voters will blame GOP if default

[deafskeptic]

You said you didn't see any "terrorist activity" on the part of republicans or conservatives. You are referring to a very literal interpretation of terrorism involving killing and maiming. I am referring to terrorism in a more figurative way, but in both instances, the underlying intent and execution are EXACTLY THE SAME.

I'm not trolling at all. I have never been this more pissed off about politics in this country. Usually I just holler a bit, shrug my shoulders, and move on-- because it's business as usual. I dislike just about all politicians, not just those here in Washington, but everywhere. But what just occurred in the past week was a new low for American politics, and definitely a new low for republicans, just when I thought they couldn't go any lower. What we witnessed was a wholesale hijacking of American values.

Two hundred and fifty years ago, George Washington initiated the legislative body as a system of compromises and working together. There have been many spats and feuds since that time, but I can never recall ever witnessing or reading about a time that one party threatened to sabotage the entire country if they did not get what they wanted. That is worse than being un-American. That is treason.

I am very angry about the whole mess. I kept thinking they have to go. I do not think we're alone in this.

 

[darkdog]

Because those bills put forth were completely lopsided and unrealistic. Because democrats had already compromised more than the Tea Party deserved. When you control one part of a three-part legislative system, you don't exactly have huge bargaining power. Why is this so hard for you to understand?

So it's OK to risk destroying the economy if you feel the bill is lobsided. Otherwise, you're a terrorist. Okey dokey... But was it really so lobsided? The cut, cap, and balance bill had 2/3 support according to a CNN poll:

Republicans like the "cut, cap, and balance" approach to the debt ceiling, as do Democrats and independents. Most Americans support a balanced budget amendment, and most, but not as many, think an amendment is necessary to get federal spending under control. A balanced budget amendment passed the House earlier this week, but a vote in the Senate is expected to fail.

CNN Poll: Strong partisan divide on debt ceiling – CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs

Let's not forget who initiated this crisis. Raising the debt ceiling is a formality. It is never challenged or thwarted because doing so has catastrophic implications. Don't even try to spin this around on democrats. That's the dirty little trick going around in the conservative camp now, eh? Create a colossal mess, then try and pass it off as the other guy's fault? First Bush and his 8 year disaster, now this? The American public is on to this. You guys won't stand a chance in the next election if you keep this up.

It hasn't been thwarted yet, but it has been challenged. Famous examples include, well, the entire Democrat caucus in the Senate in 2006, including Harry Reid and Barack Obama, both of whom spoke out against it: U.S. Senate: Legislation & Records Home > Votes > Roll Call Vote

I guess you could say they knew it would pass (although 52 votes is pretty close) and they were just being shameless politicians, but with this latest bill, it was a nail biter, and half the Democrats in the House voted against it because they didn't like what was in it. If the vote had gone their way, the debt ceiling would not have passed on time and we would be living the consequences. It's okay, you know, to admit when your party did something wrong.

By the way, I was pretty upset with the Republicans who rejected Boehner's first bill last Thursday. That one was likely to pass the Senate and I thought they were, well, stupid to block it. But terrorists? No. Same goes for the Democrats who opposed this. Irresponsible? Yes. Terrorists? No.

 

[TWA]

So it's OK to risk destroying the economy if you feel the bill is lobsided. Otherwise, you're a terrorist. Okey dokey... But was it really so lobsided? The cut, cap, and balance bill had 2/3 support according to a CNN poll:


CNN Poll: Strong partisan divide on debt ceiling – CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs


It hasn't been thwarted yet, but it has been challenged. Famous examples include, well, the entire Democrat caucus in the Senate in 2006, including Harry Reid and Barack Obama, both of whom spoke out against it: U.S. Senate: Legislation & Records Home > Votes > Roll Call Vote

I guess you could say they knew it would pass (although 52 votes is pretty close) and they were just being shameless politicians, but with this latest bill, it was a nail biter, and half the Democrats in the House voted against it because they didn't like what was in it. If the vote had gone their way, the debt ceiling would not have passed on time and we would be living the consequences. It's okay, you know, to admit when your party did something wrong.

By the way, I was pretty upset with the Republicans who rejected Boehner's first bill last Thursday. That one was likely to pass the Senate and I thought they were, well, stupid to block it. But terrorists? No. Same goes for the Democrats who opposed this. Irresponsible? Yes. Terrorists? No.

So the democrats should have just rolled over and taken everything the Tea Party terrorists demanded in order to save the country? That's your argument? Really? You're basically admitting that yes, the Tea Party was trying to destroy the country, but if the democrats, who had already made many concessions while the republicans had made absolutely NONE, didn't give in to all demands, then it would be their fault for a default on our debt? Wow.

What bothers me more is that I still see no refutation whatsoever from either you or Reba about the tactics that the republicans used. You both seem to be aware of what really went on, yet you wont' acknowledge it and instead dance around it.

