The "Mainstreaming" Experience: "Isolated cases"?

This thread just further proves my points in the other thread. I can have the same opinion as another ADer, but somehow *my* opinion is because I'm "hearing" (or mostly hearing).

Seriously, people?
 
TheOracle said:
This thread just further proves my points in the other thread. I can have the same opinion as another ADer, but somehow *my* opinion is because I'm "hearing" (or mostly hearing).

Seriously, people?
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Actually, no. We have a number of hearing people on this board. And their opinion is taken perfectly seriously. Your opinion comes across with a humongous ego attached to it.

Seriously ??

Yeah.
 
TheOracle said:
^^ I totally get what you are saying. But the idea of "mainstreaming" is about making sure that students who have dhh or any disability (don't smack me for using that word!) AREN'T treated as a separate class. There's also an argument for making classrooms representatives of the real population as it there's a benefit for 'perfectly abled' students.

Mainstreaming is supposed to address the fact that able-bodied people have a history of treating those that deviate from the norm as "less intelligent", "less human", "second class", etc.

Unfortunately, people who "deviate from the norm" sometimes end up with a crappy education. :/

dhh is such a unique group because we deal with

1) Language and English as a second language
2) A disability (legal terms, people, don't flip) that may be a barrier to success (or rather, barrier to some roads)

and the question is, "how do we make sure people have equal opportunities?"

My professors would kill me, but I'm not an advocate for mainstreaming in all cases because it sometimes fails to address the social needs of a child.
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:gpost: And, right on the money....
 
AlleyCat said:
Actually, no. We have a number of hearing people on this board. And their opinion is taken perfectly seriously. Your opinion comes across with a humongous ego attached to it.

Seriously ??

Yeah.
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Well I won't apologize for being confident. :afro:

edit: then take issue with my confidence, not my hearing - or unilateral hearing, or hoh, or whatever you feel the need to label me as. if you disagree about something, then keep it to the point.
 
Bebonang said:
Why are you trolling us like this? You keep saying the "using listening and spoken language", which I hate that every time you said that over and over. You are not getting it at all. With the CIs, it is all the same like the hearing aids, so that means you want them or us to suffer trying to comprehend what the hearing person is saying. I am going to try hard to ignore you. Grrrrr! :mad:
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Okay, let's get rid of "using listening and spoken language", so that no one will make you mad, okay?

Let's get creative with nouns and adjectives synonymous to the quoted above so we can keep you happy:

*Un-mute
*Voicebox user
*Voice-user
*Throater
*Screamer
*One whose sounds actually go through the middle ears, simulating cochlea/hair cells, and sends signal to the brain and the brain understands
*Non-aphasiac
*Grokker
*No Mum!

</comical satire--no offense, hon>
 
sheila022 said:
Okay, let's get rid of "using listening and spoken language", so that no one will make you mad, okay?

Let's get creative with nouns and adjectives synonymous to the quoted above so we can keep you happy:

*Un-mute
*Voicebox user
*Voice-user
*Throater
*Screamer
*One whose sounds actually go through the middle ears, simulating cochlea/hair cells, and sends signal to the brain and the brain understands
*Non-aphasiac
*Grokker
*No Mum!

</comical satire--no offense, hon>
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:lol: Didn't anybody ever tell you about "spitters?"
 
Mister Potts said:
Explain what is disability.

What is the real population? Are you saying we're not "real"?

What is perfectly-abled?

What I'm seeing is the implication that those deviate from the norm, in other words, we are "less intelligent", "less human", "second class", etc.? ...You like tossing rubber tires and fuel into the fire, don't you?

Whether it is a legal term or not, its about the framing. And what I'm seeing here is you think we are lesser. Why or how is this?

Finally, what roads is it that we do not have access to?

Now keep this in mind.

I am human. We all are. There is no greater or lesser. We just approach things differently. I suggest you think more carefully and profoundly about what you said and how you will answer.
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I got what she was saying and she's right. The mainstream DOES place limits where it shouldn't. The mainstream environment DOES tend to hold back disabled and Dhh kids back when it was thought of to do the opposite. Some people do OK in the mainstream. I did. That is, I survived, but thrive? Not really.

I'm also hearing, but disabled, so I am coming at this from a somewhat different perspective than most here, but my experiences are pretty much the same as those who are Dhh. Isolated? Yep, I was. I didn't have the language barriers that the other deafies I knew had, but still, it was pretty stinking hard for me to make friends. Pulled out for therapies? Bingo. Therapy in school? Had to fit it in somewhere, so guess what? No recess for me. This meant that I missed out on an opportunity to be with MY PEERS.

Mainstreaming is tough when you're trying to fit into a mold that you just don't fit.
 
TheOracle said:
I'm not going to be bullied by you. You need to take what I said in context. A disability is a legal term. If it wasn't, then dhh wouldn't be covered under a whole lot 'o law ! (The workplace, anyone?)

