Spoken English AND ASL, right?

[Teresh]

Here's a few things I'm darn sure of:

(1) Learning ASL right away has got to be a good idea.

(2) It's NOT a one-way-versus-another thing. The more languages/methods we learn, the better! (Thanks Reba, for noting that it's the whole family who are learning)

(3) The "deaf community" is really cool.

-RoyalGuard

As a hard-of-hearing person that grew up in a hearing household, I will say that I love you for that openness.

And damned if your daughter doesn't love you for that openness too.

 

[etaoin shrdlu]

Not coming from a bilingual family, I don't know about the kinds of problems/opportunities that there are in learning multiple languages.

There are definite advantages. The brain centers responsible for the languages learnt during childhood are far more efficient than those responsible for languages learnt later on. Besides, being fluent in more than one language helps making connections and learning a third or a fourth during adulthood.

But in order for this to be efficient, you should master the language you teach your child. That means, start learning now! It's also useful to use one language per parent/adult with frequent contact. Rather than having her read lips one day and communicate with signs the other, you could chose one way of communication, and your partner, the other. In case you're a single parent, I guess you should choose sign language, and have other person or persons speaking clearly to her.

Please note, speaking clearly is not the same as speaking slowly, or overstressing syllables, because it alters the results. Consider the way you pronounce the T in "too" and in "Anita", and look at yourself in the mirror while you do it. You'll see there's a difference, and pronouncing "A Ni Ta" is not the same.

As for the drawbacks, bilingual children tend to confuse both languages during early childhood. They're unsure about which one to use with each person (that's why it is helpful to share the tasks). At first, it seems like their language development is slower than other children's (especially being deaf), but then, around 3 or 4, they suddenly start differenciating. In the meantime, the person who talks to her orally should be able to understand sing language, but try to avoid using it, even if the child seems to understand them better this way.

On the other hand, the difficulties of learning a second language aren't as tough as somebody pointed out (sorry, I can't locate the message right now, but it said something like "have you ever tried to read the manual of a foreign device?"). God knows why they don't hire professional translators, but being proficient in a foreign language is kinda possible. English isn't my first language, it isn't even my second. And I learnt it as an adult. I'm aware that what I write will never sound idiomatic, but I guess it's easier to understand than most of these manuals.

 

[darkangel8603]

I would think learning ASL right now is the best thing to do, and still teach her how to speak. Hopefully she will be able to speak pretty well. Because some deaf hoh people just cannot speak at all, one of my friend who is deaf, she was trained as a baby for a long time to speak, and still couldnt speak, so its just depends on the person. But as for me, I learned SEE and spoken language when i was young, and now i can speak, read/write english, but my signing skills is not a very good ASL, because i had been using SEE for my whole life til i was 12 yr old when i started to transfer to ASL, and well my signing is not as good as some of those would say about an person who signs in good ASL etc. So i think its best to teach ASL as a first language not SEE cuz its a waste of time. But still teach how to speak etc. If you can get her to speak well, she will be ok with english.

Most people i know who can do well in orally, tend to be good at english comparing to other people who cant speak.
(just my observation from the last 12 years or whatever i had been with the deaf students)

 

[loml]

Clarify with CUE

"Consider the way you pronounce the T in "too" and in "Anita", and look at yourself in the mirror while you do it. You'll see there's a difference, and pronouncing "A Ni Ta" is not the same."



Cued Speech claifies any combination of vowels and constanants in English, as well as 50 other languages. It is easy for all family members to learn. Cued Speech enables the deaf child (DOHA) to learn and communicate in their family language. Simply put, a marvelous communication toolthat builds the base for literacy!

It just makes sense!

 

[Cousin Vinny]

I don't mean to put down Cued Speech, but I've never met anyone who uses it. According to admittedly outdated study (American Annals of the Deaf 124, 1979), only 0.2% used Cued Speech in secondary settings.

If it's so great, why hasn't it gained more mainstream acceptance?