So, let's just forget about the democrats for a second. I'll put this in a simple yes or no question for you without charged language:

Do you or do you not think the tactic that the republicans used to pass this bill was acceptable?

 

[deafskeptic]

So the democrats should have just rolled over and taken everything the Tea Party terrorists demanded in order to save the country? That's your argument? Really? You're basically admitting that yes, the Tea Party was trying to destroy the country, but if the democrats, who had already made many concessions while the republicans had made absolutely NONE, didn't give in to all demands, then it would be their fault for a default on our debt? Wow.

What bothers me more is that I still see no refutation whatsoever from either you or Reba about the tactics that the republicans used. You both seem to be aware of what really went on, yet you wont' acknowledge it and instead dance around it.

So, let's just forget about the democrats for a second. I'll put this in a simple yes or no question for you without charged language:

Do you or do you not think the tactic that the republicans used to pass this bill was acceptable?

Doesn't matter which party it was. It was totally unacceptable. of course, the holy Republican party cna do no wrong. :P

 

[Banjo]

GOP freshman to Biden:

Joe Walsh is a moron. His condo went into foreclosure, and not to mention that he is basically a deadbeat father for not paying his child support. He should let someone else speak for the party.

 

[Foxrac]

GOP freshman to Biden:

Joe Walsh is a moron. His condo went into foreclosure, and not to mention that he is basically a deadbeat father for not paying his child support. He should let someone else speak for the party.

What's red alert for Joe Walsh!

Republican Party is nothing of party and they are not true conservative anymore.

 

[TWA]

GOP freshman to Biden:

Joe Walsh is a moron. His condo went into foreclosure, and not to mention that he is basically a deadbeat father for not paying his child support. He should let someone else speak for the party.

One and done tea moron, just like most of them. Republicans are going to get hammered in 2012, and it's because of fools like this guy.

Don't believe me? Keep your eyes on the Wisconsin recall next week. I have a pretty good feeling you're going to see 6 tea morons out of a job by the end of August.

 

[deafskeptic]

One and done tea moron, just like most of them. Republicans are going to get hammered in 2012, and it's because of fools like this guy.

Don't believe me? Keep your eyes on the Wisconsin recall next week. I have a pretty good feeling you're going to see 6 tea morons out of a job by the end of August.

I don't think Americans are going to forget this time.

 

[Secretblend]

I don't think Americans are going to forget this time.

Yea they will.

 

[Reba]

So the democrats should have just rolled over and taken everything the Tea Party terrorists demanded in order to save the country?

I thought you said that what the Tea Party demanded would destroy, not save the country?

What bothers me more is that I still see no refutation whatsoever from either you or Reba about the tactics that the republicans used. You both seem to be aware of what really went on, yet you wont' acknowledge it and instead dance around it.

I did refute it. You just want to argue back and forth. I guess it helps you feel better to vent the steam.

Do you or do you not think the tactic that the republicans used to pass this bill was acceptable?

Man, you sound like Joe McCarthy with your badgering!

I'm not sure what you call "the tactic." I didn't see anything they did as being terrorism.

I go with Rep. Tim Scott's statement:

"The debate surrounding the debt ceiling is proof we have taken huge steps towards changing the culture in Washington. Speaker Boehner and the Republican leadership team have done a great job of expressing the conservative position and showing the American people we are serious about tightening our belt.

However, this compromise did not take enough steps towards ensuring a stable economic future in order to earn my vote. The short-term spending reductions in the bill were insufficient, I believe the Balanced Budget Amendment should be mandated, and I have concerns with lingering questions regarding defense cuts.

Despite my decision on this particular vote, I am pleased with the direction we are moving the debate, and want to thank the American people for supporting the principles of Cut, Cap, and Balance. I will continue the fight to reign in spending, reform our tax code, and get the government out of the way of our job creators."

 

[netrox]

Despite my decision on this particular vote, I am pleased with the direction we are moving the debate, and want to thank the American people for supporting the principles of Cut, Cap, and Balance. I will continue the fight to reign in spending, reform our tax code, and get the government out of the way of our job creators."

Cut, Cap, and Balance is unrealistic and bad for economy.

 

[deafskeptic]

Yea they will.

Perhaps but I don't think it's likely for the retirees to forget this.

 

[TWA]

From now on, I will be referring to the Tea Party as the Terror Party.

 

[TWA]

But don't take my word for it. This is how they see themselves:

“I think some of our members may have thought the default issue was a hostage you might take a chance at shooting,” he said. “Most of us didn’t think that. What we did learn is this — it’s a hostage that’s worth ransoming. And it focuses the Congress on something that must be done.”

- Mitch McConnell, Senate Minority Leader, political terrorist.


