Technological progress: better hearing than normal hearing

It's amazing what potentially can be done. So many things that now are fairly commonplace were once considered impossible, unethical, pipe dreams, and so forth. Things like major organ transplants, like heart and lungs. Surgery on embryos still in the womb. Prosthetic legs that allow people to run, ski, and participate in other athletic activities.

CIs are still in their infancy in terms of what they might become within the next generation. I wouldn't be surprised if they keep getting better and better, as both the electronics and the surgical techniques continue to improve.

If they ever get to the point where they can more faithfully replicate normal human hearing, I'd call that major success. Super-hearing might or might not be possible, but I'd guess it's very possible that the research for "super-hearing" might help improve the electronics to get to more faithful sound reproduction at "normal" levels. Something like shooting for the stars in order to reach the moon.
 
I know there is ongoing research in the use of infrared light to stimulate nerve endings. This would allow much faster signaling than is currently possible with electricity. As it stands now, every CI is intentionally slowed down to allow the electricity to dissipate before signaling again. This creates a choppy sound that takes some time to get used to.

I'm not sure we are going to need to worry about super humans for a very long time. I suspect that when the technology improves to that point, most people are not going to want to go through surgery to get those improvements. One interesting thought, the military might want to improve their soldiers. Laws might need to be put in place to prevent that.
 
kokonut said:
Yet, our cochlea is limited in range on the frequency it is able to detect. That's the physical limitation but nothing is said about tapping directly into the auditory cortex of the brain.
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The CI already taps into the auditory cortex via stimulation of the 8th cranial nerve. It bypasses the cochlear function completely as it is.

Are you (God, tell me you aren't) referring to stimulating the auditory cortex without stimulating the 8th cranial nerve?
 
Cheetah said:
I know there is ongoing research in the use of infrared light to stimulate nerve endings. This would allow much faster signaling than is currently possible with electricity. As it stands now, every CI is intentionally slowed down to allow the electricity to dissipate before signaling again. This creates a choppy sound that takes some time to get used to.

I'm not sure we are going to need to worry about super humans for a very long time. I suspect that when the technology improves to that point, most people are not going to want to go through surgery to get those improvements. One interesting thought, the military might want to improve their soldiers. Laws might need to be put in place to prevent that.
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And it does that for a very good reason. Transduction. Without transduction, there is nothing for the brain to receive and process.
 
Warning *lecture* Warning

jillio said:
No. Transducing electrical signal from either normal hearing mechanisms or CI into chemical signals that the brain can receive and interpret.
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When I was young, my brother and I decided to test the electrical fence by the barn. So... we grabbed a stick and touched it... nothing. okay, we dipped the stick half way into the water trough and then touched the wet end to the electrical wire... still nothing. Then I decided to touch the wet part of the stick while it was still touching the wire. OH MY GOD!!! I never jumped so high before in my life.

My point is, the human body is primarily made up of water. When electricity touches water it spreads out a bit. Something as week as the CI will leave a very small foot print. But if you keep applying electricity that foot print expands. The more it expands, the more nerve endings it touches (and stimulates). Thus the CI will rest that electrode to allow the electricity to go away before stimulating it again.

They use different techniques to give a more fluent hearing, but at the end of the day, they all are limited in how many times they can stimulate one point in a given amount of time. Maybe somebody (not me) will figure out how to improve this even more.
 
Cheetah said:
When I was young, my brother and I decided to test the electrical fence by the barn. So... we grabbed a stick and touched it... nothing. okay, we dipped the stick half way into the water trough and then touched the wet end to the electrical wire... still nothing. Then I decided to touch the wet part of the stick while it was still touching the wire. OH MY GOD!!! I never jumped so high before in my life.

My point is, the human body is primarily made up of water. When electricity touches water it spreads out a bit. Something as week as the CI will leave a very small foot print. But if you keep applying electricity that foot print expands. The more it expands, the more nerve endings it touches (and stimulates). Thus the CI will rest that electrode to allow the electricity to go away before stimulating it again.

