Sound and Fury DVD

Pinky said:
Exactly, that what my husband's mention. He said AGBell didn't believe in Deaf and ASL. He thought AGBell is weird. Ohh well we can't change it in past. We are in 21 century now.
Click to expand...

The problem is, A.G. Bell holds onto those past philosophies. They continue to support them and promote them. Remember their published statement against the Pepsi commercial because it was done using signing deaf?
 
Pinky said:
Exactly, that what my husband's mention. He said AGBell didn't believe in Deaf and ASL. He thought AGBell is weird. Ohh well we can't change it in past. We are in 21 century now.
Click to expand...

Yea we are but the foundation still holds onto these ideologies which is unfortunate if they are supposed to help deaf people...but only if deaf people coform to their ideology which I disagree with strongly.
 
That's not the issue here. Your daughter appears to be successful, and that's good. Good for you, your daughter, and your family. But that is just one of many ways of raising a deaf child. It worked for you, but many are not as lucky. What pisses me off is that you think you have a superior understanding of the Deaf experience.

Pssstt, Rick, your daughter is not the first Deaf college graduate, and there are many, many successful Deaf people in the world who went a completely different route than your daughter. Get over yourself and your undaunting courage to do what was different when few other people were. I did not criticize your parenting abilities. In fact, I did not reference it at all, so don't use that as a shield to stand behind. This is about YOU and your shitty attitude.

I'll explain my "armchair analysis" for you in simple terms so you don't confuse it again: As a hearing person, you will NEVER understand what it is to be Deaf (just like we will never understand what it is to be hearing). You can study the science of audiology all you want and read all the books you want about social interaction and communication disorders, etc. but until you spend your entire life living with a hearing loss, you will never understand the emotional experience of Deafness. That just cannot be learned, not through infinite observation, or reading, or even raising a deaf child. So stop trying to equate your experience as the father of a deaf child with the actual experience of being deaf. Every time you do, it makes you look like more of an ass.

And here's a clue for you, dude: Yours is the same condescending, patriarchal attitude that has ingrained so much anger in the Deaf community for the last hundred years. Ironically, it's this anger which is the source of all the mistreatment you experienced when getting your daughter a CI those 20 years ago. It did not start when CIs were invented. It goes all the way back to AGB (and even before), which is why Shel mentioned him. The fact that you don't see how that anger by which you were "victimized" cannot be separated from the past or the future further shows your lack of understanding about being Deaf.

I've only been here a month, but I've seen so many of your posts that just seek to undermine ASL and the Deaf community. Really, what is your reason for being here?




rick48 said:
Thank you for you insightful and in depth analysis. Where were you when we first found out our daughter was deaf? You would have been so helpful to us in our raising of our child. Our cluelessness resulted in a raising a child who is a college graduate, dean's list student on her way to graduate school but more importantly is a happy, well adjusted young women with a loving supportive family and large circle of hearing and deaf friends. Oh where did we go wrong and too bad we did not have the benefit of your oh so helpful analysis.

Have a good day and better luck next time with the armchair analysis.
Rick
Click to expand...
 
TheWriteAlex said:
That's not the issue here. Your daughter appears to be successful, and that's good. Good for you and your daughter and his family. But that is just one of many ways of raising a deaf child. It worked for you, but many are not as lucky. What pisses me off is that you think you have a superior understanding of the Deaf experience.

Pssstt, Rick, your daughter is not the first Deaf college graduate, and there are many, many successful Deaf people in the world who went a completely different route than your daughter. Get over yourself and your undaunting courage to do what was different when few other people were. I did not criticize your parenting abilities. In fact, I did not reference it at all, so don't use that as a shield to stand behind. This is about YOU and your shitty attitude.

I'll explain my "armchair analysis" for you in simple terms so you don't confuse it again: As a hearing person, you will NEVER understand what it is to be Deaf (just like we will never understand what it is to be hearing). You can study the science of audiology all you want and read all the books you want about social interaction and communication disorders, etc. but until you spend your entire life living with a hearing loss, you will never understand the emotional experience of Deafness. That just cannot be learned, not through infinite observation, or reading, or even raising a deaf child. So stop trying to equate your experience as the father of a deaf child with the actual experience of being deaf. Every time you do, it makes you look like more of an ass.

