Was Bush Right? You DECIDE

[Jiro]

Obama Stays the Course on Bagram - No Habeas Rights For Obama Detainees - Bush Right Again?

The Justice Department today said it would adhere to the Bush administration's position that detainees imprisoned at a U.S. air base in Afghanistan have no right to challenge their confinement in U.S. courts.

Last month, U.S. District Judge John Bates gave the new administration an opportunity to refine its position in cases involving four detainees incarcerated at the Bagram prison, located on a converted Soviet base about 30 miles north of Kabul. They are seeking the same rights as prisoners held at the naval base in Guantánamo Bay, Cuba -- more than 200 of whom are challenging their detention in habeas proceedings in U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia.

Acting Assistant Attorney General Michael Hertz filed the government's response today. Here it is, in full:

"This Court’s Order of January 22, 2009 invited the Government to inform the Court by February 20, 2009, whether it intends to refine its position on whether the Court has jurisdiction over habeas petitions filed by detainees held at the United States military base in Bagram, Afghanistan. Having considered the matter, the Government adheres to its previously articulated position."

The approximately 650 prisoners in the hardscrabble Bagram prison are being held there indefinitely and without charge. The prison is closed to journalists and human rights activists, and while it has long been dubbed "the other Guantánamo," Bagram detainees lack the same privileges, such as regular access to lawyers. While the Guantánamo population has dwindled to about 245, Bagram has added more than 100 prisoners since 2005, according to the Defense Department.

President Obama has ordered a task force led by the attorney general and the defense secretary to review overall policy on detainees. A report is due in six months. A Justice Department spokesman declined to speculate on whether the government's position may change following the review.

The Bagram cases, which began filtering into the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia in 2007, built upon the arguments made by lawyers for Guantánamo detainees. The Supreme Court last summer ruled in Boumediene v. Bush that Guantánamo Bay detainees have a constitutional right to challenge their confinement under habeas corpus.

The Court deemed the Bush administration's system for determining whether to continue holding detainees -- akin to a parole board -- was an inadequate substitute for habeas relief. The Court also recognized that the United Stated exercised de facto sovereignty over the base, placing Guantánamo within its jurisdiction. The Court did not address Bagram, but said in some circumstances noncitizens being held in territories under U.S. control may have limited constitutional rights.

Bagram poses larger hurdles for the detainees' lawyers. The U.S. lease with Afghanistan for the Bagram lands is still in its infancy, compared with the century-long pact between Cuba and the United States governing Guantánamo. The Bush administration argued that the United States claims no similar sovereignty over Bagram, and it balked at the notion that habeas rights could be extended to detainees held "in a theatre of war where the United States is engaged in active hostilities," according to court papers filed in November.

Barbara Olshanksy, of the International Human Rights Clinic, who represents three Bagram detainees, said the prison is far less ephemeral than it's made out to be. In court papers filed last October, she pointed to plans for costly additions to the base, including a central command center and permanent barracks for army personnel. There are also plans for a $60 million expansion that would nearly double the prison's size.

Olshanksy wrote that the government is required to justify the detention of her clients, some of whom have been held for more than six years. She called Bagram a "modern-day Star Chamber" and wrote that it represents the government's attempt to "revive their effort to create a prison beyond judicial scrutiny" after Guantánamo failed.

 

[Tousi]

Let's give Leibling dibs on being the first to respond. Oh, wait, we know what the response will be.

 

[BradB08]

No, Bush is/was wrong.

These people are held without any access to an actual trial. That's like if the police were to arrest you and keep you jailed solely on suspicion of something without any hard evidence. They'd probably rely more on hearsay and the idea that you COULD commit a crime and not that you actually did.

Can someone tell me how this is morally right? I just don't see how it could be.

 

[Jiro]

No, Bush is/was wrong.

These people are held without any access to an actual trial. That's like if the police were to arrest you and keep you jailed solely on suspicion of something without any hard evidence. They'd probably rely more on hearsay and the idea that you COULD commit a crime and not that you actually did.

Can someone tell me how this is morally right? I just don't see how it could be.

understandable but difference is - you're using a criminal example. This is terrorist case - and that's a whole 'nother different ballgame. Beside - I mentioned many times that terrorist cases are tried at classified tribunal court. See my previous thread - there is a court at Gitmo Camp.