They use different techniques to give a more fluent hearing, but at the end of the day, they all are limited in how many times they can stimulate one point in a given amount of time. Maybe somebody (not me) will figure out how to improve this even more.
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I doubt it. Even the nerves and the brain take that break in between electrical impulses. It is not a matter of stimulating more nerve endings. It is a matter of stimulating those nerve endings leading specifially to minuscule points in the brain. This can vary from individual to individual. The best any mechanical device can do is approximate.
 
aren't there actual diseases and other health crises that money could be spent on?
 
jillio said:
I doubt it. Even the nerves and the brain take that break in between electrical impulses. It is not a matter of stimulating more nerve endings. It is a matter of stimulating those nerve endings leading specifially to minuscule points in the brain. This can vary from individual to individual. The best any mechanical device can do is approximate.
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Yes they do rest, but in the cochlea something interesting happens. Multiple nerves are responsible for the same frequency. This allows them to alternate. I have no clue how they do this but I suspect its similar to how they cancel out frequency leakage (in "normal" hearing). Almost like a nerve in a cluster saying "I got this one guys". While that nerve is recovering the next nerve can carry the message.

I'm sure there is a really good and detailed scientific explination in how the cochlea works, but I am not a scientist and can only share my understanding of the subject. I honestly hope I am not sharing miss-information, but I don't think I am. Perhaps my terminology is not right, but the concept is sound. (whoops, pun was not intended on that last word)
 
One additional note: I suspect the electrical stimulation of the nerve endings in the cochlea messes up the normal functioning of the nerve endings. Resulting in a bundle of nerves responding at the same time each time.
 
jillio said:
The CI already taps into the auditory cortex via stimulation of the 8th cranial nerve. It bypasses the cochlear function completely as it is.

Are you (God, tell me you aren't) referring to stimulating the auditory cortex without stimulating the 8th cranial nerve?
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The ABI already does that.
 
AJWSmith said:
I've carefully researched CIs and am open to the idea of having one. But the hard fact is that what you can hear via the latest CIs are nowhere near what a normal* ear hears. I'm not sure they ever will. For example a normal* ear has around 15,000 hair cells to send sound information to the brain. The current generation of CIs have a mere 24 electrodes to do the same job.
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OK. That is why CIs are not too much fun yet. I have always wondered why formerly deaf people were not entirely satisfactory. But one day that may change.

AJWSmith said:
CI is a cure for deafness in the way two wooden sticks are a cure for missing legs. Sure I can "walk" again, but don't tell me that I can walk like a normal* person.
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Ha, ha... But only for now. future technology = aspiration
 
Deaf patients without an intact auditory nerve may be helped by the next generation of auditory prostheses: surface or penetrating auditory brainstem implants that bypass the auditory nerve and directly stimulate auditory processing centers in the brainstem.
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Sending Sound to the Brain
 
Cheetah said:
When I was young, my brother and I decided to test the electrical fence by the barn. So... we grabbed a stick and touched it... nothing. okay, we dipped the stick half way into the water trough and then touched the wet end to the electrical wire... still nothing. Then I decided to touch the wet part of the stick while it was still touching the wire. OH MY GOD!!! I never jumped so high before in my life.

My point is, the human body is primarily made up of water. When electricity touches water it spreads out a bit. Something as week as the CI will leave a very small foot print. But if you keep applying electricity that foot print expands. The more it expands, the more nerve endings it touches (and stimulates). Thus the CI will rest that electrode to allow the electricity to go away before stimulating it again.

They use different techniques to give a more fluent hearing, but at the end of the day, they all are limited in how many times they can stimulate one point in a given amount of time. Maybe somebody (not me) will figure out how to improve this even more.
Click to expand...

Ohhh that could be a good lesson for my upcoming Chemistry Unit for my 3rd graders.
 
Jazzberry said:
Whether this would be ethical or not, even if the person with the CI agreed to the experiment, I don't know.
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I can see the ethical aspects of it. However, I don't see it being a huge fence issue if it is available to everyone.
 
HH scientist said:
I am not an audiologist or anything. I think that we have to understand how the nervous system works properly before making cochlear implants useful. As far as I understand, no cochlear implant has ever been better than two normal ears
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Totally agree. How can a brain that has evolved for a million years understand new sounds. Perhaps we have evolved enough to understand it?
 
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