Start with spoken language or ASL?

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jillio said:
Yes, it would matter. It would indicate that you have actually thought through the situation enough to come up with a solution. It would show that you actually have a way to remediate those situations that continue to come into play and create dealys for the deaf child. It would actually add validity to your propposal. As it stands, that is the one thing that stands in the way of what you propose actually being effective in practice. If you can't take your theory and put it into practice, it is useless.
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But.... I am a result of the theory "in practice". That's what I'm trying to tell you. But let me guess...

"Stop talking about yourself. You are an outlier. You don't count."
 
Daredevel7 said:
I could use the same logic for Bi-Bi approach. "Clueless parents of deaf people, there's about 20 methods out there, but ya know what? The Bi-bi approach is more successful. Jillio spent 20 years researching and collecting facts in a systematic manner. Since it works for the majority of deaf children, it MUST work for your child. Don't even bother researching since Jillio did it all."
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More evidence of your total lack of knowledge and your inefficient logic.

Please name the 20 methods currently in use for deaf education. I seem to be missing out on quite a few based on that number.

And do your own research. If you bothered to do so before you attempted to present yourself as someone who understands all of the implications, your arguments would have a much more solid foundation. You truly need a wider perspective.
 
jillio said:
No, that is not what I am saying at all. You really need to stop equating speech with language. That is where you are making your fatal error in logic.
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How am I doing this? I read the previous posts I made, and I don't see it.
 
Am I one of those experts?

If so, I'll straight up and tell you of those subjects you want to know of. But remember, I'm just one of those guys, with different excerised opinions. I'm sure I'm totally different from that expert, jillio.

One size fit none - what works for a child doesn't always work for another child - individuals.
 
jillio said:
More evidence of your total lack of knowledge and your inefficient logic.

Please name the 20 methods currently in use for deaf education. I seem to be missing out on quite a few based on that number.

And do your own research. If you bothered to do so before you attempted to present yourself as someone who understands all of the implications, your arguments would have a much more solid foundation. You truly need a wider perspective.
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Why research when we can express our opinion.
 
Daredevel7 said:
But.... I am a result of the theory "in practice". That's what I'm trying to tell you. But let me guess...

"Stop talking about yourself. You are an outlier. You don't count."
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You, you, you. And for the singular you, there are 200 deaf children who have been underserved and undereducated by the same method you claim as a success for you. I suppose you think that the sacrifice of their well being is justified just to promote a method that has worked for the one.

But your theory regards the testing of infants for oral language protential. You still have not been able to put that theory into practice. Go back and work on your theory. When you reach a point that it could actually be considered as a viable solution to determining an infant's propensity for developing spoken language, get back to me.
 
Alright, I give up. You win, Jillio. You've won by throwing a myriad empty interchangable comments such as "your total lack of knowledge", "inefficient logic", "do your research", "you need a wider perspective", and so on.

I will say something mean. You and Shel90 have both similar (if not the same) arguments, but I have learned SO much from Shel90 and not you because she attached her own personal experiences and even though there were a bit of passive aggressive behavior between us, she was at least diplomatic and down to earth about it.
 
Daredevel7 said:
Alright, I give up. You win, Jillio. You've won by throwing a myriad empty interchangable comments such as "your total lack of knowledge", "inefficient logic", "do your research", "you need a wider perspective", and so on.

I will say something mean. You and Shel90 have both similar (if not the same) arguments, but I have learned SO much from Shel90 and not you because she attached her own personal experiences and even though there were a bit of passive aggressive behavior between us, she was at least diplomatic and down to earth about it.
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You mean, Shel didn't research? She based it on her feelings and thoughts? I see, I see!
 
Daredevel7 said:
Alright, I give up. You win, Jillio. You've won by throwing a myriad empty interchangable comments such as "your total lack of knowledge", "inefficient logic", "do your research", "you need a wider perspective", and so on.

I will say something mean. You and Shel90 have both similar (if not the same) arguments, but I have learned SO much from Shel90 and not you because she attached her own personal experiences and even though there were a bit of passive aggressive behavior between us, she was at least diplomatic and down to earth about it.
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Its good that you learned something. Perhaps your perspective will become more realistic as a result.

And keep in mind....this is not about shel or me winning. It is about deaf children winning.
 
jillio said:
Its good that you learned something. Perhaps your perspective will become more realistic as a result.

