What are your Pros or Cons on this?

[jillio]

My post concerned profoundly deaf children that cannot hear within the speech banana when amplified - meaning children that would sit in class not hearing a large portion of what is going on (like yourself).

Actually, I am surprised to hear what you went through. If I find that my son will not benefit from cochlear implants he will be enrolled in an aggressive ASL program immediately. I would never consider for a second having him go through his education not hearing 90% of what was going on. No offense to you or your parents.

My point remains that whether you choose to have your child implanted, or you choose not to, you are still making a choice for that child. Many opinions I have read insinuate that parents should allow the child to choose, and that's really not realistic as the choice to not develop their speech is made by not having the child implanted, and the choice to put a device in their head is made by having them implanted. It is impossible to know for sure what the child will want 15 years down the road.

My view is to allow the speech (and reading and all other learning) to be developed as much as possible, and if they later do not wish to use an implant they never have to wear it again.

I had never considered that some parents took a middle road for profoundly deaf kids who can't fully participate with hearing aids and did not decide to help the child develop sign language, and did not decide to have them implanted. I can't believe that happens.

Why not expose him to an ASL program prior to even deciding if the CI is going to work? You MUST remember, CI does not "cure" deafness. It simply gives you a child who is deaf with a CI. A CI is merely a more technologically advanced amplification devise, in the same way that a digital HA is more tecnologically advanced than analog. While you are waiting to find out if the CI works, you are creating an language deprived environment for the child. To mirror your question, "How fair is that?"

 

[jillio]

As everyone on this board probably already knows, I believe that a child needs to be involved in the desision to implant. That child is the one that lives with his deafness, and therefore should have majority input over the way in which he chooses to cope.

 

[shel90]

Please don't assume that. I specifically pointed out twice that my opinion is based upon profoundly deaf children that can't hear within the speech banana even when amplified. Further, I never mentioned anything about what type of families the child was in. Finally, I rendered no opinion at all on what others should do, I simply advanced my view which is based upon my family dynamics.

The mention of type of families was included in my question..no, u didnt mentioned it. It was my doing.

I'm unclear on how you concluded from my posts that I am advocating that all deaf and all hard of hearing children should be implanted. That's why I asked if I can safely assume that u believe in advocating in this belief. Then I was wrong but I am glad I asked rather than making a statement.

Further, I'm not singling you out intentionally, so I apologize if you feel that way. I was surprised to hear what you went through, that's all. I'm sorry that you had to struggle for a long time.

The reason I felt that wasy was u kept quoting me and answering to my quotes with your debate on letting the child choose CIs so that gave me the feeling u were using my comment about my decision not to implant my child to argue your point to others.

As long as children are being educated and cared for, I don't care one bit whether a parent puts their child on a path of using sign language or uses an implant. I would never tell someone they are wrong for not having their child implanted.

Ok thanks for clarifying..

 

[shel90]

Shel, there are different reasons to implant a child young, the first being to help develope spoken language skills. The other is to help parents not have to place their child into the deaf school because the only way to educate the child is in sign language. Parents have the right to make decision for their chilren, that includes implanting so they can raise their own children.

I know ..didnt I say that I am neutral about it and that it is a private and personal decision? So are u directing that to the other posts or to me?

What's wrong with educating the child in sign language? It is a fully accessible language. Oral language is not 100% accessible but I still would provide it to the child anyway. As for your comment about the deaf school educating the child in sign language only is not true. My school is a deaf school and we have incorporated both spoken and sign language into the curriculm to meet all visual and auditory needs. What's wrong with that?

I have a child with special needs, ideally if we had chosen to send her to the school she's in now (deaf academy) she may have become more advanced in her communication skills. Because of her mental delays it's took her about 3 yrs to actually begin signing consistantly. with signing she may have even picked up more academically.....BUT if all she had been exposed to was sign (and she did get some in her previous school) she because of her delays would probably not understand spoken english. IT's a double edged sword.

Where did I say that only sign language should be exposed? I have said in numerous posts that I believe in exposing all deaf/hoh children to both. I dont see the harm in it. Unless u were directing that to other ADers who have posted on here?


