Vote for President of U.S.

[bree]

Its interesting to note that you ignored the comparison towards islamic fundamentalism. If you cannot defend that, you cannot defend christian morality being legislated, either. If you cannot support the morality of another religion being enforced in another part of the world, christianity ALSO must have no place in determining secular laws in america. (Thats morality, not christians... difference)

To clarify, the catholic church is often called 'The Church' among catholics, and THAT denomination had a policy of staying out of national politics, dictated from the vatican.

The 'golden rule' is part of the belief system of EVERY major religion. 'do unto others' is in the bible, if you didn't know.
(Matthew 7:12 if you want to look it up.)

My point, which you ignored, is that abortion is one aspect, one thing.

Arguing the 'hot button' of abortion ignores the overall need of society. Societies needs are larger than one issue, and the golden rule applies to the overall picture.

How do we as a society help the poor?
How do we support the elderly? children? the sick? How do we steward the environment? how do we protect human rights?

Going back on topic of Bush versus Kerry, which one puts this faith into acts, and tries steer society according to the golden rule?

 

[Reba]

Its interesting to note that you ignored the comparison towards islamic fundamentalism.

Sorry, I don't have time to answer every point of every posting. In fact, I have been chastised by moderators for doing too much of that, so I have been trying to cut back. I have also been warned to avoid "judging" others' religions, so I in order to not get "locked out" or hurt feelings, I have been refraining on some topics.

Many americans are opposed to islamic fundamentalism in the middle east, where many countries have religious rules telling you what you can do, and this is legislated through the government. Would you want to live there?

No. I am a Christian and I would not be allowed to practice my religion in those countries.

Would you want America to pass similar laws?

No. The United States allows people to worship within their religions. Our government does not require church membership for people to participate in government (such as was required in England, which required membership in the Church of England). Our government cannot tell us where and when to go to worship services, how to pray, or which church/synagogue/temple/mosque to join.

If you cannot support the morality of another religion being enforced in another part of the world, christianity ALSO must have no place in determining secular laws in america.

I live and vote in America, so that is the only country I can influence with my decisions, and the only country under whose laws I live. I have the right to speak up about my country's laws.

To clarify, the catholic church is often called 'The Church' among catholics, and THAT denomination had a policy of staying out of national politics, dictated from the vatican.

As I recall, there were many social activist Catholic priests during the 60's out on the streets protesting the Vietnam war, and promoting protest in the Catholic universities. Many Catholics support pro-life legislation. Every time there is an execution, Catholic priests and nuns are part of the protesting crowd. Aren't these national political events? Hasn't the Pope given his statement about America's war on terrorism?

The 'golden rule' is part of the belief system of EVERY major religion. 'do unto others' is in the bible, if you didn't know.
(Matthew 7:12 if you want to look it up.)

"Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets."
As you know, the word "therefore" at the beginning of the verse refers back to the context of the previous verses. It refers to the verses that tell the believer to seek the Lord thru prayer to give discernment as to how to recognize the "dogs...swine" (verse 6). If we pray, that is if we "ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you..." (verses 7,8), then God will give us the wisdom to know how to deal with each person. Verses 9-11 show how much God wants to give us the help we need. Verse 12 then continues, to the point that, after discerning that the person sincerely wants to hear the Gospel, then the believer should preach it. In other words, I should give them the Gospel because I would want them to give me the Gospel if I were in the same situation. The verses that follow (13, 14) continue with the picture of choice; the broad way into hell, or the narrow way into heaven.
The "golden rule" verse is not a feel good verse about treating other people the way you want to be treated. As humans, sometimes we are not even good judges of how we ourselves should be treated; some people are actually self-destructive, and I certainly wouldn't want them making decisions on how they treat other people based on what treatment they want to get.
Sorry this is so long. I tried to give the Readers Digest version.

My point, which you ignored, is that abortion is one aspect, one thing.