And here's a clue for you, dude: Yours is the same condescending, patriarchal attitude that has ingrained so much anger in the Deaf community for the last hundred years. Ironically, it's this anger which is the source of all the mistreatment you experienced when getting your daughter a CI those 20 years ago. It did not start when CIs were invented. It goes all the way back to AGB (and even before), which is why Shel mentioned him. The fact that you don't see how that anger by which you were "victimized" cannot be separated from the past or the future further shows your lack of understanding about being Deaf.

I've only been here a month, but I've seen so many of your posts that just seek to undermine ASL and the Deaf community. Really, what is your reason for being here?
Click to expand...

:gpost:
 
jillio said:
The problem is, A.G. Bell holds onto those past philosophies. They continue to support them and promote them. Remember their published statement against the Pepsi commercial because it was done using signing deaf?
Click to expand...

That's true. Honest, I don't like AGBell's view on ASL and deafness. He didn't believe in ASL. But why he visited to American School for the Deaf to see deaf children with ASL??

When I was in school for deaf studies class. The movie of AGBell. He used a tool to check the voice in throat. What is disgust of him! His mom was deaf with oral. That's not make any sense!
 
TheWriteAlex said:
That's not the issue here. Your daughter appears to be successful, and that's good. Good for you, your daughter, and your family. But that is just one of many ways of raising a deaf child. It worked for you, but many are not as lucky. What pisses me off is that you think you have a superior understanding of the Deaf experience.

Pssstt, Rick, your daughter is not the first Deaf college graduate, and there are many, many successful Deaf people in the world who went a completely different route than your daughter. Get over yourself and your undaunting courage to do what was different when few other people were. I did not criticize your parenting abilities. In fact, I did not reference it at all, so don't use that as a shield to stand behind. This is about YOU and your shitty attitude.

I'll explain my "armchair analysis" for you in simple terms so you don't confuse it again: As a hearing person, you will NEVER understand what it is to be Deaf (just like we will never understand what it is to be hearing). You can study the science of audiology all you want and read all the books you want about social interaction and communication disorders, etc. but until you spend your entire life living with a hearing loss, you will never understand the emotional experience of Deafness. That just cannot be learned, not through infinite observation, or reading, or even raising a deaf child. So stop trying to equate your experience as the father of a deaf child with the actual experience of being deaf. Every time you do, it makes you look like more of an ass.

And here's a clue for you, dude: Yours is the same condescending, patriarchal attitude that has ingrained so much anger in the Deaf community for the last hundred years. Ironically, it's this anger which is the source of all the mistreatment you experienced when getting your daughter a CI those 20 years ago. It did not start when CIs were invented. It goes all the way back to AGB (and even before), which is why Shel mentioned him. The fact that you don't see how that anger by which you were "victimized" cannot be separated from the past or the future further shows your lack of understanding about being Deaf.

I've only been here a month, but I've seen so many of your posts that just seek to undermine ASL and the Deaf community. Really, what is your reason for being here?
Click to expand...
:gpost:
 
TheWriteAlex said:
That's not the issue here. Your daughter appears to be successful, and that's good. Good for you, your daughter, and your family. But that is just one of many ways of raising a deaf child. It worked for you, but many are not as lucky. What pisses me off is that you think you have a superior understanding of the Deaf experience.

Pssstt, Rick, your daughter is not the first Deaf college graduate, and there are many, many successful Deaf people in the world who went a completely different route than your daughter. Get over yourself and your undaunting courage to do what was different when few other people were. I did not criticize your parenting abilities. In fact, I did not reference it at all, so don't use that as a shield to stand behind. This is about YOU and your shitty attitude.

I'll explain my "armchair analysis" for you in simple terms so you don't confuse it again: As a hearing person, you will NEVER understand what it is to be Deaf (just like we will never understand what it is to be hearing). You can study the science of audiology all you want and read all the books you want about social interaction and communication disorders, etc. but until you spend your entire life living with a hearing loss, you will never understand the emotional experience of Deafness. That just cannot be learned, not through infinite observation, or reading, or even raising a deaf child. So stop trying to equate your experience as the father of a deaf child with the actual experience of being deaf. Every time you do, it makes you look like more of an ass.

