Turkey & the E.U.
- Thread starter Wokamuka
- Start date
Pfft, if Turkey are so interested into the EU then they should respect GLBT community just like other countries in the EU. It's not really fair for other countries to show respect to the GLBT while Turkey don't. If Turkey don't like anything that EU have, then Turkey should go somewhere else.
SCBassist
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Turkey is a predominantly muslim country, muslims still believe in conservative customs, though have a long way to go to be more accomodating of different lifestyles. Even with this in mind, Turkey is considered more tolerant compared to other muslim countries and that article is a bit surprising.
Well..it's easy to say that "Turkey" wants to get into the EU, but Turkey is full of people, and those people think and behave in lots of different ways. Many think that EU membership will make life better here but old attitudes die hard. Many people actually don't want EU membership, some because they don't want full democracy (because it would mean giving rights to people they don't want to giver rights to) and others for economic and cultural reasons. Many would still agree that the process has forced Turkey to relax on many human rights issues.
The truth about most transsexuals here is that they work as prostitutes, largely because it is difficult for them to get other work. But of course they do get more harassment than other female (or male for that matter) prostitutes. Thus the word "transexual" automatically calls to mind a "working girl" in Turkey, and the authorities have used this fact to justify their attack on Lambda Istanbul. The other justification is the presence of the words "gay and lesbian," which they claim is against Turkish traditional morals and customs (örf ve adet), one of many very vague laws that can be used to attack whomever you want.
Though the country is officiallly secular, the ruling party in Turkey is an Islamist government, and this is definitely part of the equation in the treatment of gays. There have been many less-reported issues, such as a gay nightclub refused its license by the police, though there is nothing officially illegal about homosexuality in Turkey. Secularity has been the center of much controversy lately, with many accusing party members at all levels of government of trying to dismantle Turkey's secular system. The current party is now under threat of closure.
The concept of gayness here is very different than in the west, and though acts that would definitely be considered homosexual have been very much a part of culture here (and were more tolerated 150 years ago than they are today), "gay" as an identity is a very new concept and something only recently much talked about. It's a bit like the US in the 60s in that sense - I was at the pride parade in Istanbul (1000 people!) and heard people expressing surprise that there were "guys with beards and moustaches" in the parade. In most people's minds "gay" means borderline transgender, exaggeratedly feminine, and they are shocked when that stereotype is not fulfilled.
for shedding light....By the way, there is an online peition that you can sign in support of Lambda Istanbul. The site is:
Lambdaistanbul Lezbiyen Gey Biseksüel Travesti Transseksüel Dayanýþma Derneði
The Turkish authorities are used to just doing whatever they want with no consequences. Let them know the world is watching.
Lambdaistanbul Lezbiyen Gey Biseksüel Travesti Transseksüel Dayanýþma Derneði
The Turkish authorities are used to just doing whatever they want with no consequences. Let them know the world is watching.
Wow interesting, thank you for a good post
I really hope that Turkey would show some respect to the homosexuals just like other countries someday, they do deserve it.Wow interesting, thank you for a good post
Hey....how was it being gay in Greece?
Well I don't know because I don't say that I was gay when I was in Greece, all I do is just be myself. The homosexual culture in Greece is pretty fexible than other countries, they have the gay towns and did legalize homosexual sex as males at 18 and females at 16. That's all I know
Well I don't know because I don't say that I was gay when I was in Greece, all I do is just be myself. The homosexual culture in Greece is pretty fexible than other countries, they have the gay towns and did legalize homosexual sex as males at 18 and females at 16. That's all I know
I was wondering if you had the chance to go to a gay bar or club when you were in Greece......
Ohh I don't, sorry..
I would definitely not say that Greece is flexible when it comes to homosexuality. Gay towns? Mykonos had a very large gay following for a long time; still does, but most of the country is still not at all comfortable with gayness. Like Turkey, the traditional ideas about male-male sexuality have to do with particular acts and the taboo is much more in the act of being passive/bottom than in the fact that it's with a member of the same sex. One of the worst things you can call someone in either place is puşt/pustis/ibne, all of which mean "a man who gets screwed." Lesbians just aren't really talked about but there is a slur in Greek - "plakomouna" which more or less refers to two female organs smashing into one another... The pressure to marry is not as heavy as it once was, but lots of gay men still do get married there in order not to arouse suspicion.
Athens does have lots of bars and clubs. The second-largest city, Thessaloniki, has a few. I think the presence of the internet as a way to find partners has allowed many young people to talk to other gays more securely but also cut down on some "real-life" opportunities for socialization.
Of course some things have changed in Greece since the EU and more opening to the outside world, and there are more gay people out to parents than back in the 80s. I helped the local Gay Liberation group then. One of their biggest problems was that they could not respond to anti-gay articles in the press because one could not write anonymously, and they were all afraid their parents would find out! Things have come a long way.
In Istanbul, we had our second big pride march on Sunday. Last year, it was not reported on at all. This year it did appear in a few papers, where they said "several hundred homosexuals demonstrated on Istiklal Caddesi in response to the closure of their organization." There were 1,500 easily, probably more. You can find clips of last year's Istanbul Pride on YouTube.
The vague law regarding "violation of general morals" was used to close down Lambda Istanbul, though it is being appealed. The round placards say "General Morals?" and "Whose Morals?"
Among the slogans was, "Ahlak baskın, şiddetse, biz ahlaksızız!" (If oppression and violence are morals, we are immoral!)
Athens does have lots of bars and clubs. The second-largest city, Thessaloniki, has a few. I think the presence of the internet as a way to find partners has allowed many young people to talk to other gays more securely but also cut down on some "real-life" opportunities for socialization.
Of course some things have changed in Greece since the EU and more opening to the outside world, and there are more gay people out to parents than back in the 80s. I helped the local Gay Liberation group then. One of their biggest problems was that they could not respond to anti-gay articles in the press because one could not write anonymously, and they were all afraid their parents would find out! Things have come a long way.
In Istanbul, we had our second big pride march on Sunday. Last year, it was not reported on at all. This year it did appear in a few papers, where they said "several hundred homosexuals demonstrated on Istiklal Caddesi in response to the closure of their organization." There were 1,500 easily, probably more. You can find clips of last year's Istanbul Pride on YouTube.
The vague law regarding "violation of general morals" was used to close down Lambda Istanbul, though it is being appealed. The round placards say "General Morals?" and "Whose Morals?"
Among the slogans was, "Ahlak baskın, şiddetse, biz ahlaksızız!" (If oppression and violence are morals, we are immoral!)
Thank you, Kipourgos, sorry if my post was mistake because I don't really know much about the gay culture in Greece.
Love your last parthesis
Not an issue.
That's why we have forums!