OK. How many aspects do you need for a complete answer? It might be just one aspect but it is a very important basic one. If one cannot even defend the most innocent of life, how can one be trusted with the other aspects of life?

Arguing the 'hot button' of abortion ignores the overall need of society.

What is the "overall need of society" to you? I believe the overall need of society (meaning people) is for each individual to voluntarily accept Jesus Christ as Savior. After that, all else falls into place.

How do we as a society help the poor?
How do we support the elderly? children? the sick? How do we steward the environment? how do we protect human rights?

Are you asking me rhetorical questions, or do you want specific answers to each one?

Going back on topic of Bush versus Kerry, which one puts this faith into acts...

Bush.

... and tries steer society according to the golden rule?

Neither one.

 

[Beowulf]

Bush puts his faith into acts?
*snicker*

http://bushfraud.blogspot.com/

 

[bree]

Interesting...

No. I am a Christian and I would not be allowed to practice my religion in those countries.

No. The United States allows people to worship within their religions. Our government does not require church membership for people to participate in government (such as was required in England, which required membership in the Church of England). Our government cannot tell us where and when to go to worship services, how to pray, or which church/synagogue/temple/mosque to join.

snippy..

What is the "overall need of society" to you? I believe the overall need of society (meaning people) is for each individual to voluntarily accept Jesus Christ as Savior. After that, all else falls into place.

You praise freedom to worship on one hand, then show the very reason why that is there on the other. While everyone converting to christianity might be a laudable goal, this viewpoint usually leads to religious intolerance. 'Society should be christian', also means rejecting other faiths, and far too many people take it as a free pass towards oppressing others who do not share their faith. The fact is that religion has caused the deaths of hundreds of millions of people throughout history, many of them by governments. (witch-hunts, inquisition, pogroms, holocaust, religious wars, etc) I am a person of irish descendent, and throughly know how much suffering has been caused by religious prosecution in that country.
Removal of religion from the political sphere is to PROTECT society.

Let me try and go back on topic here...

My previous questions about helping others and society were not rhetorical at all. I strongly feel that bush had an opportunity to help others, but rejected it in favor of ideology.

He passed tax cuts mainly for the rich, and just passed a corporate tax bill to the tune of hundreds of billions of dollars.

In the meanwhile, 3.5 million americans are homeless, 1.3 of them children. 40% of requests for shelter are denied because there is no room.

About one million americans lost their jobs in the past four years, the first time since the Great Depression. Almost 9 million are unemployed according to the Dept. of Labor (note that this is massively underestimated for various reasons.)
36 million americans are under the 'poverty rate', 15 million of them are children. This is up roughly 6 million since 2000.

Who lives or dies due to illness in america can often be summed up in a simple question... do they have health insurance? 40 million americans don't, up five million in the last four years. Costs have gone up almost 40% in the meanwhile.

About 40,000 americans die every year from the flu, over ten times as many as died in the WTC. And the flu is the cause of the most deadly pandemic in all history. Yet we have a vaccine shortage. Bush claims this is because of lawsuits against companies. So why didn't he do anything last year, when the only doctor in congress warned of flu shortages? (fyi, this is from dec 2003, and his bill attempting to resolve the issue was stalled in congress by republicans) Oh, there also ALREADY is an existing law protecting companies from liabilities for vaccines. Congress passed an extension adding flu to the list, but Bush has NOT signed it.

In the last four years, vaccine shortages have been the norm. Besides the flu there have been shortage of vaccines for tetanus, diphtheria, whooping cough, measles, mumps and chicken pox. Thats 8 of the 11 most common childhood diseases.

The homeless, the poor, the sick, children.. all have suffered under Bush's watch.
I asked about which person puts faith into acts.. Bush or Kerry..

Bush.

Where have you been?

 

[Reba]

You praise freedom to worship on one hand, then show the very reason why that is there on the other. While everyone converting to christianity might be a laudable goal, this viewpoint usually leads to religious intolerance. 'Society should be christian', also means rejecting other faiths, and far too many people take it as a free pass towards oppressing others who do not share their faith.