And here's a clue for you, dude: Yours is the same condescending, patriarchal attitude that has ingrained so much anger in the Deaf community for the last hundred years. Ironically, it's this anger which is the source of all the mistreatment you experienced when getting your daughter a CI those 20 years ago. It did not start when CIs were invented. It goes all the way back to AGB (and even before), which is why Shel mentioned him. The fact that you don't see how that anger by which you were "victimized" cannot be separated from the past or the future further shows your lack of understanding about being Deaf.

I've only been here a month, but I've seen so many of your posts that just seek to undermine ASL and the Deaf community. Really, what is your reason for being here?
Click to expand...



If you truly have read my posts as you claim then you would realize your erroneous assumption in refering to my child as Deaf when she considers herself to be deaf. Secondly, then you would also have known that I support the rights of parents to raise their child with whatever method that they have determined to be in their child's best intersts. Third, and I know this will be hard for you to understand, I have never stated that the method we chose for our child is the method that is best for any other child. Fourth, never claim to understand what it is like to be Deaf, that is your invented argument to justify a personal attack upon me. However, if you want to use that argument as supportive of your positions then the similar argument that you will never understand what it is like to be the hearing parent of a deaf child is equally valid.

Please show me a post where I have undermined ASL? Show me a post where I have stated that a child should never learn ASL. Show me a post where I have stated that all deaf children should be raised orally? You said you have just read my posts, so back up your statements with some proof.

Am I a fan of Deaf Culture, absolutely not. My experiences are very similar to that of many other similar parents who approached the Deaf community at approximately the same time period. Its funny that the same people who wonder why I still feel this way after all these years are the very same people who tell me I must accept the Deaf community's anger towards me for transgressions that occurred years in the past and which I had no part of.

Do I care what you or others who consider themselves Deaf say about me, absolutely not. I do not seek your acceptance or agreement with any of my posts nor do I care what the prevailing opinion on this particular forum is. If that was what I considered to be important then we would certainly have not chosen an implant for our daughter over twenty years ago! Actually it is kind of humorous that you feel so threatened by what one anonymous poster writes.

As I have stated many times in my posts, which you claim to have read, we were accepted with open arms into the much larger deaf community and it is to those deaf adults to whom I am forever grateful and fortunate to call my friends. Life is too short and there are too many other wonderful people out there to be concerned about a group that constantly tells others that they can never be a "part" of them or that they have to accept their "justifiable" anger towards them. However, my feelings are molded and shaped by my experiences, I am certain that if I had rejected the cochlear implant for my child and placed her in a school for the deaf we would have been accepted with open arms and I too would think that Deaf Culture is the greatest thing since sliced bread.

Finally, why am I here, again go back to my posts, at this point solely to address any misrepresentations regarding cochlear implants such as them being marketing as a "cure" and to address any questions from parents considering cis who are unfortunate enough to stumble into this forum.
 
:roll:

Cant give it up, can u?
 
shel90 said:
:roll:

Cant give it up, can u?
Click to expand...

Exactly. He is obviously overly concerned with it, and fails to defend himself with accuracy. The wider "deaf community" that he refers to is the "oral only deaf community."

Likewise, he continues to state that he is here to correct mispresentations of the CI being presented as a "cure". Why is it then, that the majority of his posts have absolutely nothing to do with that issue, but rather with the issue of his disdain for the Deaf community and the individuals that claim membership in that group? It is evident that his motives are not as he represents them to be. Additionally, he claims to be here to provide advise to parents that request it. Parents come here seeking advise from the Deaf community, and he has already stated his disdain for such, and the fact that his daughter is not a member of that community. Therefore, how can he possibly provide any information to someone seeking the advise of the Deaf community? The answer to that is, he can't.

Many parents consider themselves fortunate to have found this forum, and to have the opportunity to engage in a dialogue with those who have actually lived with deafness on a daily basis. They have already had their fill of the audist attitudes encountered in the hearing communities, and rick is just one more example of such. It is not the advise of the audists that parents come here seeking. It is the advise of the Deaf, and of hearing parents who have connected with the Deaf community.

