Totally not meant to start a war. Just some reflections.

[ecp]

everyone should know sign language deaf or not. We all do already really- put any two people together with no previous knowledge of a specific sign language method and require them to communicate without language. In a very short amount of time you will have communication. They will become able to convey complex ideas rapidly.

I like your thinking. I had my first ever Vocational Rehabilitation meeting today. It was weird, the Deaf specialist couldn't sign. She started out typing everything but I just told her to give me the forms to fill out and that she did not need to explain the forms to me.
It was almost insulting, they assumed that I could barely read and asked if I needed help finishing my GED. When I told them I had a Bachelor's degree from a very well known liberal arts college I got a funny look, like "why are you here?"
It was awkward to explain that I'm here because I need new hearing aids and without them I can't get into medical school despite being qualified. I got counseling about "realistic expectations" and then I got to explain that the class I didn't do well in was because my hearing went from severe to profound in a few weeks AND I had the worst professor ever.

RockDrummer- I'm not attacking you. You must be a lucky parent with an enlightened care provider for your kid (I'm assuming you are the parent of a CI kid). AGBell is an example of a very influential organization that actively promotes Auditory Verbal methods above all others. For a kid with a CI, learning to hear and understand sounds of the CI is important but the fact remains that the whole basis of the "therapy" relies on the child's least effective sense. I think it would be great if all kids were taught sign language. There are programs with "reverse mainstream" where the majority of kids are deaf and the minority are hearing, everybody benefits from this type of arrangement. The hearing kids have good peer models for sign language and the deaf kids have good peer models for spoken language. Most importantly, all the kids can communicate with each other.

Maybe the reason kids who learn sign language "are destined for deaf schools" is because at deaf schools they have a peer group with whom they can communicate whereas in mainstream, deaf kids are separated by a language barrier from their hearing classmates.

My elementary school was a mix between reverse mainstream and mainstream. The deaf kids were always in classes with other deaf kids and the hearing kids who knew ASL. At the time I was a HOH kid who could sign but nobody picked up on my hearing loss because I was always in classes with interpreters. [Ironically the speech therapist couldn't understand why I had articulation problems...it turns out that the hearing screening tests we had every year used 65 to 70 dB sounds and being a sneaky little smart kid, I always memorized which hands the kids before me raised (the test was to raise the hand on the side in which you hear the sound) and the order they raised their hands.]

Then I transferred to a very intense high school where my largest class had 12 people. I could understand enough to get by but suffered socially.

It wasn't until college that I got hearing aids, which is apparently the norm in my family's hearing loss. We are little smart asses who unknowingly trick people into thinking we can hear until we are ~16 when we suddenly become deaf.

Damn smartass kids. I seem to be the only one in my generation to be lucky enough to get the gene but the family tree of deaf, belligerent Irish people goes way back.

 

[rockdrummer]

Rockdrummer, read post #8 in the thread started by south_momma in the thread called "newbie needs advice". That's proof of a situation where a parent was told not to use ASL with her child.

I understand that in some circumstances under certian conditions that a parent may be told not to use sign. Example; if the parent has elected to go with a CI or the oral route. What bothers me is how some people on this board choose their words. They way they make it sound is that ALL hearing parents are told not to use sign. What I am saying is that is NOT true and it paints an innacurate picture.

Peace!

 

[shel90]

I understand that in some circumstances under certian conditions that a parent may be told not to use sign. Example; if the parent has elected to go with a CI or the oral route. What bothers me is how some people on this board choose their words. They way they make it sound is that ALL hearing parents are told not to use sign. What I am saying is that is NOT true and it paints an innacurate picture.

Peace!

Ok.

However, in my experience it happens too often.

 

[rockdrummer]

Ok.

However, in my experience it happens too often.

I am not disputing the frequency and perhaps it does happen too often. I just have not seen it in my experience. My point about misinformation is only that it doesn't happen all of the time as some have said or implied.

 

[shel90]

I am not disputing the frequency and perhaps it does happen too often. I just have not seen it in my experience. My point about misinformation is only that it doesn't happen all of the time as some have said or implied.

If it didnt happen as much, then there wont be a need to draw the cartoon. Just saying.

 

[inmate23]

oral deaf parents are the same as hearing parents

Yeah ... Cos people tend to think deaf people needs to be fixed.

That is why I see so many deaf kids who can speak in my area. OH, NO! YOU CAN'T USE SIGN LANGUAGE!! USE YOUR VOICE ONLY!! Only hearing children are allowed cos they can hear, and you can't. You little poor thing!

:roll: Whatever.

Some deaf (note little d) oral parents of DEAF teens hate the fact the teen uses sign and cued speech and is in the deaf community.

She cant afford hearing and the state payed for mine is the biggest problem.

 

[deafdyke]

Rockdrummer...............you're right. Some parents are encouraged to pursue ASL/TC. That's different from the old days when the entire focus was on speech speech and more speech.
However far too many parents are encouraged to pursue speech without Sign.
You know.....I wonder if a lot of the "oral sucesses" are more due to the fact that there seem to be a lot of parents who are helicopter parents. You know the kind who are so involved with their kids that every single mintute MUST be hyperprogrammed and enriched? I wonder if you took away the very high achievers, if most of the other oral kids would be the same kids who have always done mediorcly in the mainstream. (like they aren't acheiving to the best of their abilty, and they're just treading water in the mainstream)

 

[TinyAttentionSp]

Stupid question- can't you "talk" ASL and English to a baby, deaf or no? So that they learn both? I mean, I was never formally taught anything, but one of my babysitters was Spanish and until I hit 2nd grade, I spoke such thick Spanglish that I needed to take ESL. Of course now, I don't speak a word of spanish, but if I had hung out with more spanish people, i'd prolly still know it. And I can't assume that I'm any smarter or any less able to learn a language than if I wasn't with her. So why can't deaf children learn to sign and speak?