 

[Reba]

I don't mean to put down Cued Speech, but I've never met anyone who uses it. According to admittedly outdated study (American Annals of the Deaf 124, 1979), only 0.2% used Cued Speech in secondary settings.

If it's so great, why hasn't it gained more mainstream acceptance?

I remember they tried it in South Carolina. One school used Cued Speech exclusively for the deaf students. The other school used ASL. Whenever the two groups of students got together for events (sports games, picnics, field trips, etc.) they couldn't not communicate with each other. It was very sad.

IMHO, cuing speech may be a useful tool for speech "therapy" but it is not useful as a means of communication between deaf and hearing people outside of the educational setting. Also, just teaching the correct pronounciation of words doesn't necessarily mean communication is happening. The meanings of the words and their proper usage are most important.

 

[loml]

I don't mean to put down Cued Speech, but I've never met anyone who uses it. According to admittedly outdated study (American Annals of the Deaf 124, 1979), only 0.2% used Cued Speech in secondary settings.

If it's so great, why hasn't it gained more mainstream acceptance?

Excellent qestion Eyeth! Not an easy one to answer. There are groups throughout North America who are trying their utmost to get CS on equal grounds with other methods. Not an easy task to say the least, kind of like swimming up stream. People who have invested years of their lives in supporting other learning methods are not about to change face, in case they loose face. In my experience, censorship plays a role in what kind information you will be able to obtainl, especially if you are entrusting your enquiries to an ASL driven institution.

There was a Cued Speech department at Gally for years, until perhap 3 or 4 years ago when the "powers that be" decided that it should close. Perhaps that is something I. King Jordon should explain prior to his departure from Gally.

As far as you not meeting anyone, there are people that do use CS. Look for Cued Speech workshop where you are located, there is bound to be something.

Check out the NCSA - National Cued Speech Association.

http://www.cuedspeech.org/


A good book to read is "The Cued Speech Resource Book - For Parents of Deaf Children". - Cornett & Daisy

 

[deafdyke]

Well how was the study measured? People who use CS EXCLUSIVELY are rare...probaly even rarer then ASL exclusives (who only make up 1% of the dhh population)

One school used Cued Speech exclusively for the deaf students.

There's nothing wrong with using it as a BRIDGE or to get a dhh kid fluent or literate in English, but.....using it exclusively isn't great....

 

[loml]

I remember they tried it in South Carolina. One school used Cued Speech exclusively for the deaf students. The other school used ASL. Whenever the two groups of students got together for events (sports games, picnics, field trips, etc.) they couldn't not communicate with each other. It was very sad.

Given this scenario, I would have to state that the responsibity lies upon the people within the "system" There is absolutely no reason why CS cannot be used a the tool for learning the English language and in turn ASL for communication. The only reason this does not happen, imho, is people have their own agenda. The bottom line is, if ASL alone did work for literacy then there would not be a literacy problem.

IMHO, cuing speech may be a useful tool for speech "therapy" but it is not useful as a means of communication between deaf and hearing people outside of the educational setting. Also, just teaching the correct pronounciation of words doesn't necessarily mean communication is happening. The meanings of the words and their proper usage are most important.

Here is the Mission & Vision statement of the NCSA:

Mission:

The National Cued Speech Association champions effective communication, language development and literacy through the use of Cued Speech.

Vision:

The National Cued Speech Association envisions that:


• Individuals communicate effectively in the language(s) of their family and society.
• Families are informed about Cued Speech along with other communication options.
• Their rights are respected and instruction is provided to facilitate the use of cued languages.
• Students achieve literacy through full access to language and education.
• Educators and institutions respect and implement cueing as a mode of communication.
• Professionally trained and certified cueing transliterators are available.

http://www.cuedspeech.org/sub/about/mission.asp

Many people have been misinformed. Change is in the air!

 

[deafdyke]

The bottom line is, if ASL alone did work for literacy then there would not be a literacy problem.

Agreed, but you could say the same about oralism etc!