Political Animal - Mitch McConnell, hostage taker

 

[Banjo]

“I think some of our members may have thought the default issue was a hostage you might take a chance at shooting,” he said. “Most of us didn’t think that. What we did learn is this — it’s a hostage that’s worth ransoming. And it focuses the Congress on something that must be done.”

So he is one of the "some people" then.

 

[TWA]

So he is one of the "some people" then.

Yes, and this quote explicitly shows the mentality behind their tactics and action.

 

[darkdog]

So the democrats should have just rolled over and taken everything the Tea Party terrorists demanded in order to save the country? That's your argument? Really? You're basically admitting that yes, the Tea Party was trying to destroy the country, but if the democrats, who had already made many concessions while the republicans had made absolutely NONE, didn't give in to all demands, then it would be their fault for a default on our debt? Wow.

What bothers me more is that I still see no refutation whatsoever from either you or Reba about the tactics that the republicans used. You both seem to be aware of what really went on, yet you wont' acknowledge it and instead dance around it.

So, let's just forget about the democrats for a second. I'll put this in a simple yes or no question for you without charged language:

Do you or do you not think the tactic that the republicans used to pass this bill was acceptable?

Did you not even read what I said? Reading your response, one would have no idea I said this:

By the way, I was pretty upset with the Republicans who rejected Boehner's first bill last Thursday. That one was likely to pass the Senate and I thought they were, well, stupid to block it.

That partially answers your question, so let me give you a more complete answer. I find the stubbornness of some of the Tea Party members of Congress unacceptable. I think they were trying to solve the whole debt problem in one fell swoop and it just wasn't in the cards. I think they should have voted for the bill last Thursday and to say I was upset with them a week ago is an understatement.

I don't think they were trying to actively trying to destroy the country. For one, the threat of immediate default was probably exaggerated and the threat of social security checks not going out was almost certainly exaggerated. I think it would have greatly disrupted the financial markets and caused a lot of disruption in the government and they were burying their heads in the sand about that. If the debt ceiling was not raised, they would have experienced tremendous pressure in the coming weeks to raise it and most of them probably would have folded under that pressure. Wrong about the consequences of not raising the debt-ceiling? Yes. Terrorists? No.

But not every Tea Party member of Congress was stubborn about raising the debt ceiling. Tea Party rock stars like Alan West, Sean Duffy, and Paul Ryan (who's not really considered a Tea Party member, but he has fiscal cred among the Tea Party) supported last Thursday's bill and tried to convince the hold-outs that they had to raise the debt ceiling. So, if we consider the hold-outs terrorists, what would that make these guys... heroes?

I do think it's fine that both sides negotiated for what they wanted. I don't approve of the rigidity displayed by some on both sides. Speaking of which, let's now let's focus on the Democrat party. You asked why such a small minority should get such power. I guess the answer is they voted the same way as the Democrat party. So are you fine with the Democrats who refused to increase the debt-ceiling at the 11th hour when it really mattered all because they didn't like the exceedingly mild spending cuts and they didn't get the tax hikes they wanted? If this was a game of chicken, they refused to turn the wheel, too. If we're now defining terrorist as anyone who opposes increasing the debt ceiling because they can't get what they want, why don't you go after those guys too? Why should it matter if a bill was lobsided (which is debatable, as it was a pared down version of an earlier bill with broad popular support)? What bothers me more is that I still see no refutation whatsoever from you about the tactics the Democrats used.

I should probably just be content to sit back and watch the incoherent hate come from the side who shamelessly lectured people like me about "civility" just six months ago. After all, if I can't stop a train wreck, I might as well grab and chair and some popcorn, so I think I'll do that now.

 

[Beowulf]

Ron Paul.


'Nuff said.

 

[jillio]

Perhaps but I don't think it's likely for the retirees to forget this.

Oh, its not just the retirees that will remember.

 

[netrox]

another poll blaming GOP for Congress games:

"A record 82 percent of Americans now disapprove of the way Congress is handling its job — the most since The Times first began asking the question in 1977, and even more than after another political stalemate led to a shutdown of the federal government in 1995. More than four out of five people surveyed said that the recent debt ceiling debate was more about gaining political advantage than about doing what is best for the country. Nearly three-quarters said that the debate had harmed the image of the United States in the world.

Republicans in Congress shoulder more of the blame for the difficulties in reaching a debt ceiling agreement than President Obama and the Democrats, the poll found.

The Republicans compromised too little, a majority of those polled said. All told, 72 percent disapproved of the way Republicans in Congress handled the negotiations, while 66 percent disapproved of the way Democrats in Congress handled negotiations. The public was more evenly divided about how President Obama handled the debt ceiling negotiations: 47 percent disapproved and 46 percent approved.

The public’s opinion of the Tea Party movement has soured in the wake of the debt ceiling debate. The Tea Party is now viewed unfavorably by 40 percent of the public and favorably by just 20 percent, according to the poll. "

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/05/us/politics/05poll.html?_r=1