But keeping her home with her family was an important thing to do to. Why would parents choose to send their child to a dorm (remember not everyone can live within commuting distance of a school that uses ASl as a primary language) but why would they choose to give up their child without trying other possiblities first? The point is mute if you have easy access to your states schools for the deaf, if not the CI becomes even more important from the family aspect. (IMO of course )

If u live far, dont have to send the child to a dorm. I never advocated that all children should be sent to deaf schools only..just that they be exposed to both languages wherever their educational setting is.

I am not sure if u are directing your comments to me or just to the general forum but since u quoted my POV and replied with those comments, I felt that they were directed at me. If that's the case, then u totally misunderstood where I am coming from.

Again, I will make sure I make myself clear on where I stand.

I dont care what decision parents make about implanting their children. I believe it is a private and personal decision just as my decision not to implant my child is my business.

I strongly advocate in exposing the child, implanted or not, to BOTH languages..spoken and sign

My #1 concern is that all deaf/hoh children with no cognitive disabilities get full access to language from the minutue their hearing loss is diagnosed which is both to ensure that they have a strong language development and be ready to develop literacy skills at the appropriate age rather than at 10 years old or older.

I hope that was clear enough.

 

[DeafSCUBA98]

Leah Coleman (the girl from Signing Time) was born profoundly deaf to hearing parents. Her parents decided to learn ASL. I heard/read that Leah has wonderful reading ability. When Leah was seven years old, she was implanted. Three years later, Leah's speech is clear and very understandable (in my mildly hoh opinion). The family still signs to Leah, as is evident in this video.
Profiles in Caring :: Thanks for Watching and Thanks for Caring

i cannot know what they're talking about.. however i googled all over and can't find that leah coleman have CI?

 

[SJCSue]

i cannot know what they're talking about.. however i googled all over and can't find that leah coleman have CI?

Her mother has mentioned that Leah has an CI on the message boards at Sign language videos teaching children and baby American Sign Language - Signing Time In volume 12, Leah's hair was pulled back and her CI is visible during the restaurant sement.

 

[Drew's Dad]

You are making an assumption

Why not expose him to an ASL program prior to even deciding if the CI is going to work? You MUST remember, CI does not "cure" deafness. It simply gives you a child who is deaf with a CI. A CI is merely a more technologically advanced amplification devise, in the same way that a digital HA is more tecnologically advanced than analog. While you are waiting to find out if the CI works, you are creating an language deprived environment for the child. To mirror your question, "How fair is that?"

I haven't said whether I am exposing my son to ASL yet or not, so you may be assuming that we are not. My son is not yet 6 months old, but we have been signing simple signs to him.

On a technical note, I disagree with your analogy simply because a CI does not amplify sound at all. I do agree with you that he will always be deaf, and I appreciate that thought. Too many times have I read comments that he'll be a "vampire" or "cyborg" and neither deaf nor hearing.

I don't feel that I am depriving my son of language development at all. We are using signs to this point, and he'll likely get his implants within the next 4 months.

 

[Boult]

I haven't said whether I am exposing my son to ASL yet or not, so you may be assuming that we are not. My son is not yet 6 months old, but we have been signing simple signs to him.

On a technical note, I disagree with your analogy simply because a CI does not amplify sound at all. I do agree with you that he will always be deaf, and I appreciate that thought. Too many times have I read comments that he'll be a "vampire" or "cyborg" and neither deaf nor hearing.

I don't feel that I am depriving my son of language development at all. We are using signs to this point, and he'll likely get his implants within the next 4 months.

Drew's Dad is right. The difference between CI and HA is that Cochlear Implants DOES NOT amplify and Analog/Digital Hearing Aids DOES amplify.

Cochlear Implant bypass the need of Outer/Middle Ear system. Cochlear Implants deliver sound directly to auditory nerves connected to cochlea, also bypassing the damaged cilia inside the cochlea.

Hearing Aid send amplified sounds thru earmold into outer ear which make eardrum move wildly than normal causing the middle ear system to pump bigger than normal to oval window causing those damaged cilia to move somewhat.. thus making deaf hear some sound that are pretty outside the speech banana range. Those who wear HA are putting more stress on eardrum eh..