I said voluntarily accept Jesus as Savior. No force. No one can be forced to become saved. It must be done willingly, from the heart.

The fact is that religion has caused the deaths of hundreds of millions of people throughout history, many of them by governments. (witch-hunts, inquisition, pogroms, holocaust, religious wars, etc) I am a person of irish descendent, and throughly know how much suffering has been caused by religious prosecution in that country.
Removal of religion from the political sphere is to PROTECT society.

Accepting Jesus Christ as Savior is a personal relationship with God. It is not a religion, not a denomination, not a church membership, not an ethnic group.

The homeless, the poor, the sick, children.. all have suffered under Bush's watch.

I don't agree with your assessment but am curious as to your solution. Since a Democrat President didn't solve the country's ills during his eight-year opportunity, please explain to me how John Kerry can do better.

I asked about which person puts faith into acts.. Bush or Kerry..

You asked, and I already answered before.

 

[bree]

I don't agree with your assessment but am curious as to your solution. Since a Democrat President didn't solve the country's ills during his eight-year opportunity, please explain to me how John Kerry can do better.

If you disagree with the facts that I previously provided from government statistics, please provide alternate information. I would love to discuss it.
But these are facts, not assessments..
Tax breaks for the rich while millions more are homeless, are poor, are jobless, without vaccines, and without healthcare than four years ago. Multiple corporate scandals, and then billions in tax breaks for corporations.
Is this caring for America?

Its not about Kerry doing better than Clinton. (Although Clinton DID preside over the largest economic expansion in recent history.) Its not about Democrats or Republicans. Its about one simple question. Quoting Ronald Reagan "Are you better off than four years ago?"
The president is the nation's employee. If an employee screws up, he's fired. If the country has gotten worse in the last four years, I can and will fire the President.

 

[Reba]

Kerry goes to Church very often.

Kerry goes to church to worship or campaign?

On Sunday, Kerry said at an African American Baptist church in Ohio that he had put together a "voter protection dream team" of top lawyers to forestall vote fraud and disenfranchisement.
AFP , WASHINGTON
Tuesday, Oct 19, 2004,Page 1

Kerry gave a more partisan speech earlier Sunday at the nearby Mount Hermon African Methodist Episcopal Church where he painted the election as a choice between a man of the people or one of the powerful.
http://newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/10/24/181155.shtml

Church appearances and reaching out to black clergy "is a sure-hand way of getting to a lot of folks who vote," Walters said. "For (Kerry) to focus on it is essential."
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,136005,00.html

Earlier, Kerry spoke at a predominantly black church for the fourth consecutive Sunday, this one in Fort Lauderdale in heavily Democratic Broward County, and promised worshippers their votes would be counted this time. The county saw some of the worst of Florida's 2000 vote-counting abuses. "I want you to turn out," the Democrat said.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,136438,00.html

Kerry attends Mass – in a ski suit
Candidate reportedly arrives late, staff says, 'It was just a media-op'
Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry made a stop at a Catholic church during his Idaho vacation Sunday to attend Mass, loudly arriving 11 minutes late and wearing a ski suit.
According to a report in the American Spectator, a senior staff member in the Kerry Campaign said, "It was just a media-op. We set it up with some reporters that we knew were going to be there."
"That Sen. John Kerry is willing to use the holy sacrifice of the Mass as a 'media op' shows his utter contempt for the faith he claims to embrace," Starrs said in a statement. "This is disgusting. The senator and his staff should publicly apologize to Our Lady of the Snows parish, its pastor and congregation, and to all faithful Catholics for this charade.
Posted: March 24, 2004
5:00 p.m. Eastern
© 2004 WorldNetDaily.com

 

[bree]

Kerry goes to church to worship or campaign?

back to a topic from two pages ago, while ignoring statistics provided about how america has gotten worse.
Recent news reveals the fact that the bush administration has covered up for over a year the loss of over 760,000 pounds of plastic explosives in Iraq. One pound of this was enough to take down a plane in lockerbie, scotland. Enough was lost to bomb every airplane in the world, re-enact the first WTC bombing again, and still have plenty left over to car bomb soldiers in Iraq.
picking nits over church going pales before this utter disaster for the nation. These materials, which we KNEW about and igored, are likely the ones killing our soldiers right now.

