Staff Tackles and Chokes Deaf Shopper suspected of Shoplifting

[TWA]

this took place inside the mall.

Umm, ah, check the video again. It happens outside the store, in the open air.

Bodily harm? Assault and Battery? You might want to look up legal definition on that part. I see no such thing in this case. I see a legal detainment by security guard. Depending on state - there is a liability protection for security guard. Since this took place in California....

A choke hold is causing bodily harm. Tackling someone from behind and using any type of force with intent to restrain or injure is assault and battery. Why is this not clear to you? It's clear to everyone else.

Best Buy's policy prohibits the employee from handling security-related issue. That's why the store hires security guard for that purpose. For greater legal protection - they hire specialized security guards - "Loss Prevention"

You might want to check into that a bit more closely. Their policy covers ALL EMPLOYEES, including security. They do not initiate physical confrontation. Instead, they use surveillance and witness to press charges after the suspect is gone.

 

[Jiro]

Force Science News - PoliceLink

but not illegal.

Los Angeles Police Reconsider Using Choke Hold

In a recent department survey, 92 percent of officers said they wanted the option of using a choke hold as an alternative to hitting suspects with clubs, said Comdr. Michael J. Bostic, chairman of the police review committee.

Chief Gates banned the bar-arm choke hold, in which the forearm is held across the throat to subdue a suspect, in the early 1980's. In 1982, the Police Commission voted to limit the other form of chokehold, the carotid, which involves pinching off the artery in the neck, to situations in which deadly force was justified.

How can we not forget this? Oklahoma officer's chokehold on EMT (skip to 2:00)
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KluItc365hU]YouTube - Oklahoma Highway Patrol fight with EMT[/ame]

 

[Banjo]

I didn't say it was illegal, just neither not allowed or very restricted. Shoplifters? Please.

 

[Jiro]

Umm, ah, check the video again. It happens outside the store, in the open air.

outside the store, inside the mall.

A choke hold is causing bodily harm. Tackling someone from behind and using any type of force with intent to restrain or injure is assault and battery. Why is this not clear to you? It's clear to everyone else.

still don't see it. Under most states' law on Assault/Battery - it means you willfully and unlawfully inflict physical violence on others. In this case - the security guard did not. He had a probable cause.

California Penal Code 240 - 248 :

240. An assault is an unlawful attempt, coupled with a present
ability, to commit a violent injury on the person of another.

242. A battery is any willful and unlawful use of force or violence
upon the person of another.

You might want to check into that a bit more closely. Their policy covers ALL EMPLOYEES, including security. They do not initiate physical confrontation. Instead, they use surveillance and witness to press charges after the suspect is gone.

That would depend on each store's policy. Some does allow detainment. Some doesn't. Some stores have armed security guard.

 

[Jiro]

it's easy to get inflamed over this and I understand but you have to understand from other point of view as well. What I'd like to see is what happened before this incident.

Did the security guard stop them and question them?
Did those 2 deaf guys cooperate with the security guards?
Did the deaf guys act in a way that caused the security guards to detain them like this?

or.... did the security guard immediately took action without warning? I doubt that happened because if that DID happen - then the customer has a solid case to sue them especially since they're not shoplifters.

The security guards do not have the legal rights as police officer. They merely have citizen's rights to detain one via Citizen Arrest but the state law may or may not give some legal latitude on this for store security guards.

Like I said - it's a shit situation. Nobody wins.

 

[TWA]

it's easy to get inflamed over this and I understand but you have to understand from other point of view as well. What I'd like to see is what happened before this incident.

Did the security guard stop them and question them?
Did those 2 deaf guys cooperate with the security guards?
Did the deaf guys act in a way that caused the security guards to detain them like this?

Yes, I want to know those same answers, because the case for litigation and criminal charges would rest on them.

or.... did the security guard immediately took action without warning? I doubt that happened because if that DID happen - then the customer has a solid case to sue them especially since they're not shoplifters.

Exactomundo.

The security guards do not have the legal rights as police officer. They merely have citizen's rights to detain one via Citizen Arrest but the state law may or may not give some legal latitude on this for store security guards.

Citizen's arrest have been found to be unlawful in many cases and usually end up in the person making the arrest getting sued and prosecuted.

Like I said - it's a shit situation. Nobody wins.

Yes, it's a shitty situation, but let's home the deaf guys win this one, assuming they did nothing wrong. I'm still reserving judgment on that...

 

[Jiro]

Citizen's arrest have been found to be unlawful in many cases and usually end up in the person making the arrest getting sued and prosecuted.

I doubt most of those illegal citizen's arrests are by security guards. These days in this police state... the mall security guards are more protected than ever.

forever 21. it's serious business.

Yes, it's a shitty situation, but let's home the deaf guys win this one, assuming they did nothing wrong. I'm still reserving judgment on that...

Everybody is equal to my eyes - regardless of race, gender, or disability. There's law and there's common sense. I side with whoever is on par with law and common sense.

 

[TheMayorofHB]

I worked for Albertsons for 10 yrs. Yes its true that employees (as stated earlier) cannot apprehend shoplifters. Years ago someone sued Albertsons for similar circumstances, now they hire their security in house so they know better not to chase and apprehend said "shoplifter" as opposed to hiring someone with military experience. Albertsons security guards cannot touch anyone, but they can confront them and keep them detained (without force) until the police get there. If they decide to run then we simply have them on camera.

