deaf culture and whose speech is understood by a "hearing layperson" is also Deaf?
Yes, someone who is signs ASL and is in Deaf culture is Deaf. If that Deaf person is oral, then that Deaf person is also Oral Deaf.
I know a person who was born Deaf, uses ASL, lipreads and can also voice. Would she be considered Deaf and Oral Deaf?
She'd be orally skilled Deaf, or Deaf with oral skills.
Yes, I agree with deafdyke. If your deaf friend signs ASL and is in Deaf culture and has speech understood by a Hearing layperson, then your friend is Oral Deaf. You could also say "a person who is Deaf and does speak". When I picked up a pamplet on correct terms to use for people with disabilites, it showed that "deaf-mute" is incorrect, and you should say "a person who is deaf and does not speak" instead. The pamplet explicitly showed that you should indicate that the deaf person does not speak. They also showed other terms, for people with hearing, speech, visual, writing, mobile and other disabilities.
I agree with Tariq about the definition of oral deaf......someone who has the abilty to be somewhat understood by hearing people via voicing expressive spoken English.
I'd say that someone who can lipread but who has very minmal oral skills, would be minmally orally skilled. I'd call a lipreader, a lipreader, since lipreading doesn't have anything to do with expressive language.


Well if they chose to learn Sign, later, they would be orally skilled.

Tariq, I'm a little confused........why capitalize Oral Deaf for the ones who also use Sign? I know you're thinking capitalization equals cultural signifier,(eg big D vs small d) but it could be seen as signifying the actual cultral state....(like AG Bell types are Oral deaf,) but but I think I'd call those people orally skilled, but also Deaf. Maybe we need a new term for people who both Sign and speak.
You conclusion is interesting as signifying the actual cultural state, but I capitalize it for this reason. Do we say that a Hearing person who speaks is Oral Hearing? No, of course not. "Oral" specifies speech, while the "D" in "Deaf" specifies that a person signs ASL and is in Deaf culture.

In the case multiple disabilities for a Deaf person who speaks with an impediment, for example, if the Deaf person had a larynxectomy due to cancer of the throat or has cerebal palsy, I would say "a person who is Deaf-Speech-Disabled" or "a person who is Deaf and has a speech disability". If the person is Hard-of-Hearing, such as Kirk, who has cerebal palsy, I would say, "a person who is Hard-of-Hearing-Speech-Disabled" or "a person who is Hard-of-Hearing and has a speech disability." However, the use of the dash (-) must be used with carefully, as it cannot be used for a multiplicitive disability. For example, Low-Vision-Speech-Disabled is acceptable, because the person can still receive information by hearing and send information by writing, however, DeafBlind is prefered to Deaf-Blind, as the person can neither hear nor read to receive information. The person must rely on a third sense, such as touch or use residual senses.
 
Tariq, I like your usage of speech disabled. One thing I can't stand is the use of the term nonverbal. I always think of someone who's severely MR, when I see that term.
Speech disabled is a much better term.
 
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