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That looks painful, and looks like all the blood vessels are going to explode!
That´s what I notice...
The world's second-ever octuplets were born
- Thread starter LakeTahoe
- Start date
That´s what I notice...
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She is still full NUTSO!!!!
Since it is my thread, if it is still a bit heated up, please lock it. Thanks!
Why? This is a controversial case...
LakeTahoe
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Yea I understand that BUT IF it get heated up with negative, I would ask MOD to lock it whenever she/he see any negative comments.
So far it seem OK.
So far it seem OK.
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Huh?
Anyway in a disscussion today with my cousin who is diabetic (type 2) and is not obese, works, and goes to school. She has no insurance to cover her insulin and if she goes without it for even 1 day she is ill enough she has to go to the emergency room.
She went to the health clinic in her county and they told her that she was not eligible for medicaid because her type 2 diabetes was a manageable disease, but if she got pregnant she could receive state assistance as pregnancy is appearently an uncontrollable and unmanageable disease.
You know what she told them?
Cousin: Your'e telling me that although I am an insulin dependent type 2 diabetic that will die if I don't take insulin that I have a manageable disease and I cannot afford my medications, but if I decided to go get knocked up that at that point I then I have an unmanageable disease? Your working for a messed up system.
She then gathered her things and left.
Im just flabbergasted that the ones who really do need the assistance can't get it, but yet those that don't need it in the first place are getting more than they need. I think it all comes down to the fact that a majority of welfare recipient probably lie on the application, and when they do this, someone else with real problems cant get help, people like my cousin.
I have also been told that the parents of this mom have kicked her out after having these octuplets and they put their foot down and said NO MORE!!
If thats true then the mother stands to lose all of her kids because there is no way she is going to afford a house big enough to give them proper living conditions. I hope this is true because it is obvious she doesn't give a rats ass one way or another about her kids. These kids deserve to go to a loving home that will give them the proper care and attention they need.
The judge should also order this women to have a complete hysterectomy and therefore cannot and will not ever bear anymore children at the taxpayer's expense.
I personally would like to see her on Dr. Phil and watch him tear her apart on stage for her actions.
Anyway in a disscussion today with my cousin who is diabetic (type 2) and is not obese, works, and goes to school. She has no insurance to cover her insulin and if she goes without it for even 1 day she is ill enough she has to go to the emergency room.
She went to the health clinic in her county and they told her that she was not eligible for medicaid because her type 2 diabetes was a manageable disease, but if she got pregnant she could receive state assistance as pregnancy is appearently an uncontrollable and unmanageable disease.
You know what she told them?
Cousin: Your'e telling me that although I am an insulin dependent type 2 diabetic that will die if I don't take insulin that I have a manageable disease and I cannot afford my medications, but if I decided to go get knocked up that at that point I then I have an unmanageable disease? Your working for a messed up system.
She then gathered her things and left.
Im just flabbergasted that the ones who really do need the assistance can't get it, but yet those that don't need it in the first place are getting more than they need. I think it all comes down to the fact that a majority of welfare recipient probably lie on the application, and when they do this, someone else with real problems cant get help, people like my cousin.
I have also been told that the parents of this mom have kicked her out after having these octuplets and they put their foot down and said NO MORE!!
If thats true then the mother stands to lose all of her kids because there is no way she is going to afford a house big enough to give them proper living conditions. I hope this is true because it is obvious she doesn't give a rats ass one way or another about her kids. These kids deserve to go to a loving home that will give them the proper care and attention they need.
The judge should also order this women to have a complete hysterectomy and therefore cannot and will not ever bear anymore children at the taxpayer's expense.
I personally would like to see her on Dr. Phil and watch him tear her apart on stage for her actions.
If I calculated it right, it would cost $60 million a month to care for all eight babies!
Californian residents
to pay the tax out of their pocket.
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:roll:
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I wonder if Suleman broke the Federal law since FDA has not approval embryos? Isn't it fishy going on science without FDA allow this?
jillio
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By Elizabeth Cohen
CNN Senior Medical Correspondent
Dr. Jane Miller remembers the first -- and the last -- time she implanted four embryos into a patient getting in-vitro fertilization.
Nadya Suleman gave birth to octuplets on January 26. Fanfare -- and controversy -- were not far behind.
1 of 2 "It was 1999, and we got triplets, and I said, 'My God, never again,' " remembers the fertility expert in Englewood Cliffs, New Jersey. "The human uterus is meant to carry only one at a time."