When I had HA, I only could hear in 50DBL range now with CI I hear in 20-30 range which is inside the speech banana.

 

[nirenameit]

Heres my opinion

I am mom to a 16 month old girl. we found out her choclear is messed up and she is canidate for CI, but we dont agree that she should be implanted until she is old enough to make the decision herself. Her being almost deaf is something she will have to live with the rest of her life and we want her to make her own decisions about it. of course other parents do get thier child implanted and thats fine, because thats thier opinion on it, and i dont disrespect what they decide to do, each parent does what they think is right for thier child, and there is no "right" answer, the only answer is what you think is best for your child. Right now she uses HA's and uses sign, she knows about 20 signs although she can only sign about 10 herself. She tries to talk and has speech therapy, but we dont care if she learns to talk, obviously we want to give her the chance to, which we are doing, but we think that if she wants to not use her HA's when she gets older it is ok. Or if she wants CI when she gets older, thats fine too. She is our precious baby, and it doesnt matter what her "problems" or "special needs" are, shes perfect in our eyes.

 

[shel90]

I am mom to a 16 month old girl. we found out her choclear is messed up and she is canidate for CI, but we dont agree that she should be implanted until she is old enough to make the decision herself. Her being almost deaf is something she will have to live with the rest of her life and we want her to make her own decisions about it. of course other parents do get thier child implanted and thats fine, because thats thier opinion on it, and i dont disrespect what they decide to do, each parent does what they think is right for thier child, and there is no "right" answer, the only answer is what you think is best for your child. Right now she uses HA's and uses sign, she knows about 20 signs although she can only sign about 10 herself. She tries to talk and has speech therapy, but we dont care if she learns to talk, obviously we want to give her the chance to, which we are doing, but we think that if she wants to not use her HA's when she gets older it is ok. Or if she wants CI when she gets older, thats fine too. She is our precious baby, and it doesnt matter what her "problems" or "special needs" are, shes perfect in our eyes.

Wow..she knows 10 signs? That's great! I have a 16 month old son and he knows about 8 now. He is hearing and he hasn't spoken a word yet. It seems like he prefers to express himself using sign language.

Anyways, that's so awesome about your views on your daughter. Too ofthen, many parents pressure their deaf or hoh children to perform at their expectation levels when it comes to speech and lipreading skills. Sometimes, that leads to extreme frustration btween the parents and the child. I have seen that happening with my students and their parents and then the students start to lose motivation for learning when they r around 9 or so cuz they feel like "failures". That's the last thing we want to happen cuz deaf children need to work harder to achieve the same skills as their hearing counterparts but without the motivation, it becomes even more difficult.

It seems like with your perspective and attitudes about your daughter's deafness will lead her to have a positive outlook on herself and learning.

 

[jillio]

I haven't said whether I am exposing my son to ASL yet or not, so you may be assuming that we are not. My son is not yet 6 months old, but we have been signing simple signs to him.

On a technical note, I disagree with your analogy simply because a CI does not amplify sound at all. I do agree with you that he will always be deaf, and I appreciate that thought. Too many times have I read comments that he'll be a "vampire" or "cyborg" and neither deaf nor hearing.

I don't feel that I am depriving my son of language development at all. We are using signs to this point, and he'll likely get his implants within the next 4 months.

Sorry about the misunderstanding. I was going on the following quote in your post: "If I find my son will not benefit from cochlear implants, he will be enrolled in an agressive ASL program immediately." I am glad to know that you have started to expose your son to sme simple signs, but encourage you to use those signs when conversing with the other members in your household, and not just when communicating with your son. In that way, he will be provided an environment in which he sees language being used as a communication tool in the same way that a hearing child is exposed to the oral communication of other family members. It allows him to learn through observation, and that is the most natural envirnonment for language acquisition.

Let me clarify: a CI is an assistive listening devise. HA is an assistive listening devise. Yes, there are some differences, but both merely assist. Idid not mean to imply that they are identitical, merely that they are both assistive. One more technologically advanced than the other, to be sure, but still only assistive.