Of course, there are always the select few, in which category rick is included, that seem to come here to promote their audist views, and let the Deaf community know just exactly how ill informed they are regarding their own deafness and their own experience. But they are quickly seen for exactly what they are, and there is no exception in rick's case.
 
rick48 said:
If you truly have read my posts as you claim then you would realize your erroneous assumption in refering to my child as Deaf when she considers herself to be deaf. Secondly, then you would also have known that I support the rights of parents to raise their child with whatever method that they have determined to be in their child's best intersts. Third, and I know this will be hard for you to understand, I have never stated that the method we chose for our child is the method that is best for any other child. Fourth, never claim to understand what it is like to be Deaf, that is your invented argument to justify a personal attack upon me. However, if you want to use that argument as supportive of your positions then the similar argument that you will never understand what it is like to be the hearing parent of a deaf child is equally valid.

Please show me a post where I have undermined ASL? Show me a post where I have stated that a child should never learn ASL. Show me a post where I have stated that all deaf children should be raised orally? You said you have just read my posts, so back up your statements with some proof.

Am I a fan of Deaf Culture, absolutely not. My experiences are very similar to that of many other similar parents who approached the Deaf community at approximately the same time period. Its funny that the same people who wonder why I still feel this way after all these years are the very same people who tell me I must accept the Deaf community's anger towards me for transgressions that occurred years in the past and which I had no part of.

Do I care what you or others who consider themselves Deaf say about me, absolutely not. I do not seek your acceptance or agreement with any of my posts nor do I care what the prevailing opinion on this particular forum is. If that was what I considered to be important then we would certainly have not chosen an implant for our daughter over twenty years ago! Actually it is kind of humorous that you feel so threatened by what one anonymous poster writes.

As I have stated many times in my posts, which you claim to have read, we were accepted with open arms into the much larger deaf community and it is to those deaf adults to whom I am forever grateful and fortunate to call my friends. Life is too short and there are too many other wonderful people out there to be concerned about a group that constantly tells others that they can never be a "part" of them or that they have to accept their "justifiable" anger towards them. However, my feelings are molded and shaped by my experiences, I am certain that if I had rejected the cochlear implant for my child and placed her in a school for the deaf we would have been accepted with open arms and I too would think that Deaf Culture is the greatest thing since sliced bread.

Finally, why am I here, again go back to my posts, at this point solely to address any misrepresentations regarding cochlear implants such as them being marketing as a "cure" and to address any questions from parents considering cis who are unfortunate enough to stumble into this forum.
Click to expand...

I am curious, how long were you a board member of AG Bell, and are you still? What do you think of the AG Bell protest against the pepsi commerical?
 
jillio said:
Exactly. He is obviously overly concerned with it, and fails to defend himself with accuracy. The wider "deaf community" that he refers to is the "oral only deaf community."

Likewise, he continues to state that he is here to correct mispresentations of the CI being presented as a "cure". Why is it then, that the majority of his posts have absolutely nothing to do with that issue, but rather with the issue of his disdain for the Deaf community and the individuals that claim membership in that group? It is evident that his motives are not as he represents them to be. Additionally, he claims to be here to provide advise to parents that request it. Parents come here seeking advise from the Deaf community, and he has already stated his disdain for such, and the fact that his daughter is not a member of that community. Therefore, how can he possibly provide any information to someone seeking the advise of the Deaf community? The answer to that is, he can't.

Many parents consider themselves fortunate to have found this forum, and to have the opportunity to engage in a dialogue with those who have actually lived with deafness on a daily basis. They have already had their fill of the audist attitudes encountered in the hearing communities, and rick is just one more example of such. It is not the advise of the audists that parents come here seeking. It is the advise of the Deaf, and of hearing parents who have connected with the Deaf community.

Of course, there are always the select few, in which category rick is included, that seem to come here to promote their audist views, and let the Deaf community know just exactly how ill informed they are regarding their own deafness and their own experience. But they are quickly seen for exactly what they are, and there is no exception in rick's case.
Click to expand...

U know..it is ironic...none of us have said anything about his daughter. Only to applaud him that his daughter is doing good.

