The "Mainstreaming" Experience: "Isolated cases"?

[TheOracle]

I think some of the non-signers in this forum should experience being the only one in a social group who doesn't share the same language as the majority. Some of the majority group may show patience and use communication modifications to try to include the "only" but that only goes so far. Especially on a daily basis, year after year.

A little role reversal could open some eyes (and hearts).

Why just non signers? Why not all hearing?



Some of us have been the minority in a language group, and I don't think any of us in this thread are being unfair. Since it's impossible for the hearing to be deaf, we ask questions. We don't know if we don't ask.

 

[Jiro]

Why just non signers? Why not all hearing?

non-signers are receptive to it. I was once a non-signer.

not "all" hearing are open to it. they're quite mean and ignorant. Anybody who is deaf have encountered such person.

Some of us have been the minority in a language group, and I don't think any of us in this thread are being unfair. Since it's impossible for the hearing to be deaf, we ask questions. We don't know if we don't ask.

A lot of your questions can be answered by hanging out with deaf group

just because you have been the minority in the language group doesn't mean that same concept applies to other groups. Each group (or culture) is unique so you have to be in each group to understand it. Deaf group is not the same as Blind group. and vice versa.

 

[TheOracle]

non-signers are receptive to it. I was once a non-signer.

not "all" hearing are open to it. they're quite mean and ignorant. Anybody who is deaf have encountered such person.


A lot of your questions can be answered by hanging out with deaf group

So you are saying being the minority in a language group is a language issue, not a hearing issue?

Also...what am I gonna do...randomly ask "Hey pfh, did you ever feel like a social retard growing up?" in the middle of dinner? That doesn't make any sense.

I asked Daredevel because I wanted to know what she meant. To me, being socially stunted makes me think of Aspbergers or PDNOS or something. When she explained, then I understood it was a result of a language barrier, not some neurological upset.

 

[TheOracle]

just because you have been the minority in the language group doesn't mean that same concept applies to other groups. Each group (or culture) is unique so you have to be in each group to understand it. Deaf group is not the same as Blind group. and vice versa.

Okay, now you are editing.

So Reba should have said, "Anyone who doesn't sign should be in a group of signing people."

I never said anything about language or cultural concepts transferring. I said some of us probably have an idea (at least I do) of what it's like to catch no words, most words, or maybe even just a few.

Again, like I said in IM, I don't know what your point is...it's getting OT and I'm not going to be a moth to your flame. :P

 

[Jiro]

So you are saying being the minority in a language group is a language issue, not a hearing issue?

I wish it's a simple yes-or-no question but it isn't.

Also...what am I gonna do...randomly ask "Hey pfh, did you ever feel like a social retard growing up?" in the middle of dinner? That doesn't make any sense.

sure why not? it's a valid question.... as long as you keep an open mind and be receptive.

I asked Daredevel because I wanted to know what she meant. To me, being socially stunted makes me think of Aspbergers or PDNOS or something. When she explained, then I understood it was a result of a language barrier, not some neurological upset.

many reasons but based on majority of ADers' cases.... we were socially-stunted because we were subjected to hearing way. Because of that, we missed out a lot in life. While "normal" kids are out playing around and socializing at early age, we were subjected to hours-long of intensive auditory-speechreading training.

 

[Jiro]

Okay, now you are editing.

So Reba should have said, "Anyone who doesn't sign should be in a group of signing people."

I never said anything about language or cultural concepts transferring. I said some of us probably have an idea (at least I do) of what it's like to catch no words, most words, or maybe even just a few.

Again, like I said in IM, I don't know what your point is...it's getting OT and I'm not going to be a moth to your flame. :P

You don't need to say it. It's It's what dominates your logic from birth and you don't consciously know it. Your logic is based on oral perspective and we know it. It's not your fault. It's up to you to be receptive to our issue.

btw - my flame is just a harmless light bulb. you won't get singed

 

[KristinaB]

I think some of the non-signers in this forum should experience being the only one in a social group who doesn't share the same language as the majority. Some of the majority group may show patience and use communication modifications to try to include the "only" but that only goes so far. Especially on a daily basis, year after year.

A little role reversal could open some eyes (and hearts).

I have been in that position quite a bit over the last 2 years. I sign very little and am trying to learn. (It's a slow process for me). I go to my deaf club at least once a month and there is no voice at all. ASL only. Not easy at all. They do not like to use pen and paper. They have advised me to try and learn more before coming back.

 

[inmate23]

I sign very little and am trying to learn. (It's a slow process for me). I go to my deaf club at least once a month and there is no voice at all. ASL only. Not easy at all. They do not like to use pen and paper. They have advised me to try and learn more before coming back.

yea i no what u mean and was the i stopped going

 

[TheOracle]

non-signers are receptive to it. I was once a non-signer.

not "all" hearing are open to it. they're quite mean and ignorant. Anybody who is deaf have encountered such person.


A lot of your questions can be answered by hanging out with deaf group

just because you have been the minority in the language group doesn't mean that same concept applies to other groups. Each group (or culture) is unique so you have to be in each group to understand it. Deaf group is not the same as Blind group. and vice versa.

I have been in that position quite a bit over the last 2 years. I sign very little and am trying to learn. (It's a slow process for me). I go to my deaf club at least once a month and there is no voice at all. ASL only. Not easy at all. They do not like to use pen and paper. They have advised me to try and learn more before coming back.

Ouch. Maybe they were hoping you'd try to learn faster or something?

 

[Jiro]

I have been in that position quite a bit over the last 2 years. I sign very little and am trying to learn. (It's a slow process for me). I go to my deaf club at least once a month and there is no voice at all. ASL only. Not easy at all. They do not like to use pen and paper. They have advised me to try and learn more before coming back.

it's never easy in the first place. it wasn't easy for me either. as long as you stay strong and persistent.... it will pay off.

