The Legal System

[backerman]

This thread is inspired on something that has happened recently which got me thinking about our legal system, In every country we all have different laws, and even in certain states (in countries like America) They have different laws to their state or country than others. What do you feel about your legal system? Do you feel it provides justice for many things? Do you feel that there are too many loopholes for criminals who commit serious offences and ruin peoples lives to get away with what they have done, what are your general opinions on YOUR legal system.

I have to say I think the Legal system fails quite badly, very often, they try their best but some people really get away with some disgusting things, some get punished but their sentence for the serious crime is a joke (take for example just yesterday I was reading that a 12 week year old child was raped by a man, The man could be out in 2 years) So I'm not a big fan of our legal system if I'm being honest and feel it could use some improvement.

I just want to know your opinions on your legal system though it might be an interesting topic that could get everyone thinking.

 

[diehardbiker]

IMHO some legal areas works so well. Especially when it comes to 12 jurors involved. The only problem in some areas where the judge made the final decision, and I think is wrong! There are times when Judges made real terrible decision, like sending kids back to abusive families! Or let drunks go on street and happen to go across the street to drink in a bar with probation in effect! Another good example, if you know the movie called "44 minutes" Well, that movie proves that judge made terrible terrible terrible mistake by what? Letting two criminals keep the machine guns intended to sell to cover the legal cost, instead these two crooks decided to rob bank with these machine guns, with well over 1,000 rounds fired against everybody even police officers. What's worse is that these two crooks wears bullet proof clothes! That is why cops can not take them out for 44 long minutes! Finally first crook shot himself, then second got his feet shot by a cop and he dropped, then cops let him bleed to death. So, only 2 fatalies were these two crooks! Nobody got killed, but plenty got hurt.
I think we need to set new law that allows judges to be sued for wrongful judgemental! That way, this would help judge THINK hard before making stupid judgements.

 

[Endymion]

IMHO some legal areas works so well.

DHB65, I agree with you!

America actually has a fairly good legal system. This is true if you consider how terrible, shoddy, and corrupt many other legal systems are. Our system is derived and evolved from the British and is centered around "innocent until proven guilty."

The way criminal procedure is structured unfortunately allows some criminals to get away with diabolical acts, but if you consider that many innocent people who might otherwise be jailed are spared (thus allowing the criminal to go free anyway, making the point moot), it becomes apparent there's a certain tradeoff between jailing people who look like they're the bad guy and jailing people who we can prove "beyond doubt" that they are the perpetrator.

Personally, I'm happy under the American system (but like you, I encourage improvement) and I wouldn't want to be subject to, say, the legal system of Indonesia:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/low/world/asia-pacific/2147019.stm

I am certain Eyeth can shed a lot more light on the subject than I can. I'm not a lawyer. I am just a madman who wants to achieve global dominion and keep all Crown Prince Abdullah's oil fields for himself.

 

[Cousin Vinny]

I think we need to set new law that allows judges to be sued for wrongful judgemental! That way, this would help judge THINK hard before making stupid judgements.

I disagree strongly with this statement. If that were the case, judges everywhere would be very afraid of rendering their impartial judgement in many cases. It could even wreck the legal system where impartiality is paramount.

That said, not all judges are 'tenured'. For example, here in Florida, some judges are elected, after being appointed by the Governor. If, for some reason, the judges are performing poorly or below expectations, they can be voted out of office.

 

[diehardbiker]

So, are you saying that judges can get away when they forced abused kids to their abusive familes and get killed? This is happening already!!! What kind of justice is that?

I disagree strongly with this statement. If that were the case, judges everywhere would be very afraid of rendering their impartial judgement in many cases. It could even wreck the legal system where impartiality is paramount.

That said, not all judges are 'tenured'. For example, here in Florida, some judges are elected, after being appointed by the Governor. If, for some reason, the judges are performing poorly or below expectations, they can be voted out of office.

 

[Cousin Vinny]

The true bedrock of America's legal system is due to its inherent adversarial nature, with an impartial judge acting as a 'referee' of sorts. Granted, it's not a perfect system, but I sincerely believe it's better than other legal systems currently in existence elsewhere in the world.

If you happen to be 'disgusted' with a recent spate of decisions, you may take comfort in the fact that someone is already fighting for you and have lost the case at that juncture. Just hope that this someone can do a better job on the appellate level, or that controversial cases get settled, etc. Or you may not like what this someone is doing and you can voice your displeasure at the polling station. (Most State's Attorney Generals are in elected offices.)

 

[Cousin Vinny]

So, are you saying that judges can get away when they forced abused kids to their abusive familes and get killed? This is happening already!!! What kind of justice is that?

Sadly, yes, the judges can 'get away' with it. But in the end, if this judge is electable, he/she will probably be held accountable for these adverse decisions and lose his/her job.

I know it isn't perfect, but I'd rather have the current system, even if there were tragic decisions that cost lives of innocent children, than having a system where judges are held liable for their decision-making and the whole legal system is compromised.

 

[diehardbiker]

Still, I felt that some judges should be held liable for making bad judgements.

Sadly, yes, the judges can 'get away' with it. But in the end, if this judge is electable, he/she will probably be held accountable for these adverse decisions and lose his/her job.

I know it isn't perfect, but I'd rather have the current system, even if there were tragic decisions that cost lives of innocent children, than having a system where judges are held liable for their decision-making and the whole legal system is compromised.

 

[diehardbiker]

Wanted to add to the point to my discussion. Some judges can make bad judgement and not be severe at all. Those who made severe judgements should be held liable. For example sending battered kids back to abusive parents. That is, Judge SHOULD HAVE KNOWN BETTER! So, judges should be held liable for grossly neglicting the welfare of citizen.

years ago, doctors generally did grossly job and ignore the welfare of patients. Now that there is lawsuits going on, doctors now are much more careful than it was before. So, I bet it would have similiar effect on judges.