 

[shel90]

Stupid question- can't you "talk" ASL and English to a baby, deaf or no? So that they learn both? I mean, I was never formally taught anything, but one of my babysitters was Spanish and until I hit 2nd grade, I spoke such thick Spanglish that I needed to take ESL. Of course now, I don't speak a word of spanish, but if I had hung out with more spanish people, i'd prolly still know it. And I can't assume that I'm any smarter or any less able to learn a language than if I wasn't with her. So why can't deaf children learn to sign and speak?

Despite intense speech therapy, some deaf children are unable to develop speech skills.

 

[TinyAttentionSp]

Despite intense speech therapy, some deaf children are unable to develop speech skills.

Oh well, no I figured, but then they would just sign then, right? So they could try to learn both, if they can't develop speech, they just sign. Instead of going only for sign or only for speech, try both out and see what the child can handle in the long run?

 

[shel90]

Oh well, no I figured, but then they would just sign then, right? So they could try to learn both, if they can't develop speech, they just sign. Instead of going only for sign or only for speech, try both out and see what the child can handle in the long run?

That's my belief...give all deaf children the opportunity for both instead of one or the other.

 

[deafdyke]

Instead of going only for sign or only for speech, try both out and see what the child can handle in the long run?

I KNOW! Despite wat those AG Bad dumbasses think, the percentage of Sign only folks is very small. Most people who advocate Sign, advocate it on a "it's useful to be bilingal AND to capitalize on a dhh child's natural visual processing sense/ full toolbox philsophy.

 

[Lighthouse77]

I wonder why people worry about signing "is", "are", "-ing" when they already MAKE some deaf people speak it without sign language (verbal communication). As long as they can speak it and read lips, they should know exactly what they are talking about. Afterall, I never learned the sign for is, are, etc. when I took english class in the mainstreamed public school.. It was spoken to me using the tools I had (hearing aids).

beside, I learned most of my english from my speech therapy anyway.

 

[deafskeptic]

I keep hearing people say that hearing parents of deaf babies are told not to use sign language. THIS IS NOT TRUE! I AM A CASE IN POINT and I know many other hearing parents that are too. That said, I do believe that if someone opts for a CI then naturally they will want to go down the path of spoken language. Otherwise why on earth would you get a CI? But I also know of many parents that have chosen a CI that still do use sign language too. So I don't know where all of these claims come from. And there are never any facts or sources to back them up. Please stop with the misinformation.

My parents were told not to allow me to use signs when I was dx'd as deaf at 7 months old. My parents thought that since the people were experts on deafness, they should follow their advice.

 

[Cheri]

Oh well, no I figured, but then they would just sign then, right? So they could try to learn both, if they can't develop speech, they just sign. Instead of going only for sign or only for speech, try both out and see what the child can handle in the long run?

Agreed on the combination of speech and signs.

 

[rockdrummer]

My parents were told not to allow me to use signs when I was dx'd as deaf at 7 months old. My parents thought that since the people were experts on deafness, they should follow their advice.

I am sure it happens. My point is that the way some people choose their words, the give the false impression that it happens to all hearing parents of deaf children. It did not happen to us. Nobody ever told us not to use sign language.

 

[rockdrummer]

Rockdrummer...............you're right. Some parents are encouraged to pursue ASL/TC. That's different from the old days when the entire focus was on speech speech and more speech.
However far too many parents are encouraged to pursue speech without Sign.
You know.....I wonder if a lot of the "oral sucesses" are more due to the fact that there seem to be a lot of parents who are helicopter parents. You know the kind who are so involved with their kids that every single mintute MUST be hyperprogrammed and enriched? I wonder if you took away the very high achievers, if most of the other oral kids would be the same kids who have always done mediorcly in the mainstream. (like they aren't acheiving to the best of their abilty, and they're just treading water in the mainstream)

those are good points DD and thank you for understanding my position.

 

[Lighthouse77]

I wonder why people worry about signing "is", "are", "-ing" when they already MAKE some deaf people speak it without sign language (verbal communication). As long as they can speak it and read lips, they should know exactly what they are talking about. Afterall, I never learned the sign for is, are, etc. when I took english class in the mainstreamed public school.. It was spoken to me using the tools I had (hearing aids).

beside, I learned most of my english from my speech therapy anyway.

To add, I think English class and speech therapy should go together for someone who is deaf. And ASL for all other subjects.

 

[Lissa]

I was dx'd severely deaf at 9 months. From 3 my parents were told not to sign with me. I was put in an oral class, I eventually started signing on my own(picking it up from other signing kids) my parents learnt sign and signed with me at home sometimes. My parents eventually know and learnt to follow the child and see what they do. I grew up oral. I dropped the signs at home as I got older. In my teen years my mum actually asked me if I wanted her to sign to me. I said no.