The Audists are coming for you...

jillio said:
It is a comparison to the same mind set, not a comparison to the actual activities. I actually had relatives die in the ovens, and I don't find the comparison offensive at all. In fact, I use it. A Jewish boss I had made the comparison on his own in a discussion of audism many years ago. Viktor Frankl, a survivor of several concentration camps, has used his experience with such to make connections to many different experiences in life.
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So you DO make the comparison of Audism to Nazi propaganda?

To me, Nazi propaganda is the belief that certain races and types of people were bad for humanity and it's best to eliminate them completely.

To me, audism is the misguided notion that it's better for deaf people to become like hearing people. Audism elicits pity for deaf people. Audism believes that deaf people would be better off with their lives if they could hear.

Not quite the same to me. Now I understand where the similarity lies between audism and nazi-crap, which is simply: the belief of the majority (or even just a group) forces their beliefs on others and makes others CHANGE for the sake of their beliefs.

However.. this applies to almost every single individual who is engaged in a debate, especially a political debate. Everyone is forced to follow current policies of the country. So in a political debate, you are arguing your beliefs on how the government should be run, therefore, dictate how things should operate. (Yes, technically, they can leave the country, but it's very hard to do that for numerous reasons. )
 
Daredevel7 said:
So you DO make the comparison of Audism to Nazi propaganda?

To me, Nazi propaganda is the belief that certain races and types of people were bad for humanity and it's best to eliminate them completely.

To me, audism is the misguided notion that it's better for deaf people to become like hearing people. Audism elicits pity for deaf people. Audism believes that deaf people would be better off with their lives if they could hear.

Not quite the same to me. Now I understand where the similarity lies between audism and nazi-crap, which is simply: the belief of the majority (or even just a group) forces their beliefs on others and makes others CHANGE for the sake of their beliefs.

However.. this applies to almost every single individual who is engaged in a debate, especially a political debate. Everyone is forced to follow current policies of the country. So in a political debate, you are arguing your beliefs on how the government should be run, therefore, dictate how things should operate. (Yes, technically, they can leave the country, but it's very hard to do that for numerous reasons. )
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The intention of Nazi propoganda was to marginalize, and dispose of if possible, a group of people that another group considered inferior. The intention of Audist propoganda is to marginalize, and get rid of of possible, a group of people that another group considers inferior. Those are the comparisons.

Nazi propoganda arose from the mindset that one group had the ability to determine the worth and viability of another group. Audism has, at it fundamental core, the belief that one group has the ability to determine the worth and viability of another group.

Nazi propganda was very up front and out there. Much easier to recognize the enemy. Audism is much more subtle. Not as easy to recognize. But still, there are valid sociological comparisons.
 
But the same can be for how I perceive the Tea party, I consider them "inferior" and I want to get rid of them from the political scene and those notions because I believe they are wrong.

Nazi comparison?
 
Wirelessly posted (droid)

Saying that deaf people shouldn't reproduce suggests genocide. And I've heard people say this.
 
Daredevel7 said:
But the same can be for how I perceive the Tea party, I consider them "inferior" and I want to get rid of them from the political scene and those notions because I believe they are wrong.

Nazi comparison?
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Are you actively working to do that?
 
netrox said:
So deaf parents who implant their deaf children are audists?
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Where did that come from? Implantation has little to do with audism. Audism was prevalent before CIs were even thought of.
 
jillio said:
Where did that come from? Implantation has little to do with audism. Audism was prevalent before CIs were even thought of.
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Exactly. The intent behind implanting CIs could be said to be a product of audism.
 
Daredevel7 said:
I am pretty sure he didn't write the last two lines. ;)

I do think it is in poor taste if deaf people DID tell others that they identify with those who are jailed, tortured, killed, and so on. Example: saying that audism/hearing people who are for CIs are practically the same as the Nazis/Nazi propaganda.

However, that is NOT what the OP is saying. This first post has a good underlying message, which is simply: Speak out.
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Then....
17,000 deaf people were sterilized in Germany in the 1930's.
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Source:
Deaf Children in the Holocaust

Recent past....
By the mid-1920s, more than 3,000 people had been sterilized against their wills. These included the homeless, orphans, epileptics, the blind and deaf. Also sterilized were those who scored poorly on IQ tests, who were diagnosed as being "feebleminded."
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However, involuntary sterilizations continued in this country through the late 1970s. May 2, 2002, marked the 75th anniversary of the shameful Buck v. Bell decision, which has never been overruled and was cited in a federal appeals case as recently as last year.
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Source:
Sterilization of America


Now.....
The affirmation of the infirmity understanding of deafness leads to the search for new and better technologies to address deafness, including stem cell research and gene transfer therapies that aim to ultimately eliminate the birth of deaf infants. This work is done partially to eliminate the stigma of deafness. These advanced techniques, if “successful,” will have the effect of regulating and eventually eliminating Deaf culture, language, and Deaf people altogether. These attempts are seen by those adopting a cultural understanding of deafness as parallel to eugenics or genocide. Although the term eugenics implies the reduction or elimination of deafness through compulsory exogamous marriage and sterilization or through gene therapy, genocide evokes a more active attempt to eliminate a group of people or a culture. The word genocide recalls vast pogroms and systematic killing, however, the slow elimination of a minority group can occur by the destruction of the distinct elements that bind the collectivity, such as language, customs, and art forms. Because the infirmity model of deafness aims to eliminate the need for American Sign Language (ASL), the loss of this language could result in the loss of the culture itself. In this way, language death, or glottocide, can lead to the loss of cultural identity, and may represent the denial of the basic human and civil rights of children to speak their native language.
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Source:
Cochlear Implants: Miracle Technology or Cultural Genocide? » Sociology Lens
 
And dr.phil thinks we're just imaging it to be fashionable? Get real!
 
