And you know this how? Are you an old school AG Bell "professional" who has never even visited a Deaf School, but are simply parroting something from an article written for Volta Voices? Deaf Schools are just like hearing schools, but they TEACH in ASL. It's just like the way Welsh Schools teach in Welsh. The problem isn't ASL, but the fact that the overwhelming majority of the student body transfers to the deaf school as a last resort. So they are REALLY behind. Besides the system is VERY broken in the mainstream. The mainstream produces hearing students who attend Ivy League and highly competitive schools, but at the same time it can produce kids who cannot even read! Have you somehow missed the debate on reforming education?
Thoughts On Mainstream Schools
- Thread starter Renée12
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The part I have added bold to is the way I feel about the things you post. You leave me with the feeling that I am supposed to take what you say about ANYTHING as gospel just because you say so. Where does your expertise come from?
AlleyCat
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This post was uncalled for.
And just about everyone on this forum feels the same way about your posts.
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Deafdyke... you can't speak for everybody. Most of us went through similar things growing up. Maybe it may be better that you lurk here instead of criticize others like you just did.
Btw not many hearing students go to Ivy League or Harvard School so you might want to think again.
Btw not many hearing students go to Ivy League or Harvard School so you might want to think again.
hoichi
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i dunno where you get your stuff.
c'mon, yeah like mainstream produces ivy leagues at what rate?
who the hell even goals to the ivy league?
we should keep this real.
most Deaf that get mainstreamed don't end up in ivy league, hell most hearires don't end up there either.
you are correct the plms are not with ASL as the language. the plm is varied but it starts at the top. Deaf schools have been by design strangled as per the course of the second wave of oralism and its aims. this strangling has resulted in the loss of funds to Deaf schools, those funds being instead used in the main stream
its been part of their project of assimilation since the 19 century.
once they could no longer hold our schools as they did for a hundred years, they by a clever ploy where able to strangle them and have them close or close to it or kept on live support as it is, the old statement here holds true, be careful what you wish for.
the ada and idea screwed us big time. as trojan horses. to the glee of oralist who tend to always out flank us where it counts.
some may vew this all as some unfortunate happenstance and poor accident.
but when it comes to educational policy, few random accidents or happenstance occurs on the scale we are discussing
you are correct re the system being broken, indeed it is. and the student body transferring when they do to most Deaf schools indeed that is correct
its far more likely kids coming out of mainstream will have a limited reading level then it is kids heading into the skull and bones society at yale..
Critcizing??!?! No, I simply brought up a very good question. Yes, there are good deaf schools/programs, and there are bad ones......and there are REASONS behind the fact that some Deaf Schools are bad. There are people who are convinced that the reason that Deaf Schools are bad is b/c of an inherent poor quality with dhh kids, and they do not really look at the CAUSES behind low acheivement, at schools and programs for the Deaf. There are a lot of reasons why Deaf schools might not be the best.....but automaticly assuming that they're bad and that kids just learn VERY basic curriculum, like second grade level IS offensive unless you have actually WORKED at a school or program for the Deaf, and know the stories behind the low acheivement. We even have a TOD here who has said "she thought the same thing before she started working at a certain place.....and the stories she has shared have been heartbreaking.........and yes, I know that not too many hearing students attend Ivy League/highly competitive schools. Still, some do......... But that reinforces my point.....there are some really good amazing stories out of hearing schools from hearing students, and then there's a whole spectrum of acheivement as well.....including kids who might not be able to read or do simple math. There's a whole debate on reforming MAINSTREAM education. Not all schools are middle class suburban schools with lots and lots of resources, and where it is super easy to get accomondations. Not all students are strongly academicly capable. .... I'm just pointing that out. Yes, I know the debate is complex, and there are no easy answers, but indeed to kneejerkingly assume that a Deaf School, which one has not even visited to hear the stories of the kids is of bad quality is extremely offensive.
I am a professional IEP advocate. I work with experts who have 30 plus years experiance in Deaf Ed. They confirm what I am saying 100%. Do a bit of research. You'll see that what I am saying is 100% correct. If Jill was not banned, she could confirm what I am reporting.
hoichi
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this might seem rude but i dont mean it too.
i thought you worked with clams?
(no really)
i dont know why now, but i always assumed you worked in the clam industry..
(shakes head)
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That's oysters...
hoichi
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LOL. No. I am not a Scienctologist
That is one of my jobs yes. I am a professional IEP advocate, I also design and make hearing aid jewrely. One can have many jobs.
whatdidyousay!
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For me, I have been in full-time special education at local school, mainstream and deaf school.
I was in full-time special education class with deaf students from preschool to 4th grade, so they put me in mainstream class with hearing students, but I didn't very well in mainstream class that caused me to return to full-time special education again for 5th grade. My reading and English writing were abysmal. My IEP meeting decided to recommended me to send to deaf school for 6th grade, so that what I did. Whoa, I found that deaf school was too easy to me when compare to my hearing school, so director at deaf school decided to let me skipped 6th grade and put me in 7th grade, and finally, I found some of them were challenging but I didn't adapt to those challenges until I was in 8th grade, it was major improvement. I studied very well and got mostly A and B on exams. After 8th grade, I was ready for 9th grade at high school department, I found one class challenging was math since rest of others were normal to easy. I managed to improve with math when I was 11th grade after failed Algebra 1 in 10th grade.
The deaf school in my state is unique due to strict grooming code that where all boys must be clean shaven (no beard and mustache allowed), no longer hairs nor earrings for boys, of course, they are required to wear uniform, but some deaf schools in other states require uniform only. In our state, if you don't like their policies so you have other options - send to MSSD in DC metro or mainstream schools (they usually have loosen dress code, also less restriction than deaf school), whichever your parents agree with it.
