Tricky question maybe HARSH question

[Bottesini]

I think an interesting thing is that in a thread started by a profoundly deaf person, late deafened, and hoh are jumping in all over the place to tell another person profoundly deaf his whole life that he really isn't entitled to his feelings, and that they are not valid.

That's just like the point he made, and all those people are showing how right he is.

 

[Otherwise]

I think an interesting thing is that in a thread started by a profoundly deaf person, late deafened, and hoh are jumping in all over the place to tell another person profoundly deaf his whole life that he really isn't entitled to his feelings, and that they are not valid.

That's just like the point he made, and all those people are showing how right he is.

Fair enough. My intention wasn't to stomp on someone's point of view. Only to share my own.

I have a bad habit of jumping in on topics, and in this forum, where many of the threads involve several cultural perspectives, I can see myself possibly chatting out the wrong end a time or two.

 

[Tousi]

Where's the fun in that? Then you wouldn't even know ME!!

Well, ummm, if you insist......

 

[Crickets]

I think an interesting thing is that in a thread started by a profoundly deaf person, late deafened, and hoh are jumping in all over the place to tell another person profoundly deaf his whole life that he really isn't entitled to his feelings, and that they are not valid.

That's just like the point he made, and all those people are showing how right he is.

I don't think anyone told him he wasn't entitled to his feelings. His feelings are as valid as anyone else's, and he can believe what he wants to, but that doesn't mean that his assumptions/beliefs about all hearing people are true. I think some of us are frustrated because he keeps saying the only reason he can think of why hearing people fear losing their hearing is because of fear of oppression, even though several hearing people have explained to him that is not why they would not want to lose their hearing, and we've explained what our other reasons are.

He has asked a few times why hearing people don't want to become deaf, and several hearing/hoh people have provided answers/reasons, but it seems like he's ignoring what we have to say. If we disagree with his assumptions about hearing people, we have a right as hearing/hoh people to disagree with what he's saying about us if we believe he's wrong.

Because I'm not deaf, I'm not going to start posting my assumptions here about deaf people and expect them to not speak up if they think what I'm saying is wrong. If I said things like, "I can't understand why all deaf people don't want to get cochlear implants so they can hear. Hearing something is better than not hearing at all. If they don't want to hear, it must be because they're stupid or stubborn," (which I don't really think), that wouldn't go over too well. I think lots of deaf people would say that those beliefs aren't valid.

 

[diehardbiker]

To those who see what I am saying, thanks.

As to speak of why Deaf like myself does not wish to be able to hear, does not wish to have CI or anything to reverse my hearing loss, that is due to the fact my brain were "wired" to be Deaf. I cant image having severe crash course if I were regain hearing, going speech class or therapy actually terrified me. Yes, I was abused by speech therapy back then. Gawd! these brutal days are over. The problem I had back then was that I have no clue what they are trying to do with my speech only to her slapped my face a plenty of times.

I dont know what the outcome would be if I never had stupid speech therapy, or if I had a better therapy. Does not matter anymore cause most of my life, I have lived in silence with sides of enjoying hearing firecrackers going off.

Please dont take me as if I am biting at anyone, just that I still have curiousity about the sounds, I am actually seeing relationship between visual and audio, just that they are completely different sense but has a lot of similarity.

This may sound crude but, you know, Deaf could use visual cue on explain what a shit looks like, I am sure that hearing people use audio to give description what shit looks like, even as in size and so on. At first I thought it was impossible but my long time good friend who is terp told me otherwise and said yes can be done verbally. Interesting...

 

[ambrosia]

I think an interesting thing is that in a thread started by a profoundly deaf person, late deafened, and hoh are jumping in all over the place to tell another person profoundly deaf his whole life that he really isn't entitled to his feelings, and that they are not valid.

That's just like the point he made, and all those people are showing how right he is.

No it's not that. It's his assumption that what would be afraid of is that we would "KNOW we would be oppressed". What a load of poppycock. By and large since I've become deaf I have mostly been with kindness and understanding from hearing people. Mostly. There are asshats, there's always asshats. There's even deaf asshats.

The vast majority of hearing people don't know any deaf people, but they most assuredly do assume that they're all being oppressed therefore that is NOT sonething that would cross their minds. You have many thought and feelings when you're losing your hearing. Being oppressed is not one of them. In the 3 years I've been a member I've witnessed many misconceptions about hearing people on here, mostly people are wrong about what hearing think.

I have experienced the entire audiogram. I did not suddenly lose my hearing. I had perfect hearing until I was 20. It took 15-16 years to get to profound loss in both my hears. It's been a long slow slide, and for the most part I would keep it that. Even when I could hear out of only one hear, or when my loss was severe, things weren't too bad-unless you got me in a crowd. I could still carry a conversation easily, with anyone and everyone, talk on the phone, listen to music. I don't think I would trade that. Severe loss and profound loss may not be that far from each on the audiogram, but they are worlds apart.