Since then, Miller says, she implants only one or two embryos; on "very, very rare" occasions she'll implant three. When she heard Nadya Suleman, the mother of octuplets in California, say her doctor had implanted six embryos, she was outraged.
Miller is not alone. Fertility experts around the country say there's never a reason to implant six embryos. It's risky, and it's way outside the scope of normal practice: Data from the Centers for Disease Control show that on average, fertility doctors implant 2.3 embryos into women under age 35.
Why, then, did Suleman's doctor implant so many embryos?
That's the question fertility experts, bloggers and now the Medical Board of California have been asking since Suleman, age 33, gave birth to octuplets in January. In media interviews, she identified her reproductive endocrinologist as Dr. Michael Kamrava of West Coast IVF Clinic in Beverly Hills, California.
The state board is now investigating the "Suleman matter," according to Candis Cohen, a spokeswoman for the board. Kamrava did not return phone calls to his office from CNN.
"It's crazy," said Dr. Walid Saleh, medical director of the Sher Institute for Reproductive Medicine in Dallas, Texas, noting that implanting six embryos clearly violates guidelines set by the American Society for Assisted Reproductive Medicine, which recommends implanting no more than two embryos in a woman under 35. "I don't know of anyone else who does this."
Saleh and other fertility experts say they think they know why Kamrava chose to implant so many embryos. The CDC keeps statistics on fertility doctors and their success rates, and Kamrava's is significantly below the national average.
Nationally, when doctors implant embryos, they manage to achieve a live birth 38.7 percent of the time, according to the CDC data. But Kamrava achieved a live birth 10 percent of the time, according to CDC data for his clinic.
"He has terrible statistics," says Miller. Other doctors say he had to put in a large number of embryos to get any success at all.
Miller and other experts in the fertility field say it's not talked about a lot, but Kamrava is not the only one implanting such a large number of embryos. "This is not an isolated case," says Pamela Madsen, a fertility blogger and founder of the American Fertility Association. "It's more common than you might think for a patient to stumble upon a doctor who's willing to deviate from the norm."
So, before you select a fertility doctor, do your homework. Start by clicking on the CDC's Fertility Clinic Reports page to find information for a fertility clinic you're interested in. Look for the line "percentage of cycles resulting in live births." This tells you how often a clinic was able to achieve a live birth, or in layman's terms, the clinic's "success rate."
Farther down, the line "percentage of pregnancies with triplets or more" lets you know how often a clinic had a pregnancy with high-order multiples. "Anything more than a singleton or twins is risky," Miller says. "Even twins have higher risks of having health and developmental problems. People go to the shopping mall and see double strollers and say, 'Oh, how cute.' They don't see the ones who aren't able to leave the house."
Madsen also recommends talking to other patients about their experience with fertility doctors. The groups Resolve and Fertile Thoughts both have popular online forums and discussion boards. "If you post a doctor's name and nobody's heard of him, that's a red flag," Madsen says.
To learn more about the terms you'll hear about on these Web sites and in doctor's offices, take a look at this glossary of fertility terms.
Madsen says another sign of a good fertility doctor is one who won't yield to patients' pressure to implant a large number of embryos. "Patients really need to be aware that a doctor simply pleasing them may not actually be good medical practice," she says.
Six embryos?! How to avoid a fertility fiasco - CNN.com
CNN Senior Medical Correspondent
Dr. Jane Miller remembers the first -- and the last -- time she implanted four embryos into a patient getting in-vitro fertilization.
Nadya Suleman gave birth to octuplets on January 26. Fanfare -- and controversy -- were not far behind.
1 of 2 "It was 1999, and we got triplets, and I said, 'My God, never again,' " remembers the fertility expert in Englewood Cliffs, New Jersey. "The human uterus is meant to carry only one at a time."
Since then, Miller says, she implants only one or two embryos; on "very, very rare" occasions she'll implant three. When she heard Nadya Suleman, the mother of octuplets in California, say her doctor had implanted six embryos, she was outraged.
Miller is not alone. Fertility experts around the country say there's never a reason to implant six embryos. It's risky, and it's way outside the scope of normal practice: Data from the Centers for Disease Control show that on average, fertility doctors implant 2.3 embryos into women under age 35.
Why, then, did Suleman's doctor implant so many embryos?