And keep in mind....this is not about shel or me winning. It is about deaf children winning.
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And to win, you teach it spoken language with SEE than ASL with spoken language or that's just irrelevant for a child's life.
 
imdeafsowhat said:
And to win, you teach it spoken language with SEE than ASL with spoken language or that's just irrelevant for a child's life.
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Then why are deaf children not increasing their literacy rates and overall academic functioning when SEE is used in educational programs?
 
jillio said:
Then why are deaf children not increasing their literacy rates and overall academic functioning when SEE is used in educational programs?
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Because their parents aren't using it. Since it's in the educational programs, parent aren't really there all the time. It's different for you because you're a teacher PLUS a parent. You remind me of my mother, you're forgetting the time that needs to be spent, quality, with the child for extra attention so you can understand your child. Fuck the school, ok? It's family now.
 
imdeafsowhat said:
Because their parents aren't using it. Since it's in the educational programs, parent aren't really there all the time. It's different for you because you're a teacher PLUS a parent. You remind me of my mother, you're forgetting the time that needs to be spent, quality, with the child for extra attention so you can understand your child. Fuck the school, ok? It's family now.
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The parents have absolutely nothing to do with it. I'm talking about literacy rates and academic functioning based on the teaching methods that have been in use for the last 30 years.

And I have forgotten nothing when it comes to my child. Stop projecting your ill feelings toward your mother on others. Get some help to deal with your bitterness toward her.
 
I started out with spoken language and didn't learn ASL until I was 14 years old. Hmmm I feel that it varies with each person with whether or not to start with spoken language or ASL but for me I feel that I should have started out with both languages. I grew up not understanding what my teachers, my preacher and my Sunday School teacher were saying ..... I would fall :zzz: at some times!
 
jillio said:
The parents have absolutely nothing to do with it. I'm talking about literacy rates and academic functioning based on the teaching methods that have been in use for the last 30 years.

And I have forgotten nothing when it comes to my child. Stop projecting your ill feelings toward your mother on others. Get some help to deal with your bitterness toward her.
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It's the role, not the attitude of yours that remind me of my mother. Do NOT ever ASSUME again.

Education always change, it will continue to change. Because there's always different deaf people with different needs. What stays the same is the family, they are with you everyday, they have to meet your needs. Oh one more thing, leave the mothers out of this thread. I merely said you remind me of my mother because she is a teacher and a mother as well. When I went to school, it was full of bullshit, but when I go to family, there's no bullshit. Just us trying to understand each others and that's love.

The last 30 years didn't stay the same in education. 30 years ago, my high schools I went to, I went to two, they had no programs, no classes to teach any sign language until I came, I explained how it COULD be easy for those to understand a life of the disabled, I didn't say deaf, I said disabled people. Sign Language could be the KEY to communicating with people who hates the sound because it's simply too loud. Today, my high schools I went to, now gives classes to teach sign language and social life of the disablities. Because the family of the students might have sibilings that is disabled and they really don't know how to do crap with them but no more of that. It all changed.

Truly, we, deaf, have it easy while the rest do not.
 
IslandGal said:
I started out with spoken language and didn't learn ASL until I was 14 years old. Hmmm I feel that it varies with each person with whether or not to start with spoken language or ASL but for me I feel that I should have started out with both languages. I grew up not understanding what my teachers, my preacher and my Sunday School teacher were saying ..... I would fall :zzz: at some times!
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Everything is different for each individuals.
 
IslandGal said:
I started out with spoken language and didn't learn ASL until I was 14 years old. Hmmm I feel that it varies with each person with whether or not to start with spoken language or ASL but for me I feel that I should have started out with both languages. I grew up not understanding what my teachers, my preacher and my Sunday School teacher were saying ..... I would fall :zzz: at some times!
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That is the whole point. Thank you for sharing your experience. Why restrict a child to an environment that does not allow them to access the same information their hearing peers are able to access?
 
imdeafsowhat said:
It's the role, not the attitude of yours that remind me of my mother. Do NOT ever ASSUME again.

Education always change, it will continue to change. Because there's always different deaf people with different needs. What stays the same is the family, they are with you everyday, they have to meet your needs. Oh one more thing, leave the mothers out of this thread. I merely said you remind me of my mother because she is a teacher and a mother as well. When I went to school, it was full of bullshit, but when I go to family, there's no bullshit. Just us trying to understand each others and that's love.

The last 30 years didn't stay the same in education. 30 years ago, my high schools I went to, I went to two, they had no programs, no classes to teach any sign language until I came, I explained how it COULD be easy for those to understand a life of the disabled, I didn't say deaf, I said disabled people. Sign Language could be the KEY to communicating with people who hates the sound because it's simply too loud. Today, my high schools I went to, now gives classes to teach sign language and social life of the disablities. Because the family of the students might have sibilings that is disabled and they really don't know how to do crap with them but no more of that. It all changed.

Truly, we, deaf, have it easy while the rest do not.
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Oh, sure....you were single handedly the impetus for a reform in deaf education. And A.G. Bell taught Helen Keller sign language, too.:roll:
 
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