Now some conditions. I'm hoping to get an implant, *crosses fingers*. As long as in your scenario getting an implant is a possibility I'd rather keep my own experience. If implants weren't a possibility Id rather have been born profoundly deaf, just so I, and my family would have learned ASL from the start.

THAT, DHB, is the issue. Communication, not "oppression", is the issue of the late deafened.

 

[diehardbiker]

THAT, DHB, is the issue. Communication, not "oppression", is the issue of the late deafened.

Thank you for proving my point, it is still considered as oppression because when one lose their hearing they get the first taste experiencing oppression from hearing people just like the rest of Deaf people have experienced.

"Oh gawd, how am I suppose to understand when trying to listen them, I am so embarassed to ask to repeat, what am I do when hearing person give up on me when I am unable to understand them due to my hearing loss?", and so on, these feelings are in fact valid. What do you call these feelings? Isnt it the feeling of being oppressed by hearing people?

Its all about realities, nothing more, nor less... it is what it is, my friend.

 

[Swedeafa]

Thank you for proving my point, it is still considered as oppression because when one lose their hearing they get the first taste experiencing oppression from hearing people just like the rest of Deaf people have experienced.

"Oh gawd, how am I suppose to understand when trying to listen them, I am so embarassed to ask to repeat, what am I do when hearing person give up on me when I am unable to understand them due to my hearing loss?", and so on, these feelings are in fact valid. What do you call these feelings? Isnt it the feeling of being oppressed by hearing people?

Its all about realities, nothing more, nor less... it is what it is, my friend.

I like this discussion.

I feel as broken and whole at the same time. A hearing loss is a hearing loss and I am a disabled person. I agree with the other HOH and late deafend. BUT - from another perspective there is nothing wrong with me. If I was excellent at customer support or a caring mother I still have those skills. I am the same person neither better or worse than before the hearing loss. I deserve the same respect, status and treatment as before!

When I got an FM-system at work my colleagues commented that my personality changed. Suddenly I was participating in discussions at meetings and voiced my opinions. It was a strange feeling. Before I had so much focus on trying to hear what was going on, that by the time I was ready to say something, the meeting had moved on to the next topic. I was the exactly same person with or without microphone, so if my colleagues appreciated my opinions the really should realise that I had the same skills and potential to contribute before. They don't. I am not calling this oppression, since oppression implies that somone intentionally wants to stop me. How om earth can we get people to understand that it is only the hearing the is affected and nothing else in me as a person?

To summarize, I don't think one perspective is right or wrong they just illustrate different things.

 

[Bebonang]

diehardbiker, I see your point. Hearing people have been trying to find cures for many of deaf and hard of hearing for many years, even centuries. Yes, they are so obsessed that they forced us to do their bidding and not paying attention to our needs. They ignored us. They don't understand anything about deafness that we were born with.

When I was in elementary school and high school, the special education teachers forced us to be like the hearing with microphone and headphones on us. We did not like those devices at all. We were never allowed to learn ASL. So we had to put up tried to made head and tail in the hearing classrooms. I had poor or bad grades because I could not understand them. I tried reading the books but I need more input from the teachers and hearing students. I had tried to tell the principal that I want to go into the Deaf school where the teachers can sign with ASL and that I would be able to understand about the courses in order to get good grades. This is the struggles that we endured so long.

Now I am Native American and it was worse for hearing Native Americans who were having to go through changes of their Cultures and traditions just to satisfied European people that they don't have to change to their Cultures and traditions. We were being oppressed by their attitude on getting what they want from us. There has been a lot of things gone bad back then.

So that was why we are going through the same thing being oppressed to satisfy the hearing society.

But right now we are talking about what we choose to be profoundly deaf or late deafened. It is not about wanting to be hearing. So I get the point what diehardbiker meant. The hearing society are still trying to find cures and that does not help anything at all to make us hearing. We can not hear normal like hearing people can hear. This is totally different than hearing people hear. Does that make sense on what I am saying here?

 

[diehardbiker]

Often, I am aware that oppression happens whether intentionally or not. Nobody likes to be oppressed by others.

 

[LoveBlue]

DHB mentioned the struggle he'd have to go thru to learn to hear if he got a CI. For me, and I assume a lot of HoH& hearing, it will be a struggle to learn ASL. I did take classes but, because I can still hear well with my HAs, I did not put much effort into it. But now I have some background to build on should I feel the need to learn it again. But it will still be a struggle, especially "grammar".

 

[Crickets]

Thank you for proving my point, it is still considered as oppression because when one lose their hearing they get the first taste experiencing oppression from hearing people just like the rest of Deaf people have experienced.