The purpose of mainstreaming in education has been to largely address 1) the shortcomings in special education 2) help ERADICATE the notion that people who have a disability are somehow less intelligent, second class, etc., and all those other things I put IN QUOTES. Separate is not always equal. Since dhh falls under IDEA, that means you have, by legal definition, a disability.

A norm is what is used to define abnormal. Norm simply means most people fall within that population. (Or sociologically speaking, what society largely considers acceptable is a "norm".)

"Standard deviation from the norm" is a statistical term. You know that. Don't twist my words. Having a disability and being disabled are two different things. The second is of the mind.

Finally, the real population is just what I said. The population of the US. If you exclude people with disabilities (of any kind...again...look @ the law) then your classrooms aren't really representative of the population, are they?
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Again, good posting... As I said, I'm disabled. But, having said that, I don't think of all the thngs I can't do 24/7. Realistically speaking, there's really just a couple things that I categorically CAN'T do...walk and drive.

Other than that, I do pretty much everything anyone else does. I just do it a bit differently. To me, it's just a label. It's apart of me, but it's NOT my entire being. You're right. It's a state of mind. I can call myself disabled (and I do), but when people talk to me, it's the last thing they really notice; even though they see my wheelchair, ect.
 
TheOracle said:
Well I won't apologize for being confident. :afro:

edit: then take issue with my confidence, not my hearing - or unilateral hearing, or hoh, or whatever you feel the need to label me as. if you disagree about something, then keep it to the point.
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You were the one who brought hearing into this, not I.

You said "This thread just further proves my points in the other thread. I can have the same opinion as another ADer, but somehow *my* opinion is because I'm "hearing" (or mostly hearing)."

Sorry you can't find a decent excuse for your argument. Excuses don't equal confidence.
 
AlleyCat said:
You were the one who brought hearing into this, not I.

You said "This thread just further proves my points in the other thread. I can have the same opinion as another ADer, but somehow *my* opinion is because I'm "hearing" (or mostly hearing)."

Sorry you can't find a decent excuse for your argument. Excuses don't equal confidence.
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Maybe this will refresh your memory.

AlleyCat said:
TheOracle,

Simply put, you're offensive. You come across as a know-it-all.

You're hearing, and you're on a deaf forum, and you pretend to know us.

When we disagree with you it doesn't mean disagree with you for the sake of it. It's because we've lived the life of deaf people which is VASTLY different than any life you've led.

You study language for a living. Good. Glad you're enriching your knowledge. Studying it, however, doesn't equal real-life experience. Not remotely close.

So until you've walked even a minute in our footsteps, criticism, asking us to look at our reading comprehension, and calling us cocky is all entirely unnecessary. Your attitude is a joke.
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I'm allowed to think someone is cocky because I simply think they are cocky. I'm allowed to judge one's reading comprehension skills when they don't seem to understand what I just wrote. If I think you're a jerk, it's because I think you're a jerk. It has nothing to do with your hearing! Also...aren't we writing and reading on this forum?

*shrug*

If you can point to a post where I said I knew the thoughts and feelings of all deaf people, please do!!
 
If I recall, you first had problem with me because I used "speak" and "ASL" when referring to bilingualism. As someone else pointed out, saying "speaks English" and "signs ASL" can give a sort of Speech Therapist vibe...

Yet...

AlleyCat said:
(If you want to hear something funny ... )
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:eek3:

Wait - you're allowed to say that? Oh, you are? How come? Because you weren't being incendiary? Okay. :)

you need to breeeeeeeeeeeeeathe.
 
TheOracle said:
If I recall, you first had problem with me because I used "speak" and "ASL" when referring to bilingualism. As someone else pointed out, saying "speaks English" and "signs ASL" can give a sort of Speech Therapist vibe...

Yet...



:eek3:

Wait - you're allowed to say that? Oh, you are? How come? Because you weren't being incendiary? Okay. :)

you need to breeeeeeeeeeeeeathe.
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The person I was responding to is hearing. She's certainly entitled to hear something funny.

Doesn't matter. With English, you can read, write, and speak English. ASL is never spoken. It's not about semantics. It's about respecting the way a language is used, as I pointed out in later posts (e.g "She knows ASL and English," et al.) I don't think you will find a single person, deaf or hearing (e.g hearing parent of a deaf child) here that will say that ASL is ever spoken. My post only pointed out that ASL is signed, not spoken. Maybe if you understood even the slightest bit about deafness you would have a clue.

Anyhow, you want to take offense and chase down my posts, be my guest.
 
ots of people are teased! In fact, i think that the research says 90% of people say they have been bullied. It is certainly not confined to the deaf.

someone here talked about having things thrown at them in the luchroom. My little sister had gum put in her hair, twice in one week! She had naked pictures taken of her in the locker room...it goes on and on.

school often sucks, it is not just deaf people.
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faire joure, but overall the gross majority of dhh kids are not just bullied but pretty much ostracized in ways you cannot imagine! Dhh kids are notrious for having major major social issues in the mainstream. I mean god, the social issues that dhh kids go through are so major that it's a major major major theme of the Clarke Mainstream conferences.
 
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