That's the question fertility experts, bloggers and now the Medical Board of California have been asking since Suleman, age 33, gave birth to octuplets in January. In media interviews, she identified her reproductive endocrinologist as Dr. Michael Kamrava of West Coast IVF Clinic in Beverly Hills, California.
The state board is now investigating the "Suleman matter," according to Candis Cohen, a spokeswoman for the board. Kamrava did not return phone calls to his office from CNN.
"It's crazy," said Dr. Walid Saleh, medical director of the Sher Institute for Reproductive Medicine in Dallas, Texas, noting that implanting six embryos clearly violates guidelines set by the American Society for Assisted Reproductive Medicine, which recommends implanting no more than two embryos in a woman under 35. "I don't know of anyone else who does this."
Saleh and other fertility experts say they think they know why Kamrava chose to implant so many embryos. The CDC keeps statistics on fertility doctors and their success rates, and Kamrava's is significantly below the national average.
Nationally, when doctors implant embryos, they manage to achieve a live birth 38.7 percent of the time, according to the CDC data. But Kamrava achieved a live birth 10 percent of the time, according to CDC data for his clinic.
"He has terrible statistics," says Miller. Other doctors say he had to put in a large number of embryos to get any success at all.
Miller and other experts in the fertility field say it's not talked about a lot, but Kamrava is not the only one implanting such a large number of embryos. "This is not an isolated case," says Pamela Madsen, a fertility blogger and founder of the American Fertility Association. "It's more common than you might think for a patient to stumble upon a doctor who's willing to deviate from the norm."
So, before you select a fertility doctor, do your homework. Start by clicking on the CDC's Fertility Clinic Reports page to find information for a fertility clinic you're interested in. Look for the line "percentage of cycles resulting in live births." This tells you how often a clinic was able to achieve a live birth, or in layman's terms, the clinic's "success rate."
Farther down, the line "percentage of pregnancies with triplets or more" lets you know how often a clinic had a pregnancy with high-order multiples. "Anything more than a singleton or twins is risky," Miller says. "Even twins have higher risks of having health and developmental problems. People go to the shopping mall and see double strollers and say, 'Oh, how cute.' They don't see the ones who aren't able to leave the house."
Madsen also recommends talking to other patients about their experience with fertility doctors. The groups Resolve and Fertile Thoughts both have popular online forums and discussion boards. "If you post a doctor's name and nobody's heard of him, that's a red flag," Madsen says.
To learn more about the terms you'll hear about on these Web sites and in doctor's offices, take a look at this glossary of fertility terms.
Madsen says another sign of a good fertility doctor is one who won't yield to patients' pressure to implant a large number of embryos. "Patients really need to be aware that a doctor simply pleasing them may not actually be good medical practice," she says.
Six embryos?! How to avoid a fertility fiasco - CNN.com
Actually multiple births have happened before IVF or fertility drugs existed. Twins have happened throught history although anything larger then twins were very rare until IVF.
jillio
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Twins are actually rare compared to the number of single births. Very, very rarely, triplets have been conceived naturally.
This is only the second documented case of octuplets. Neither were conceived naturally. There is a huge difference between naturally conceived twins, and this case of artificially conceived octuplets.
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My point exactly. I think we should leave reproduction to nature, we may be doing more harm than good in some cases - especially in this case!
jillio
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Most especially in this case.
Ideally speaking you are right, it would be much better if things were left to nature.
The only problem is that some mothers cannot conceieve naturally. They should be advised to adopt but I wouldn't blame anyone who took the IVF route. And I also think it would be probably more constructive to push for strict regulation on egg numbers rather then banning the practice altogether.
Nadya wasnt the only mother who was implanted with so many eggs. She isn't even the only mom who's eggs actually took. There has been a number of women in this case. The most fetuses a mother was actually pregnant with was 15 but the mother had an abortion at 4 months because of the health problems that so many fetuses were causing her.
I think we should attack this at source before we read about the world's first nontuplets, or the worlds 3rd octoplets. It bothers me that Nadya is getting attacked more often then her doctor who did this to her.
LuciaDisturbed
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I don't think it was a case of "just one more baby". She ALLOWED the doctor to implant so many embryos into her uterus, which makes it obvious that she wanted a large multiple birth. No one in their right mind would allow an IVF doctor to implant 6 embryos into their uterus knowing all the risks involved with implanting so many embryos.