 

[BradB08]

No it's not.

Terrorism isn't even a real word for those actually keeping track.

It's just an excuse for the government to funnel more money into law enforcement and destroy the Constitution even further.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

 

[Jiro]

No it's not.

Terrorism isn't even a real word for those actually keeping track.

It's just an excuse for the government to funnel more money into law enforcement and destroy the Constitution even further.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

 

[Steel X]

Nope. Bush cant handle ANYTHING. :roll:

 

[Jiro]

Nope. Bush cant handle ANYTHING. :roll:

but.... Obama's sticking with Bush's national security policy. I guess Bush did it right.

 

[Mockingbird]

We can't say Obama's too much better either despite his endless heralding of change and a brighter future. Despite that Bush did a horrible job, he's not enough of a complete idiot to do/maintain something politically damaging without a good reason to him*.

The task force he's assembling may show that he's trying to decide whether the administration's choice was justified/needed, but I hope that this isn't some sort of political bluff that he's using to draw attention away from it.

 

[Jiro]

We can't say Obama's too much better either despite his endless heralding of change and a brighter future. Despite that Bush did a horrible job, he's not enough of a complete idiot to do/maintain something politically damaging without a good reason to him*.

The task force he's assembling may show that he's trying to decide whether the administration's choice was justified/needed, but I hope that this isn't some sort of political bluff that he's using to draw attention away from it.

right and the task force concluded that what Bush Administration did was as according to the laws.

 

[Babyblue]

but.... Obama's sticking with Bush's national security policy. I guess Bush did it right.

The shoe is starting to fit.

He now knows what the front line knows. Things that the public are not even aware of.

So he is not particularly following Bush's footsteps. He is basically seeing the reality of this whole thing and making these difficult decisions.

It is not easy being the President. << had to borrow your sunglasses Jiro.

 

[Secretblend]

The shoe is starting to fit.

He now knows what the front line knows. Things that the public are not even aware of.

So he is not particularly following Bush's footsteps. He is basically seeing the reality of this whole thing and making these difficult decisions.

It is not easy being the President. << had to borrow your sunglasses Jiro.

You got it! Every Presidents are just doing best they can with what they know. I'm sure if everybody was privy to info they have, everyone would slap their forehead and go, "Now I understand!"

 

[Babyblue]

You got it! Every Presidents are just doing best they can with what they know. I'm sure if everybody was privy to info they have, everyone would slap their forehead and go, "Now I understand!"

Or they would all go in to a panic mode!

 

[DURAY]

President Bush was right. Now President Obama realized his campaign rhetoric on Iraq and Afghanistan is now reality in real-life.

 

[Hear Again]

President Bush was right. Now President Obama realized his campaign rhetoric on Iraq and Afghanistan is now reality in real-life.

How are you able to draw that conclusion when Obama has only been in office for 1 month and a day?

Obama always indicated that there would be a slow withdrawal of troops in Iraq. Nothing has changed since the day he made that campaign promise.

 

[ncff07]

bush is right! bush is always right! all hail bush!

oh wait were talking about ex president george bush. think the best thing that happened during his term was that he got a couple shoes thrown at him!

 

[Hear Again]

bush is right! bush is always right! all hail bush!

oh wait were talking about ex president george bush. think the best thing that happened during his term was that he got a couple shoes thrown at him!

 

[chris' mom]

bush is right! bush is always right! all hail bush!

oh wait were talking about ex president george bush. think the best thing that happened during his term was that he got a couple shoes thrown at him!

=)) (yahoo version of rolling on the floor laughing, if it works) just in case it doesn't...:monkey:

 

[Steel X]

bush is right! bush is always right! all hail bush!

oh wait were talking about ex president george bush. think the best thing that happened during his term was that he got a couple shoes thrown at him!

I'm still mad that they were missed.

 

[DURAY]

Compare that to President Clinton raping and sexual assaulting women from the 1970s to the present....

bush is right! bush is always right! all hail bush!

oh wait were talking about ex president george bush. think the best thing that happened during his term was that he got a couple shoes thrown at him!