 

[jillio]

I am mom to a 16 month old girl. we found out her choclear is messed up and she is canidate for CI, but we dont agree that she should be implanted until she is old enough to make the decision herself. Her being almost deaf is something she will have to live with the rest of her life and we want her to make her own decisions about it. of course other parents do get thier child implanted and thats fine, because thats thier opinion on it, and i dont disrespect what they decide to do, each parent does what they think is right for thier child, and there is no "right" answer, the only answer is what you think is best for your child. Right now she uses HA's and uses sign, she knows about 20 signs although she can only sign about 10 herself. She tries to talk and has speech therapy, but we dont care if she learns to talk, obviously we want to give her the chance to, which we are doing, but we think that if she wants to not use her HA's when she gets older it is ok. Or if she wants CI when she gets older, thats fine too. She is our precious baby, and it doesnt matter what her "problems" or "special needs" are, shes perfect in our eyes.

Cheers to you! Your attitude is wonderful, and your child will grow up happy and well adjusted as a result.

 

[Boult]

Sorry about the misunderstanding. I was going on the following quote in your post: "If I find my son will not benefit from cochlear implants, he will be enrolled in an agressive ASL program immediately." I am glad to know that you have started to expose your son to sme simple signs, but encourage you to use those signs when conversing with the other members in your household, and not just when communicating with your son. In that way, he will be provided an environment in which he sees language being used as a communication tool in the same way that a hearing child is exposed to the oral communication of other family members. It allows him to learn through observation, and that is the most natural envirnonment for language acquisition.

Let me clarify: a CI is an assistive listening devise. HA is an assistive listening devise. Yes, there are some differences, but both merely assist. Idid not mean to imply that they are identitical, merely that they are both assistive. One more technologically advanced than the other, to be sure, but still only assistive.

Your last part is wrong... Assistive listening device are not HA or CI
read up on this: assistivetech.net AT Report - Assistive Listening Devices

 

[Lillys dad]

Most here know my opinion. I feel alot like Drews dad. As a parent, we HAVE to make decision for our children. The decision to implant or not implant is the same. I chose to implant Lilly. When her other ear suffered a further hearing loss, where she no longer got any benifit from the HA, we had to decide if she should get a second CI. We decided to go for it (after some long soul searching and alot of research). We made the decision that Lilly will be oral. Bu, we also made the decsiion to learn and teach Lilly some sign. We also work on lip reading alot.
The decision to implant a child is a family decision. But, by waiting to implant, you are playing roulette with the chances of success of being oral. Are there stories of children past 3 years old, being successful.... of course. Are there adults being implanted that are successful. Sure. But, If your child does not benifit from HA due to a profound loss, and you wait until they get old enough to make the decision, you are pushing your childs luck. As I say constantly here, do your research.

On a related note, I went to a meeting today in which adults with a CI were on a panel. ALL of them agree that while they are cxompletely comfortable as a deaf person, they love having a CI. In fact, during this meeting, one of the panelists, said that if CI were available to children when he was younger, and his parents decided to not give him a CI, he would be very angry with them because that decision would have made his life much more fruistrating and harder than it had to be. He also mentioned that it is the responsibilty of the parents to make decidions for thier kids.

 

[deafdyke]

Boult, HA and CI aren't ALDs, but they DO assist listening/hearing!

LOL I still don't get how people with severe/profound losses can think they get great benefit from HA's.

jag, things are very indivdualistc..............I know someone with a moderate loss who doesn;t have any speech perception at all.........and then I know a lot of severe profounders who get a lot of benifit from HA.
I even know of someone with a loss who gets better benifit from an ITE aid, then from a BTE aid!

 

[jillio]

Boult, HA and CI aren't ALDs, but they DO assist listening/hearing!


jag, things are very indivdualistc..............I know someone with a moderate loss who doesn;t have any speech perception at all.........and then I know a lot of severe profounders who get a lot of benifit from HA.
I even know of someone with a loss who gets better benifit from an ITE aid, then from a BTE aid!

Thanks, dd. How much benefit one receives is dependent upon many, many variables.