 

[deafdyke]

It's not just an ASL thing.....it's something that is seen among ALL dhh kids!

 

[Reba]

Well how was the study measured? People who use CS EXCLUSIVELY are rare...probaly even rarer then ASL exclusives (who only make up 1% of the dhh population)

There's nothing wrong with using it as a BRIDGE or to get a dhh kid fluent or literate in English, but.....using it exclusively isn't great....

I think it was an experimental program. I know terps from the ASL school, and CS facilitators from the CS school, and they were my sources of information. This was a few years ago, so I don't know the current status.

Honestly, I don't know what is going on with the South Carolina public school system (hearing and deaf). It is consistently in the dumper (#48-49), so I certainly wouldn't use it as a model for anyone to follow.

 

[loml]

Hidden Agenda

Agreed, but you could say the same about oralism etc!

The "professionals" that the parents meet as they try to do what is best for their child, in their circumstance, are overwhelmed with biased information.

IMHO, to suggest the parents learn a "foreign language", which in fact can/does take years to become fluent in, and historically has not proven itself to develop literacy, is actually oppressing deaf children.

The issue is a sensitive one, with people quick to defend their position.

 

[deafdyke]

IMHO, to suggest the parents learn a "foreign language", which in fact can/does take years to become fluent in, and historically has not proven itself to develop literacy, is actually oppressing deaf children.

You miss the point. Most oral deaf kids don't have high levels of literacy either! Also, if ASL inhibited literacy then you'd see a lot more DODAs who are illiterate. Yet DODAs are the high acheivers.....no matter if they are TCers or ASL onlyers. Yes, it has corralated itself with low reading levels....but they are probaly simlair to kids who were educated in ESL settings....It's NOT ASL per se that causes poor literacy....It's the fact that Deafies approach English as a SECOND language!
Personally, I think that hearing parents NEED to learn ASL.....if they're asking their dhh kid to put forth the effort into speech and spoken language, then they should meet the dhh kid halfway and learn ASL!

 

[loml]

No point missed here

Also, if ASL inhibited literacy then you'd see a lot more DODAs who are illiterate. Yet DODAs are the high acheivers.....no matter if they are TCers or ASL onlyers

DODAs have the "advantage" of no communication/language delay.

The crux for DOHA is the delay in communication/language.

It's NOT ASL per se that causes poor literacy....It's the fact that Deafies approach English as a SECOND language!

A child who has no language/communication is not approaching English as a second language.

In a perfect world the ASL competancy of parents may be able to be "half way", but that is not reality, imho. Parents have access to tools, that are not mind boggling.

 

[loml]

Parents have access to tools, that are not mind boggling.

This in fact is suppose to read: Parents have to be able to access tools, that are not mind boggling.

my typing error... sorry

 

[deafdyke]

A child who has no language/communication is not approaching English as a second language

True, but I mean a kid with NO language skills whatsoever is pretty rare.....
God, even the orally delayed kids use those commuication book things...
And, yes.....a child who learns ASL late b/c of being an oral failure WILL approach English as a second language!

 

[Rose Immortal]

Reading through this thread, I must applaud whoever said they believe ANY child, regardless, ought to learn multiple languages.

I am nearly bilingual (English/Spanish), and I fully intend for my children to learn both. I still do not speak Spanish as a native would, because I started at 14 years of age--and bear in mind that I am considered "very talented" with languages! (So believe me, if I should have a child who is dhh, I will bust SERIOUS butt to learn proper ASL.) Starting early is of the utmost importance, whatever the language may be. I know that had I been exposed much more to Spanish as a child, I could be fully fluent.

Language is a tool that categorizes and constrains thought. We don't realize we're doing it, as we write, speak, or sign, but it happens. For me, anyway, exposure to a second language not only taught me a new grammar and a new set of words, but a new way to frame my thoughts. I've got to think that being fluent with multiple "mental frameworks" would not only be helpful in communicating, but with being a more versatile thinker in general. And that's a statement I'll stand by for pretty much anybody.