UN Official Wants to Prosecute Bush, Rumsfeld for Torture

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Hear Again said:
really? how long has this been going on, reba?
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How long what? Do you mean special forces type training in general, or waterboarding specifically?
 
Reba said:
According to the UN, this is their definition of torture:

"For the purposes of this Convention, torture means any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person information or a confession, punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed, or intimidating or coercing him or a third person, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind, when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity. It does not include pain or suffering arising only from, inherent in or incidental to lawful sanctions."
UN Convention Against Torture
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So therefore waterboarding falls under this....
 
Reba said:
How long what? Do you mean special forces type training in general, or waterboarding specifically?
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i'm sorry, reba. i mean both. how long has waterboarding and special forces type training been going on?
 
Byrdie714 said:
So therefore waterboarding falls under this....
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I'm not a lawyer; I don't even play one on TV, so I can't answer that.

I would like a clear explanation for this last line, "It does not include pain or suffering arising only from, inherent in or incidental to lawful sanctions." I wonder how far that can be stretched. :dunno:

However, the other questions are, authority to prosecute sovereign nations, and then, jurisdiction. :dunno:
 
Hear Again said:
i'm sorry, reba. i mean both. how long has waterboarding and special forces type training been going on?
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yes they do go thru waterboarding as part of their training to overcome fear of water and water gag reflex because the part of job is swimming. people will panic when drowning. when one person in a group is drowning, he will grab other person and push him down to stay afloat. It happened to me.

virtually everybody has some fear of water and this training is designed to overcome it. my friend has done it.
 
I thought you, germany woman, don't believe in the kind punishment. Huh?
 
Hear Again said:
i'm sorry, reba. i mean both. how long has waterboarding and special forces type training been going on?
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Types of waterboarding have been around since the Middle Ages.

Formal US special forces training started during WWII.
 
Jolie77 said:
Can someone explain what does waterboarding does? What's the purpose of waterboarding?

I think I have a pretty good idea what waterboarding is but I also wanted to see the bigger picture of this in order to get an understanding of this.

From what I see - It's like when someone pours the water on the victim's face to do a drowning effect? Is that correct?
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shel90 said:
But what's the purpose of using that technique on the prisoners? To make them suffer or to get info from them?
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simple - to get the vital information that is the matter of life and death. imagine capturing senior-ranking terrorist who has knowledge of terrorist attack that can happen at any moment. obviously - he's not going to spit it out. obviously he's going to laugh at you - "you will pay!" and preach about infidels, injustice, etc.

so when hundreds, if not thousands, of lives are at stake.... certain torture procedure is performed without leaving permanent physical damage on individual... which is waterboarding.
 
Reba said:
Types of waterboarding have been around since the Middle Ages.

Formal US special forces training started during WWII.
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all thanks to... the FROGMEN!
 
Jiro said:
simple - to get the vital information that is the matter of life and death. imagine capturing senior-ranking terrorist who has knowledge of terrorist attack that can happen at any moment. obviously - he's not going to spit it out. obviously he's going to laugh at you - "you will pay!" and preach about infidels, injustice, etc.

so when hundreds, if not thousands, of lives are at stake.... certain torture procedure is performed without leaving permanent physical damage on individual... which is waterboarding.
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I thought they did it for kicks...if there is a good reason such as getting information, then go for it!
 
Jolie77 said:
Ah, Thanks! That is what I thought.

It seems like it is a harsh torture. I was imaging that if I were to be the victim, I know I would not like it and wouldn't be pleased about it either.
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Willkommen.

Yes, that´s what I think the same... :cold:
 
shel90 said:
I thought they did it for kicks...if there is a good reason such as getting information, then go for it!
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OH HELL NO! people who did it for "kicks" are in jail. The pictures you saw in news like a female soldier smiling, posing while cuffed prisoners were naked are because the interrogator told her to do it.

It's part of "psychological torture" (I cannot recall proper term for that technique. Reba please do correct me) by offending terrorists' Islamic belief. For example - women is beneath everybody in their culture. To have a woman "overpowering" these men and laughing at them is psychologically demoralizing. When locked in prison cell, the prison keep blaring music at loud volume all day and night and kept shining bright spotlights on them so that they will suffer severe sleep deprivation.

They did not perform physical torture until later because psychological torture was probably proven ineffective and time-consuming. That's how waterboarding came in.
 
Liebling:-))) said:
Can you please show me where I say that I don´t beleive in punishment for criminals ?
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can you please learn how to follow the conversation? This thread is about torture, no? You do not believe in TORTURE (punishment), do you?
 
Jiro said:
OH HELL NO! people who did it for "kicks" are in jail. The pictures you saw in news like a female soldier smiling, posing while cuffed prisoners were naked are because the interrogator told her to do it....
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England gets 3 years for prison abuse
Soldier dishonorably discharged for Abu Ghraib scandal
The Associated Press
updated 3:06 a.m. ET, Wed., Sept. 28, 2005

FORT HOOD, Texas - Army Pfc. Lynndie England, who said she was only trying to please her soldier boyfriend when she took part in detainee abuse at Iraq’s Abu Ghraib prison, was sentenced late Tuesday to three years behind bars.

England’s sentencing wrapped up the last of nine courts-martial of low-level soldiers charged in the scandal, which severely damaged America’s image in the Muslim world and tarnished the U.S. military at home and abroad....
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The rest of the story at:

England gets 3 years for prison abuse - Crime & courts- msnbc.com
 
Jiro said:
can you please learn how to follow the conversation? This thread is about torture, no? You do not believe in TORTURE (punishment), do you?
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:scratch:

No, no, you should re-read and re-read CAREFULLY....PowerON never say that I don´t beleive in torture but said that I don´t beleive in punishment. You quoted to give him right. I asked you both in polite way to show me where I don´t beleive in punishment for criminals.

And please re-read and re-read the title of this thread CAREFULLY to see yourself that I do not create a thread over torture itself but UN Official wants to prosecute Bush, Rumsfeld for Torture. Its about Bush and Rumsfeld itself who violates the Internation law for did criminal Act, not torture itself because it´s them who authorize the torture. Its about Justice.
 
Liebling:-))) said:
:scratch:

No, no, you should re-read and re-read CAREFULLY....PowerON never say that I don´t beleive in torture but said that I don´t beleive in punishment. You quoted to give him right. I asked you both in polite way to show me where I don´t beleive in punishment for criminals.

And please re-read and re-read the title of this thread CAREFULLY to see yourself that I do not create a thread over torture itself but UN Official wants to prosecute Bush, Rumsfeld for Torture. Its about Bush and Rumsfeld itself who violates the Internation law for did criminal Act, not torture itself because it´s them who authorize the torture. Its about Justice.
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oh god forget it. whatever floats your boat, Liebling. :roll:
 
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