Took me 2 years. and it's still work in progress.

 

[KristinaB]

it's never easy in the first place. it wasn't easy for me either. as long as you stay strong and persistent.... it will pay off.

Took me 2 years. and it's still work in progress.

Thanks! It's been a few years, but not real persistent. I have been more persistent in the last 1-2 years. Now, if I could just get over the self-confidence issues, I might try doing a short video to show some people that I do really know some ASL.

 

[Reba]

Why just non signers? Why not all hearing?

Because some hearing people can sign, and some deaf people don't sign. That's why I emphasized non signing.

Some of us have been the minority in a language group, and I don't think any of us in this thread are being unfair. Since it's impossible for the hearing to be deaf, we ask questions. We don't know if we don't ask.

I didn't mention any unfairness.

 

[shel90]

No, Shel, you misunderstand what I meant. That is a language issue. You're not getting all of the information so it results in miscommunication. It's an auditory language issue. It's just that, unlike other language issues, it doesn't really get better.

So, if I'm with someone who is signing, I'll have some delayed processing at first and I'll easily mix things up. If I'm in a Spanish speaking group, I have a hard time catching a lot of the language because everything goes so quickly it's not enunciated. After awhile, it gets better and easier.

For the deaf, it usually doesn't. Or rather, it eventually hits a brick wall.

I Disagree because once you learn the new language you won't have that problem anymore but no matter how fluent we get with a spoken language we will always have this issue.

 

[Beowulf]

Because some hearing people can sign, and some deaf people don't sign. That's why I emphasized non signing.


I didn't mention any unfairness.

No unfairness. I take a hard look at how I sign and how it is translated by interpreters, and there is no unfairness at all. Sigh.

 

[shel90]

Because some hearing people can sign, and some deaf people don't sign. That's why I emphasized non signing.


I didn't mention any unfairness.

agreed, non signers is more appropriate than saying hearing people due to this very reason alone

 

[Jiro]

Thanks! It's been a few years, but not real persistent. I have been more persistent in the last 1-2 years. Now, if I could just get over the self-confidence issues, I might try doing a short video to show some people that I do really know some ASL.

keep up!

 

[deafbajagal]

This thread is kind of jumping all over the place.

Language barriers can lead social issues just as much as auditory-based barriers. That's a given. Many social skills are naturally acquired by children - but because I cannot hear, I missed out on learning appropriate social cues until I was directly instructed. For example, a hearing person clears his throat (ahem) which can mean various things, depending on the situation: "excuse me", "shh, there's someone near, " "it's your turn," etc. I don't hear it so it doesn't registered with me.

Another example - when my child plays volleyball, I watch her and cheer her on. Many deaf parents stick together and talk during the game - missing a lot of their children's actions. Many deaf people do this at ball games...I personally find it rude. I'm there to support my child and to give her emotional encouragment, etc. Yet, I'm the one who's an oddball and probably called a snob. That's an example of a social miscue within my own culture.

Eye contact is a big issue...I get irritated when I'm talking and a person breaks eye contact. That's SO rude to me...but that's a cultural issue.

When a person looks at his watch while you are talking, that's a social cue he's telling you he's pressed for time (or bored). When a woman grabs her purse, she's giving the cue that she's ready to go. Etc.

 

[deafdyke]

Many of us have shared horror stories while growing up mainstreamed (not all of us, but some) but things have changed. From all that I read these days, the schools have changed, the programs have changed, the methods have changed. Even FJ has said so. (Remember, "but that's not how it is today" posts...) You CAN get through school just fine without having perfect hearing as long as you have access to communication (whether that be via ASL, CART, HAs, CIs, etc.) and being in the right programs. Parents are far more educated today about choices and placement and options.

On the other hand, That's the key.....the right programs/placement. You're talking like we were in school before there were formal mainstream programs. Solotairing is still really common unfortunatly, and parents still think that all their kids need is minimal accomondations, and they'll get all the advantages of being mainstreamed, all along the line. (meaning they'll be minimal accomondaiton mainstreamed from kindergarten to 12) Parents still have to deal with biased information and teachers and schools who have NO EFFING CLUE how to educate kids with low incidence disabilties.

 

[TheOracle]

I Disagree because once you learn the new language you won't have that problem anymore but no matter how fluent we get with a spoken language we will always have this issue.

How do you disagree? I said what you just said.

 

[deafskeptic]

This thread is kind of jumping all over the place.

Language barriers can lead social issues just as much as auditory-based barriers. That's a given. Many social skills are naturally acquired by children - but because I cannot hear, I missed out on learning appropriate social cues until I was directly instructed. For example, a hearing person clears his throat (ahem) which can mean various things, depending on the situation: "excuse me", "shh, there's someone near, " "it's your turn," etc. I don't hear it so it doesn't registered with me.

Another example - when my child plays volleyball, I watch her and cheer her on. Many deaf parents stick together and talk during the game - missing a lot of their children's actions. Many deaf people do this at ball games...I personally find it rude. I'm there to support my child and to give her emotional encouragment, etc. Yet, I'm the one who's an oddball and probably called a snob. That's an example of a social miscue within my own culture.

Eye contact is a big issue...I get irritated when I'm talking and a person breaks eye contact. That's SO rude to me...but that's a cultural issue.

When a person looks at his watch while you are talking, that's a social cue he's telling you he's pressed for time (or bored). When a woman grabs her purse, she's giving the cue that she's ready to go. Etc.

Yep. Because the deaf person is so dependant on vision, if a deaf person refuses to look at you, it's a sure sign he/she is ignoring you. I find that very annoying.