I am real-what is "fashionable about nazi genocide"?

Implanted A B Harmony activated Aug/07
 
Buffalo said:
Then....


Source:
Deaf Children in the Holocaust

Recent past....




Source:
Sterilization of America


Now.....


Source:
Cochlear Implants: Miracle Technology or Cultural Genocide? » Sociology Lens
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Yes. Thought someone would bring that up. I thought about it, but that was more than 50 years ago. I am just going to ignore the cultural genocide aspect, because that is just speculation. I see that there were recent cases of injustice but there are also recent cases of women being stoned. There are always nutjobs out there. Almost EVERY SINGLE minority group has had at least several members who have experienced extreme injustice. Such as black people, gay people, even women! All I am saying is.... looking at it from the big picture.... I personally don't think it is justified to compare deaf people with those who were hated by the Nazi. If it is, then it is also justified for ANY minority to be compared to the Nazi victims.

I've stated my opinion but won't keep pushing it (unless someone asks me questions) because I believe that people have the right to say whatever they want as long it doesn't harm others. Obviously, the original post is meant to "empower" the deaf community, and that's just fine with me. I personally just am not moved by it, only by the original poem and what I perceive to be the original intent: Speak out.
 
Is it strange to have missed the largest group- the 6 million Jews-re Holocaust?

Implanted A B Harmony activated Aug/07
 
Daredevel7 said:
Yes. Thought someone would bring that up. I thought about it, but that was more than 50 years ago. I am just going to ignore the cultural genocide aspect, because that is just speculation. I see that there were recent cases of injustice but there are also recent cases of women being stoned. There are always nutjobs out there. Almost EVERY SINGLE minority group has had at least several members who have experienced extreme injustice. Such as black people, gay people, even women! All I am saying is.... looking at it from the big picture.... I personally don't think it is justified to compare deaf people with those who were hated by the Nazi. If it is, then it is also justified for ANY minority to be compared to the Nazi victims.

I've stated my opinion but won't keep pushing it (unless someone asks me questions) because I believe that people have the right to say whatever they want as long it doesn't harm others. Obviously, the original post is meant to "empower" the deaf community, and that's just fine with me. I personally just am not moved by it, only by the original poem and what I perceive to be the original intent: Speak out.
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You think the genocide in the Holocaust is all speculation??? Even after Jillio said that she lost her Jewish ancestors in Holocaust?

The Deaf people compared the audists with Nazis because the behavior in both groups are the same. The Deaf people can related with the Jewish people who went thru the Holocaust. The Deaf people can related to black people, etc. We need to stop this kind of behavior by shaming the audists (and whoever is enforcing the eugenic policy and the likes) until they stop doing that.
 
Buffalo said:
You think the genocide in the Holocaust is all speculation??? Even after Jillio said that she lost her Jewish ancestors in Holocaust?

The Deaf people compared the audists with Nazis because the behavior in both groups are the same. The Deaf people can related with the Jewish people who went thru the Holocaust. The Deaf people can related to black people, etc. We need to stop this kind of behavior by shaming the audists (and whoever is enforcing the eugenic policy and the likes) until they stop doing that.
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Sigh....

Of course NOT. I'm actually kinda sad that you thought I'd think that. I said CULTURAL genocide, not just genocide. You posted a link that said "Cochlear Implants: Miracle Technology or Cultural Genocide?". I said that I wasn't going to talk about that because it's an opinion, speculation. It was talking about the POSSIBLE FUTURE, not the past nor even the present. So that's why I ignored it for this debate.

Now that's explained (I hope).

I doubt shaming the audists will make a difference. I have more faith in educating them. Are you saying that Deaf people can relate to pretty much any minority?
 
Wirelessly posted (droid)

Yes, oppressed groups can relate because of their relative status. If a person lacks empathy, she won't relate, and she'll adopt the hierarchy as defined by the majority group, except she'll move her minority class to the top of the hierarchy. Basic sociology concept
 
sallylou said:
Wirelessly posted (droid)

Yes, oppressed groups can relate because of their relative status. If a person lacks empathy, she won't relate, and she'll adopt the hierarchy as defined by the majority group, except she'll move her minority class to the top of the hierarchy. Basic sociology concept
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But that is my point. The aspect where deaf people are "similar" to the victims of the Holocaust applies for many, if not all, minority groups. That's why I like the poem by itself, because it applies for MANY people who are oppressed. And many people TODAY are oppressed out of sheer hate, not from simply being uneducated.

Most of the time when I speak out as a deaf person, people change their minds easily.

Most of the time when I speak out as a bisexual person, people still don't change their minds and still think I am going to hell, going through a phase, or am a whore.

See why I can't relate? But that's just me. Looks like people enjoy the the OP and that's just fine with me. It's just not for me.
 
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