Yes nobody wins in this case, however criminals or not they can easily turn the tides in a legal battle.

 

[DJGrace]

Bar-arm type chokes are more dangerous, not because of the idea of cutting off air, but for the high risk of crushing the windpipe. Because once you crush that, game over. That guard was using a vascular choke and freaking out just makes it worse.

This is a tricky scenario since we don't know all that happened. I agree that his friend shouldn't have tried to interfere so much, it just makes things worse. Dealing with shoplifters is tricky. It's not shoplifting until they leave the store but then you're supposed to somehow get them back into the store without force. But you can still argue that that is unlawful detainment. Detention at school is technically unlawful detainment. Yeah, in my business law class we learned that there is really no such thing as citizen's arrest. You'll just get slapped with unlawful detainment.

I'm not going to pass any judgement really because I don't know enough about what happened.

 

[PowerON]

from what I see that staff or secruity are suppose to make coop with them when they hold their shoulder and tell to come with us. If refuse being coop, then it's more like they're attach to hold down.

However... there is one wrong thing... I do not see them provide an interpreter. Are they?

 

[Jiro]

Yeah, in my business law class we learned that there is really no such thing as citizen's arrest. You'll just get slapped with unlawful detainment.

In America - we do.

 

[Banjo]

In America - we do.

I imagine it would vary by the state.

 

[TWA]

I imagine it would vary by the state.

It does. But in most cases, you can only make a citizen's arrest when you clearly catch someone in the act of committing a FELONY.

Most shoplifting falls under misdemeanor category.

 

[Jiro]

It does. But in most cases, you can only make a citizen's arrest when you clearly catch someone in the act of committing a FELONY.

Most shoplifting falls under misdemeanor category.

actually no. most states do allow citizen's arrest for misdemeanor crime, public disturbance, etc - mostly minor/petty stuff. Beside.... if somebody is committing a felony, then you must be an idiot to attempt a citizen's arrest on him. You are most likely to get hurt or even killed. Felony = murder, kidnapping, aggravated assault, arson, grant theft auto, etc. Citizen's Arrest has been around for many many many years and it's still used to this date.

North Carolina is the only state in USA that has no legal provision for citizen's arrest.

what you just said there - that would mean all security guards cannot make citizen's arrest when they see shoplifting in progress.

 

[shel90]

It does. But in most cases, you can only make a citizen's arrest when you clearly catch someone in the act of committing a FELONY.

Most shoplifting falls under misdemeanor category.

Really? I think it is the reverse...make a citizen's arrest for misdemeanors and leave the felony acts to those who are trained. I wouldnt want to arrest someone who is trying to rob a bank.

 

[Jiro]

California has a very good legal provision for Citizen's Arrest.

Nicky Hilton has done citizen's arrest on a man who pushed her at IHOP and was later arrested by police officer for misdemeanor battery charge.

 

[TWA]

actually no. most states do allow citizen's arrest for misdemeanor crime, public disturbance, etc - mostly minor/petty stuff. Beside.... if somebody is committing a felony, then you must be an idiot to attempt a citizen's arrest on him. You are most likely to get hurt or even killed. Felony = murder, kidnapping, aggravated assault, arson, grant theft auto, etc. Citizen's Arrest has been around for many many many years and it's still used to this date.

North Carolina is the only state in USA that has no legal provision for citizen's arrest.

what you just said there - that would mean all security guards cannot make citizen's arrest when they see shoplifting in progress.

Actually, you're wrong (again). Most states only allow citizens arrest to be made for felonies, though it varries when misdemeanors are involved. In California, where this video takes place, you may only make a citizens arrest when the act committed is a felony.

What is a Citizens Arrest? | Imhoff and Associates Blog there is a criminal lawyer office explaining the situation for you.


And you're also still wrong about where this took place. Look again, dude. I'm telling you, IT'S OUTSIDE ON THE SIDEWALK. Goddamn.

 

[TWA]

Really? I think it is the reverse...make a citizen's arrest for misdemeanors and leave the felony acts to those who are trained. I wouldnt want to arrest someone who is trying to rob a bank.

That's what you'd think, but the laws say otherwise...

 

[Jiro]

Actually, you're wrong (again). Most states only allow citizens arrest to be made for felonies, though it varries when misdemeanors are involved. In California, where this video takes place, you may only make a citizens arrest when the act committed is a felony.

What is a Citizens Arrest? | Imhoff and Associates Blog there is a criminal lawyer office explaining the situation for you.

You forgot about Merchant Statutes and Loss Prevention law

And you're also still wrong about where this took place. Look again, dude. I'm telling you, IT'S OUTSIDE ON THE SIDEWALK. Goddamn.

there were escalators. umad?

 

[TWA]

You forgot about Merchant Statutes and Loss Prevention law

Well, okay, fine. American laws are so complicated and contradictory it really doesn't matter anyway. Besides, there's always a big difference in what a law says and how it is applied. I'm just saying, though, for a citizens arrest, it must be a felony in many states. Not all, but many.

there were escalators. umad?

C'mon now. You're from NJ/NYC, you know that there are plenty of outdoor escalators that are not part of the mall itself. Like, Subways, hello?

Just watch the video again, ALL THE WAY THROUGH. Okay? It takes place on the sidewalk outside the store, in the open air.

It's okay to admit when you're wrong.