I left deaf school when I was 12th grade and transferred to mainstream school in my area with full-time in hearing classes all day with some IDEA modification, but I was surprised that most classes weren't too challenge to me, even some teachers are too lazy as well (even same issues at deaf school as well). I didn't have any issue with accommodation at mainstream school as 12th grade, but I had to deal with bullying due to my sexual orientation, even none of schools in my state is safe space for LGBT students, so MSSD is probably better option, but my parents won't let me go there. I graduated from mainstream school with certification only, but eventually upgraded to diploma after I passed few remaining of graduation exams.
My English didn't start to improving until I went to community college in 2010, eventually one more other remedial at UAB, so I did very well at Gallaudet without need tutoring service, but I just only need them for my final writing projects. For math, I had go to tutoring service all time, it was successful with Intermediate Algebra, but not Precalculus, so I need to review all Algebra again if I have to re-take Precalculus.
For OP, that's your decision, but schools usually have different performances, depending on teachers. If you didn't well on some subjects so you may have to take remedial classes (mainly English and Math) at college.
I was in full-time special education class with deaf students from preschool to 4th grade, so they put me in mainstream class with hearing students, but I didn't very well in mainstream class that caused me to return to full-time special education again for 5th grade. My reading and English writing were abysmal. My IEP meeting decided to recommended me to send to deaf school for 6th grade, so that what I did. Whoa, I found that deaf school was too easy to me when compare to my hearing school, so director at deaf school decided to let me skipped 6th grade and put me in 7th grade, and finally, I found some of them were challenging but I didn't adapt to those challenges until I was in 8th grade, it was major improvement. I studied very well and got mostly A and B on exams. After 8th grade, I was ready for 9th grade at high school department, I found one class challenging was math since rest of others were normal to easy. I managed to improve with math when I was 11th grade after failed Algebra 1 in 10th grade.
The deaf school in my state is unique due to strict grooming code that where all boys must be clean shaven (no beard and mustache allowed), no longer hairs nor earrings for boys, of course, they are required to wear uniform, but some deaf schools in other states require uniform only. In our state, if you don't like their policies so you have other options - send to MSSD in DC metro or mainstream schools (they usually have loosen dress code, also less restriction than deaf school), whichever your parents agree with it.
I left deaf school when I was 12th grade and transferred to mainstream school in my area with full-time in hearing classes all day with some IDEA modification, but I was surprised that most classes weren't too challenge to me, even some teachers are too lazy as well (even same issues at deaf school as well). I didn't have any issue with accommodation at mainstream school as 12th grade, but I had to deal with bullying due to my sexual orientation, even none of schools in my state is safe space for LGBT students, so MSSD is probably better option, but my parents won't let me go there. I graduated from mainstream school with certification only, but eventually upgraded to diploma after I passed few remaining of graduation exams.
My English didn't start to improving until I went to community college in 2010, eventually one more other remedial at UAB, so I did very well at Gallaudet without need tutoring service, but I just only need them for my final writing projects. For math, I had go to tutoring service all time, it was successful with Intermediate Algebra, but not Precalculus, so I need to review all Algebra again if I have to re-take Precalculus.
For OP, that's your decision, but schools usually have different performances, depending on teachers. If you didn't well on some subjects so you may have to take remedial classes (mainly English and Math) at college.
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Teacherofthedeaf
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Did you attend Kansas School for the Deaf? How do you know it would be an amazing experience?
Teacherofthedeaf
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Can you tell me more about the legal training you have to be an advocate? How many cases have you attended? What percentage ended up in mediation? In what states have you served? What legal precedent do you find most helpful in arguing for an out of district placement as the LRE? What do you think of the most recent clarification of the ADA and how it can be applied for deaf and hard of hearing students?
Again TOD, just b/c YOU had an alledgly horrible experience with ONE Deaf School, it doesn't mean that ALL deaf schools are like that. I have friends who actually WORK at KSD, as well as kids who have gone there. I ACTUALLY know parents of HOH kids who sent their kid to preschool/kindergarten at KSD, and they cannot say enough good things about it. They all say that they were mindblown at the quality of services and educational programing, as well as not having to fight for basic accomondations. Great, we all realize your training has trained you to have a hate on about Deaf Schools. Newsflash, it's no longer 1974, and public school teachers are no longer wildly impressed by deaf kids who can speak. You do realize that a lot of the reason why Deaf Schools are so bad is b/c they're generally last resort placements for dhh kids.....and you do realize that quite a few of the kids who have fallen through the cracks might be oral. How about actually TALKING to people who work at Deaf Schools, instead of automaticly idealizing the "mainstream" as the best place in the world? You do realize that the mainstream and the hearing/talking world has major major problems, and isn't some glorious utopia where everyone is well educated right? You do realize that hearing schools only produce 30% of students who are college ready right? You also realize that mainstream schools can "hide" the low acheivers right?
Sorry, I can't. That is private information. Nice try Melissa.
Teacherofthedeaf
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I have never had a bad experience with a Deaf school. I have worked closely with my state school for the Deaf because I recently had one of my students more there as a residential student. It was a complicated home situation, and while I didn't think it was the right fit for her, I had to acquiesce to the family. Deaf schools are sometimes the perfect LRE for students and sometimes it is a general education placement. I am not saying that all local schools are great and all Deaf schools are bad, not at all. I was asking why you thought that this school was the right fit for this student.