 

[Taylor]

Excellent discussion....

For the most part, we have a decent legal system compared to other countries. It has some really good points as well as some really bad points.

I've seen people get arrested, get processed and sent to the judge. The officer goes back to the station to take care of all the paperwork and when he's done, he leaves the station and the same jackass that was arrested is already out. Its rare that it happens, but can turnaround that quickly.

I know as a police officer, I respect our legal system but get pretty frustrated with. Its 5% of the people out there causing harm to the other 95% and judges keep letting these people go free. I'm not referring to small crimes like smoking pot, but crimes against people (theft, burglary, etc). I see the same people in our city getting locked up for the same crimes over and over again. They are released and go back out and do it again and the cycle will continue.

In my area, most of the judges here are pretty decent but a few have made some very stupid decisions that I cannot even understand their line of thinking. It gets very frustrating as an officer but the only thing I can do is to keep going after the bad guys and hope that I get him before he breaks into your house.

 

[Cheri]

I'm with diehardbiker on this one, I don't agree with the legal system, because high power judges can get away with anything they want, they have all this power like a king, we have none, they undermine our rights to provide evidences, Let me tell you something so surprising if you haven't heard yet that Judge can keep out any evidences he can persuaded to keep out, How is that fair? Where's our rights to show proof? I'm not saying all judges are like that, some are and they should be taken action for their mistakes whatever justice was served wrongfully. I feel that justice belongs to us people not judges themselves. They owe it all to all of us to make sure justice is done the right way where everyone is happy. Sending a child back to a home where abuse was taken place, is not a bright idea. I don't believe in second chances with that situation. We are talking about life and death situation here, no matter how certain "sorry" those abusive parents are in getting second chance, It not going to stop and it won't either.

Bottom line is, If we make a mistake we get punished, If the judges make mistakes, they don't get punished. How is that fair?

 

[Cousin Vinny]

they undermine our rights to provide evidences, Let me tell you something so surprising if you haven't heard yet that Judge can keep out any evidences he can persuaded to keep out, How is that fair? Where's our rights to show proof?

Well, the Federal Judges have to follow this body of law;
Federal Rules of Evidence

The State Judges also have to observe their state's own Rules of Evidence in guiding their decision-making when it comes to evidentiary issues. Under limited cases, even Federal Judges have to follow their own state's rules, too.

If a Judge has to exclude evidence according to established precedent and relevant rules of evidence, then that's how it works, however unfair it is. Without Rules of Evidence to follow, Judges would be presiding over 'kangaroo courts' where anything goes and things get bogged down, emotions get inflamed and judgements clouded, or just be plain confusing.

I feel that justice belongs to us people not judges themselves.

Consider what you mean by this statement. 200 years ago, people resolved their disputes by means of dueling. Alexander Hamilton, you may know him on your ten dollar bill, died by such means. Witches were burned to the stake in Salem, NH. People of color, in the south, when accused of particularly heinous crimes, ran the risk of a public lynching as early as 100 years ago. Jack Ruby killed JFK's killer before the U.S. had a chance to connect the dots regarding their beloved president's assassination. The list goes on...

However, the idea of justice is defined by the public. For example, computer crimes are relatively new. The judiciary did not invent these crimes so they can charge them. Your elected representatives have decided that computer crime must be curbed, specific penalities outlined, etc. and then it's up to the judiciary to sort things out over due time. In a way, through your elected representatives, justice does belong to the people and the judiciary is an instrument of the people in achieving their desired means of justice.

Sending a child back to a home where abuse was taken place, is not a bright idea. I don't believe in second chances with that situation.

As far as children go, the overriding standard used by the judiciary is 'the best interests of the child.' Obviously, placing the child back to his abusive surroundings would not be in his best interest. I don't know what happened to these tragic cases where children are still maimed, scarred or killed, despite the judiciary's best efforts in determining their best interests. Hopefully over time, this process will only improve and children of the future will be that much better off.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts about the legal system here in the U.S. I know it isn't perfect, but it's what we have now, better or worse. There's a trend of 'activist' judges and mainstream people are increasingly getting fed up with their decisions. There is a backlash and indirectly, this is how Bush was re-elected to his second term as a President of the U.S.

 

[Cousin Vinny]

I know as a police officer, I respect our legal system but get pretty frustrated with. Its 5% of the people out there causing harm to the other 95% and judges keep letting these people go free.

I can see how frustrating it would be for law enforcement. Due to the adversarial nature of the legal system, recidivist offenders usually can get out of jail and back into society so quickly after law enforcement has done their job.

I, for one, appreciate what you do for your community and ensuring safety for all of its members. I hope you won't feel like this guy, going after repeat offenders like they were boulders. In the end, usually their recidivist tendencies will land them hard and lengthy time.

 

[nicolas]

do any of you ever done sue interpreter ?

hi guys


i want to know if anyone ever tried or failed or won case to sue interpreter ? if any i would like to know it is interesting for me so i can document it. thanks


Nicolas

 

[Yiffzer]

America actually has a fairly good legal system. This is true if you consider how terrible, shoddy, and corrupt many other legal systems are. Our system is derived and evolved from the British and is centered around "innocent until proven guilty."

Actually, the British law revolves around "Guilty until proven innocent."

-J.

 

[Reba]

... Witches were burned to the stake in Salem, NH. ..

Do you mean Salem, Massachusetts? There were never any witches burned at the stake there.