Supporting Islam

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netrox said:
What's the question? I said I have no intention to become a scholar as it has NO bearing to what the Koran ITSELF says. No amount of rationalization can "gloss" over the atrocities in the Koran. The only source I read was the Koran ITSELF and nothing else. Their verses are enough for me to say that it's a wicked book.
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Can you stop babbling and answer the questions? It's really sad that you make no effort to answer these simple questions. Evasive, aren't you?

How long have you been researching Islam for?
Did you research Islam with an objective point of view (i.e. neutral)?
What type of sources did you use?
Do you know of Islam's history?
Are you aware of the exceptions within rules in Islam?

I'm beginning to doubt that you did read the entire Qur'an. If you did, you have yet to prove it. Did you simply ignore the positive verses that changed the conditions of Arabia centuries ago?
 
How long have you been researching Islam for?
Did you research Islam with an objective point of view (i.e. neutral)?
What type of sources did you use?
Do you know of Islam's history?
Are you aware of the exceptions within rules in Islam?
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Once again, I said I HAVE NO INTENTION TO BECOME A SCHOLAR. I know nothing about the events happening OUTSIDE The Koran. I am talking about the Koran ITSELF.

Same with the Bible. I point out problems with Christian's interpretations of NT and Jews as well with their Torah.
 
Then you know nothing. It's that simple, Netrox. Don't try to point out "problems" when you know nothing. I'll ask you a simple question:

Why were these verses condemning the Jews, Christians, and Disbelievers?

It is easy to point out a "problem" yet it is difficult to prove that it is a "problem" if you have no knowledge of why or how to do so. We all go through that once in a while. We become overly confident with our comprehension level that we can easily point out things that appear to be wrong. But ah! It isn't wrong. It is ourselves that is wrong. ;)
 
Why were these verses condemning the Jews, Christians, and Disbelievers?
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No, I don't know but one thing for sure, they made it clear - they hate them and wished them nothing but hell and eternal condemnation. Why do you have to rationalize on why they do that? There is simply NO JUSTIFICATION for those verses.. nada.

However, I'd like to hear your defense.
 
I am not sure what they mean in Islam, because we have a verse like this:

Luk 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

It is easy to think that Jesus expect you to hate your family, but actually, he doesn't because as you continue to study the bible, it says to love the sinner, and hate the sin and things like that. This particular verse just trying to say to love God with all your heart, more than your family. Your family shouldn't be above God. Afterall, if you believe in God, it is He that provided you the family.
 
netrox said:
No, I don't know but one thing for sure, they made it clear - they hate them and wished them nothing but hell and eternal condemnation. Why do you have to rationalize on why they do that? There is simply NO JUSTIFICATION for those verses.. nada.

However, I'd like to hear your defense.
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Netrox, if you don't know, then shut up. Really. The fact you're so ignorant and claim there's no rationalization to these verses prove you're so stupid. I will not waste my "defending" Islam because you make yourself look like quite the fool. Besides, God explained:

"Why preach ye to a folk whom Allah is about to destroy or punish with an awful doom?" 7:164

Aww, Netrox. I'm sorry if that was a threat... :roll: Newb.
 
nightcrickets said:
I am not sure what they mean in Islam, because we have a verse like this:

Luk 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

It is easy to think that Jesus expect you to hate your family, but actually, he doesn't because as you continue to study the bible, it says to love the sinner, and hate the sin and things like that. This particular verse just trying to say to love God with all your heart, more than your family. Your family shouldn't be above God. Afterall, if you believe in God, it is He that provided you the family.
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*In Islam, it is somewhat more stricter. So it may seem violent by condemning things but since Islam is the final religion of all religions, it has made certain laws to be completely set without excuse. The previous believers such as Jews and Christians were given the same rules but they did not follow it well. So, let this be known before you judge Islam.

Answering your post, Islam does wish people to love their mothers and fathers and siblings and to respect every relative. However, it expects all of them to love God over everyone else. During my religious pathfinding time, I encountered a dilemma of having to obey God or obey my parents. I consulted all resources I could and found out that I had to obey God firstly. This is very similar to Christianity and Judaism. That is the bottom line.

*Teresh claims that Islam is easier than any of its previous religions. That may be, I have not decided that.
 
Christianity teaches that human is incapable of following every rules. Only God can. And we need God. Once we acknowledge we are sinners, and need a savior, by his grace, we are forgiven. All we need is to submit to him and accept his gift.

It can't get harder than that.
 
Islam requires only a simple saying with sincerity, the shahada:

أشهد أن لا إله إلاَّ الله وأشهد أن محمد رسول الله
"I testify there is no god but God and Muhammad is His messenger."

And that is all you need to do. Doesn't get harder than that. ;)
 
nightcrickets said:
This whole thread should have been done in PM.
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Disagree with you. I enjoyin' the debate posts between Jeff and teh other guy - It's very interesting, increase my understanding more about Islam religion. If you find that very annoyin, then dont come and check this thread out.
 
Yiffzer said:
Islam requires only a simple saying with sincerity, the shahada:

أشهد أن لا إله إلاَّ الله وأشهد أن محمد رسول الله
"I testify there is no god but God and Muhammad is His messenger."

And that is all you need to do. Doesn't get harder than that. ;)
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seem like they worship the messenger alot.
 
Oh really? Do you have a lowly agenda like Netrox does? :roll:
At least explain and prove it than just spout out a worthless uneducated opinion.
 
you have it right there..you must believe that Muhammad is His messenger. Why don't they just wrote it like this: "I testify there is no god but God"
In a christian viewpoint, it's idolatry.
 
Since this is a "Let Ask Yiffzer" thread...

Are you deaf or hearing? Just curious.
 
nightcrickets said:
you have it right there..you must believe that Muhammad is His messenger. Why don't they just wrote it like this: "I testify there is no god but God"
In a christian viewpoint, it's idolatry.
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Are you trying to be a hypocrite? I mean, really. You worship Jesus, a human being. Why don't you worship God and stop saying Jesus' name?

Muslims respect Muhammad for the fact he brought forth Islam from revelations. He set the examples of a true Muslim. He set the Sunnah so that all Muslims may follow him. Muslims respect him so much for the Qur'an. Muhammad mentioned that if you do not believe in him, then you do not believe in God. Why is that? Because all things Islamic came through him from God. But in worship, Muslims only say God's name and nothing else.

Muhammad did not allow idolatry. Islam is very strict about idolatry. Why would Islam promote idolatry for Muhammad but not for anything else? That's stupidity in the least, like yourself. :rol:

Do you know how many times Muhammad's name is mentioned in the Qur'an?
 
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Yiffzer said:
Are you trying to be a hypocrite? I mean, really. You worship Jesus, a human being. Why don't you worship God and stop saying Jesus' name?

Muslims respect Muhammad for the fact he brought forth Islam from revelations. He set the examples of a true Muslim. He set the Sunnah so that all Muslims may follow him. Muslims respect him so much for the Qur'an. Muhammad mentioned that if you do not believe in him, then you do not believe in God. Why is that? Because all things Islamic came through him from God. But in worship, Muslims only say God's name and nothing else.

Muhammad did not allow idolatory. Islam is very strict about idolatory. Why would Islam promote idolatory for Muhammad but not for anything else? That's stupidity in the lealst, like yourself. :rol:

Do you know how many times Muhammad's name is mentioned in the Qur'an?
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Jesus is not idolatry:

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
 
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