"Oh gawd, how am I suppose to understand when trying to listen them, I am so embarassed to ask to repeat, what am I do when hearing person give up on me when I am unable to understand them due to my hearing loss?", and so on, these feelings are in fact valid. What do you call these feelings? Isnt it the feeling of being oppressed by hearing people?

Its all about realities, nothing more, nor less... it is what it is, my friend.

What Ambrosia and the rest of us have said about the issue being communication (not oppression) doesn't prove your point. I've been hoh my whole life and I've never been told I couldn't do something because I'm hoh. When the hearing in my "good" ear got bad enough so that it was more difficult for me to hear clearly, I wasn't embarrassed about having to ask people to repeat themselves, and I never thought "Oh no, people are going to oppress me now because I'm losing my hearing!" I simply made the decision for me that it was time to get hearing aids and I went out and got them. I've never felt sorry for myself or embarrassed because I can't hear as well as hearing people, and I've never been shy about letting people know if I can't hear them, so maybe my positive attitude shows and that's why I don't fear being oppressed by hearing people if I ever go completely deaf.

Being oppressed by hearing people is not something I worry about at all. My experience with hearing people has been that they've tried to be as helpful and understanding as possible about my hearing loss. My not wanting to become deaf is because of sounds that I would miss and the fact that it would be difficult for me to communicate in the same way with anyone (both with hearing AND Deaf people) because I never learned ASL and no one in my family knows ASL. But if I become deaf and can't communicate as easily with other people, I'm not going to feel oppressed because of it. If I lose my hearing, I'll rely on writing things down, closed captioning, and various forms of technology. The hearing and Deaf people I communicate with will just have to learn to deal with it (and so will I!) I don't see ASL ever becoming my main means of communicating with others because no one in my family knows it and I don't know any Deaf people, so I don't feel learning it at this point would be of much benefit to me.

If I become deaf and am ever discriminated against or oppressed, then I'll deal with it when it happens, but I'm certainly not going to waste my time worrying about it now or then.

 

[Frisky Feline]

Often, I am aware that oppression happens whether intentionally or not. Nobody likes to be oppressed by others.

yes. I understand what others saying. I have to admit that my kids are hearing. I sure dont want to see my kids losing their hearing when they hit 20s or 30s or 40s because they are SO used to the way their life goes. I know it is not about oppression. It's about losing something that they had it SO long. it will be hard for them to adjust the lifestyle. Im sure someone explained it to you over and over about the sound they missed so much.

It is different between oppression and lost.

im sure some of them will face lot of oppression evenutally but their mind is the first thing in the morning, they cant hear anymore that makes them to visible more and adjust to movement more etc..

 

[dogmom]

Frisky, I want to ask you...as a hoh...can I come in.

But I think this is a good question and I learn from you and everyone when I read.

 

[Frisky Feline]

Frisky, I want to ask you...as a hoh...can I come in.

But I think this is a good question and I learn from you and everyone when I read.

Sure. im curious like cats always do.

 

[Jane B.]

DHB mentioned the struggle he'd have to go thru to learn to hear if he got a CI. For me, and I assume a lot of HoH& hearing, it will be a struggle to learn ASL. I did take classes but, because I can still hear well with my HAs, I did not put much effort into it. But now I have some background to build on should I feel the need to learn it again. But it will still be a struggle, especially "grammar".

I have much less word comprehension than LoveBlue. Have used my state Relay Service for phone calls ever since it started in the 1990's. I am now considering more than ever finding out if I qualify for CI. Over the years have had logistics and insurance considerations. The insurance question probably disappeared a few years ago when I went on Medicare but the logistics has not.

I know I have said something very similar in other threads . . . but. I took ASL as a community college night class twice (two different years) and made NO contacts to even practice with outside of class. So, of course, I have forgotten 99% of what I did learn. There does not seem to be much of a deaf community around here (ZIP code 62801) as it have been years since I happened seen anyone signing in a store or anywhere else.

I still have great trouble wrapping my head around the idea that American Sign Language (ASL) was developed with such different grammar than American English! Yes, Thomas Hopkins Gallaudet went to a French expert but he was from the USA and knew that English was the dominant language. So . . . why didn't it get set up with English grammar????

 

[AlleyCat]

Jane, that's what SEE was designed for. (Signed Exact English).

ASL is an entirely different language that describes in pictures, so grammar is not used in the same way.

 

[artr]

i write romance: "...but do you feel one group is superior to the other?"

I haven't seen this addressed and I don't believe it's a matter of superiority of one group over another.

 

[Jane B.]

Jane, that's what SEE was designed for. (Signed Exact English).

ASL is an entirely different language that describes in pictures, so grammar is not used in the same way.

I already knew that is what it is now. But . . . I can't understand why something more similar to spoken American English was not promoted from the very beginning to help the two groups understand each other!

 

[Frisky Feline]

ASL was its own independent language because it had its own syntax, grammar, and morphology, as spoken languages do.

I found some quote that it is clear.