 

[shel90]

Most here know my opinion. I feel alot like Drews dad. As a parent, we HAVE to make decision for our children. The decision to implant or not implant is the same. I chose to implant Lilly. When her other ear suffered a further hearing loss, where she no longer got any benifit from the HA, we had to decide if she should get a second CI. We decided to go for it (after some long soul searching and alot of research). We made the decision that Lilly will be oral. Bu, we also made the decsiion to learn and teach Lilly some sign. We also work on lip reading alot.
The decision to implant a child is a family decision. But, by waiting to implant, you are playing roulette with the chances of success of being oral. Are there stories of children past 3 years old, being successful.... of course. Are there adults being implanted that are successful. Sure. But, If your child does not benifit from HA due to a profound loss, and you wait until they get old enough to make the decision, you are pushing your childs luck. As I say constantly here, do your research.

On a related note, I went to a meeting today in which adults with a CI were on a panel. ALL of them agree that while they are cxompletely comfortable as a deaf person, they love having a CI. In fact, during this meeting, one of the panelists, said that if CI were available to children when he was younger, and his parents decided to not give him a CI, he would be very angry with them because that decision would have made his life much more fruistrating and harder than it had to be. He also mentioned that it is the responsibilty of the parents to make decidions for thier kids.[/QUOTE/]

Life doesn't have to be hard for deaf people without oral skills. It is hearing people who refuse accodomate for us. I am watching the PBS show "through Deaf Eyes""...people were happy as signers and I guess to this day people still don't really accept sign language as being the natural language for deaf people. Speech will always be more important. It is kinda sad...
Oh well..it is the "melting pot" syndrome.

In that show there were many beautiful stories told using ASL...just beautiful..will those CI children ever get to see how beautiful ASL is?

 

[Lillys dad]

"will those CI children ever get to see how beautiful ASL is?"

Shel, STOP making these statements! On this site alone, how many parents have told you repeatedly, that we are teaching our CI chilren sign? This statement is simply not accurate. And I find it biased. Sure, you can say, that the stament was not directed at me, or any other parent here that has a CI kid and teaches them sign. But you must clarify that. Dont keep making the assumption that CI kids do not know any sign, when you know it's wrong. I realize that you see all of the kids that are considered CI failures. But, how often do you have contact with children that are CI successes. With that being said, how many CI successes have you had contact with in which the kid knows some sign?
I know I've mentioned this to you before, but as a teacher in a deaf school, you do not have an overall view of kids with CI, it seems that you have limited access to the kids that are thriving with a CI.

 

[shel90]

"will those CI children ever get to see how beautiful ASL is?"

Shel, STOP making these statements! On this site alone, how many parents have told you repeatedly, that we are teaching our CI chilren sign? This statement is simply not accurate. And I find it biased. Sure, you can say, that the stament was not directed at me, or any other parent here that has a CI kid and teaches them sign. But you must clarify that. Dont keep making the assumption that CI kids do not know any sign, when you know it's wrong. I realize that you see all of the kids that are considered CI failures. But, how often do you have contact with children that are CI successes. With that being said, how many CI successes have you had contact with in which the kid knows some sign?
I know I've mentioned this to you before, but as a teacher in a deaf school, you do not have an overall view of kids with CI, it seems that you have limited access to the kids that are thriving with a CI.

Huh? Stop making statements? I was asking a question. I guess u r reading into too much what I have to say. I was just expressing my thoughts. Don't I have the right to express my thoughts and feelings? Iam feeling like this lately. Maybe iam wrong how I feel but it seems like lately I keep hearing about how speech precedes over language and knowledge and sometimes it really gets to me. Nobody has to follow what I have to say but I was just feeling down about how important speech really is to so many people and not much excitment about ASL. Guess I will shut up from now on.

 

[Lillys dad]

No.no.no, Dont shut up for now, or ever. I may have read into your statment too much, but it seemed that you were making a broad statment about kids with CI, and thier parents not teaching them sign. I get soo tired of peopl esaying that I am preventing my daughter from learning sign, or not exposing her to deaf culture and so on. By posting my last post, I was simply saying, dont paint us all with the same brush. The entire field of oral deaf ed has changed drastically in the last several years, and continues to change as we speak. I think one of the reasons these schools are changing, is because we parents are so involved with our childs education, progress, and expectations are increasing. This is not meant to say that parents in the past have not been involved. If it were not for those parents, I am certain that Lilly would not have the advantages she has now.