*shrug*
If you want to know about Kerry's 'spiritual biography', you can check out Belief.net
to highlight something..

According to those who know him, Kerry is a religious man. On the campaign trail, he is said to carry a rosary, a prayer book, and a St. Christopher medal (the patron saint of travelers). He attends Mass regularly--complaining when his campaign staff doesn't leave time in his schedule for it.

He complains about not being about to go to church.
In contrast to bush's church non-attendance, which you dismissed.

But your reasons were answered before they even arrived. I gave a link that discussed Bushes church attendance.
Too busy? Carter went to church every sunday, and taught sunday school.
Security? oops.. Clinton also went to church, with minor security disruptions.
in fact...

"I really don't get it," one prominent Bush partisan told me. "There's no reason why the president couldn't find a church around here if he wanted to."

I am greatly concerned over those who choose to pick Bush because of his 'religion', while ignoring his actions reflecting his religion. Sojourners magazine has an interesting flyer regarding this.

 

[JeepGirl]

I'd vote for Kerry! Bush thinks of himself and money! He wants to cut down on retirement plans, social security, raise more taxes, etc.. He also keep sending our troops to Iraq, why??? because he wants OIL, that is what I think. (just my guess) I just don't agree with all the war going on! Ya know when the war is over, Bush is going to use all of our money to build back where it was in Iraq.. Why can't he really focus on his American people? We are low on economies, people getting laid off, budgets are tight and so on.. don't get me wrong, I like Bush but I rather vote for Kerry. I'd be gulped if Kerry didn't do a good job.. so hopefully Kerry will!

Correct me if I'm wrong!

 

[TweetyBird]

I'd vote for Kerry! Bush thinks of himself and money! He wants to cut down on retirement plans, social security, raise more taxes, etc.. He also keep sending our troops to Iraq, why??? because he wants OIL, that is what I think. (just my guess) I just don't agree with all the war going on! Ya know when the war is over, Bush is going to use all of our money to build back where it was in Iraq.. Why can't he really focus on his American people? We are low on economies, people getting laid off, budgets are tight and so on.. don't get me wrong, I like Bush but I rather vote for Kerry. I'd be gulped if Kerry didn't do a good job.. so hopefully Kerry will!

Correct me if I'm wrong!

heyy ang!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! yea i agree with u!!!! i really enjoyed last sat night and sunday morning!!! hehe.. sowwy, back to subject, anyway, yea i vote kerry... my point is old ppl cant work and how they can afford living??? i mean pay rent and bills so use ssi, ssa ssd and retired checks u know what i mean???

 

[Cheri]

It is going to be one close vote this year.. Bush has one point of a higher vote than Kerry, So come on people place ur vote on election day "Vote for Kerry!" You could make a differences.

 

[SNOWJACKASS]

i dont vote for both of them..... they are not good>>

 

[Beowulf]

Bumping this up.
Thought it would be interesting to compare the poll results here with the actual votes.

 

[TweetyBird]

i already vote today!!!! *whew*

 

[Beowulf]

for Tweety

 

[DVDFreaker]

It is going to be one close vote this year.. Bush has one point of a higher vote than Kerry, So come on people place ur vote on election day "Vote for Kerry!" You could make a differences.

It doesn't look close to me, Bush is leading 156-112 so far but Kerry can come back and win it at the end though. GO BUSH, KICK KERRY'S ASS!

 

[FutureGame2100]

I'm voting it for Kerry!