Just because I hold the views against the philosophy the AGBell organization and the medical community has against ASL and the Deaf community, I am responsible for what happened with him 20 years ago? Get real!

I can see his hatred for the Deaf community and ASL between the lines. It is so transparent.

And I dont care if this post upsets others..I have ignored his attacks to the best as I can. Enough is enough.
 
shel90 said:
U know..it is ironic...none of us have said anything about his daughter. Only to applaud him that his daughter is doing good.

Just because I hold the views against the philosophy the AGBell organization and the medical community has against ASL and the Deaf community, I am responsible for what happened with him 20 years ago? Get real!

I can see his hatred for the Deaf community and ASL between the lines. It is so transparent.

And I dont care if this post upsets others..I have ignored his attacks to the best as I can. Enough is enough.
Click to expand...

Agreed. One doesn't even need to look between the lines to see it. He states it quite plainly. The only person he is attempting to assist is himself. He is here only to spew forth his long held resentment against a few. He is looking for revenge and a way to "even the score."

His noble claims of being here to assist parents has long ago become clearly false. He quite obviously has no concern for parents or the deaf children of today or tomorrow. It is all about him and his perceived slight of 20 years ago.
 
shel, jillio and flip,

Glad to see that you remain consistent in your responses. Say all you want about me for I do not care but shel, and this does not apply to you, my child has been personally attacked on this board.
 
And nice to see that you are consistent in your distorted motives.:wave:

Your child could not have possibly been "personally attacked" on this board. Your child does not post here.
 
rick48 said:
If you truly have read my posts as you claim then you would realize your erroneous assumption in refering to my child as Deaf when she considers herself to be deaf. Secondly, then you would also have known that I support the rights of parents to raise their child with whatever method that they have determined to be in their child's best intersts. Third, and I know this will be hard for you to understand, I have never stated that the method we chose for our child is the method that is best for any other child. Fourth, never claim to understand what it is like to be Deaf, that is your invented argument to justify a personal attack upon me. However, if you want to use that argument as supportive of your positions then the similar argument that you will never understand what it is like to be the hearing parent of a deaf child is equally valid.

Please show me a post where I have undermined ASL? Show me a post where I have stated that a child should never learn ASL. Show me a post where I have stated that all deaf children should be raised orally? You said you have just read my posts, so back up your statements with some proof.

Am I a fan of Deaf Culture, absolutely not. My experiences are very similar to that of many other similar parents who approached the Deaf community at approximately the same time period. Its funny that the same people who wonder why I still feel this way after all these years are the very same people who tell me I must accept the Deaf community's anger towards me for transgressions that occurred years in the past and which I had no part of.

Do I care what you or others who consider themselves Deaf say about me, absolutely not. I do not seek your acceptance or agreement with any of my posts nor do I care what the prevailing opinion on this particular forum is. If that was what I considered to be important then we would certainly have not chosen an implant for our daughter over twenty years ago! Actually it is kind of humorous that you feel so threatened by what one anonymous poster writes.

As I have stated many times in my posts, which you claim to have read, we were accepted with open arms into the much larger deaf community and it is to those deaf adults to whom I am forever grateful and fortunate to call my friends. Life is too short and there are too many other wonderful people out there to be concerned about a group that constantly tells others that they can never be a "part" of them or that they have to accept their "justifiable" anger towards them. However, my feelings are molded and shaped by my experiences, I am certain that if I had rejected the cochlear implant for my child and placed her in a school for the deaf we would have been accepted with open arms and I too would think that Deaf Culture is the greatest thing since sliced bread.

Finally, why am I here, again go back to my posts, at this point solely to address any misrepresentations regarding cochlear implants such as them being marketing as a "cure" and to address any questions from parents considering cis who are unfortunate enough to stumble into this forum.
Click to expand...

Rick - Excellent post! *hats off to you!*
 
rick48 said:
shel, jillio and flip,

Glad to see that you remain consistent in your responses. Say all you want about me for I do not care but shel, and this does not apply to you, my child has been personally attacked on this board.
Click to expand...

Well, then deal with that person as an individual instead of attacking all of us who dont agree with your views.
 
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