Sorenson shut down SIPRelay on July 31

[diehardbiker]

Again, wait 4 years and you all can be sorry and all I can do is give double middle fingers for NOT paying attention to whats going on and its all over and done. Whats left... you will see.

Dude, does airliner, and telecom companies gets money from FCC and FAA?
From what I know, customers that uses airliners and telcoms pay for the service they provided as opposed as relay, who pays for it? Deaf people? Or was it FCC?

If I ever run business, I will NEVER want our government to be my customer, I don't trust them!

you're not answering my question. let me repeat once more very slowly....

what.... law.... are.... you.... talking.... about? because you said "He [Mr. Hilbock] is obligated to follow the law set by congress so his hands are tied."


dude. business 101. merger & acquisition... ever heard of it? look at airlines and telecoms. there you go.

 

[Jiro]

Again, wait 4 years and you all can be sorry and all I can do is give double middle fingers for NOT paying attention to whats going on and its all over and done. Whats left... you will see.

so you're not gonna answer my question, I see. is it because you misspoke?

Dude, does airliner, and telecom companies gets money from FCC and FAA?

yes they do. For example - telecom companies receive billions of dollars from FCC for faster broadband technology and expansion.

From what I know, customers that uses airliners and telcoms pay for the service they provided as opposed as relay, who pays for it? Deaf people? Or was it FCC?

actually yes deaf people do pay for it... they do pay taxes, right? take a look at your cellphone bill and you will see FCC tax.

If I ever run business, I will NEVER want our government to be my customer, I don't trust them!

that's fine.

 

[diehardbiker]

Again, the information I know from inside is confidential and I can't share because I do not own the information thus I don't have authorization to share to answer your question. < see period in the end. That is all I can say, I do see and have grave concern for everybody who use and need relay services.

No, Im not misspoke, just my lips are tied.

Feel free see Ed’s Telecom Alert

 

[diehardbiker]

That's grants which happens once or twice every blue moon, not regular pay out by minutes like FCC does with providers on regular basis.

Sure, they granted Telcom to expansion, however Telcomm STILL charge their customers if they use them or not as opposed as Deaf don't pay directly to the relay providers like hearing people have to pay directly to telcoms, and guess what? They have to pay these taxes too.

If the operational costs had increased with telcoms, airliner, etc, what would they do to defray the cost? They can pass to customers, right? They do that all the times, BUT can relay provider pass the extra cost to relay users? FCC not allowed that, that's HUGE difference.

Did you pay a penny to relay provider? I don't think so!

yes they do. For example - telecom companies receive billions of dollars from FCC for faster broadband technology and expansion.


actually yes deaf people do pay for it... they do pay taxes, right? take a look at your cellphone bill and you will see FCC tax.

 

[Jiro]

That's grants which happens once or twice every blue moon, not regular pay out by minutes like FCC does with providers on regular basis.

Sure, they granted Telcom to expansion, however Telcomm STILL charge their customers if they use them or not as opposed as Deaf don't pay directly to the relay providers like hearing people have to pay directly to telcoms, and guess what? They have to pay these taxes too.

If the operational costs had increased with telcoms, airliner, etc, what would they do to defray the cost? They can pass to customers, right? They do that all the times, BUT can relay provider pass the extra cost to relay users? FCC not allowed that, that's HUGE difference.

Did you pay a penny to relay provider? I don't think so!

yes i did. taxes.

 

[diehardbiker]

A dollar or two on taxes? Is that joke your trying to make?

Did you pay at least a penny to a relay provider DIRECTLY, (taxes are not counted because your paying directly to FCC not relay provider)?

yes i did. taxes.

 

[Jiro]

Again, the information I know from inside is confidential and I can't share because I do not own the information thus I don't have authorization to share to answer your question. < see period in the end. That is all I can say, I do see and have grave concern for everybody who use and need relay services.

No, Im not misspoke, just my lips are tied.

Feel free see Ed’s Telecom Alert

um.... laws are public information.

in other word... you misspoke. and that's ok. who cares? we accept and move on. but what's not ok with me is you keep continuing this farce and backpedalling. I have no tolerance for that.

do you know why I'm asking you that question? because I know very well that it doesn't make any sense. Congress has nothing to do with it. FCC does. FCC has full authority over this matter. It's between FCC and VRS companies.

more and more VRS companies are dropping IP Relay service and that's a very bad news for us. it affects me. but the way you're raging around and saying stuff... it's vague, unconstructive, and factually wrong. that is even more damaging than VRS discontinuing IP relay service because it leads to confusion and misplaced blaming.

As you posted a link about ADA regarding relay service... Congress has given a full authority to FCC to regulate this service. The most constructive thing to do is to complain to FCC and Mr. Hilbock and explain how important this relay service is to you. If you believe Mr. Hilbock is unfit to do his job... then we should demand that he resigns.

But if nothing comes out of it... then next logical step is to contact Congress about it (via your Senator and Congressmen). Hopefully they will make an inquiry about it and/or make it a public issue.... meanings medias will talk about it in morning/evening news.

Congress has no authority to tell FCC what to do and what not to do but they can try to influence them.

so man the F up and admit your mistake. stop raging around. be smart.

 

[Jiro]

A dollar or two on taxes? Is that joke your trying to make?

huh? a joke? it's a fact. your line of questioning is a joke.

Did you pay at least a penny to a relay provider DIRECTLY, (taxes are not counted because your paying directly to FCC not relay provider)?

again... taxes.

taxes are the reason why relay providers were created.

 

[diehardbiker]

You can't spell his last name, LOL! Its Hilbok not hilbock.

You don't understand, congress made law which was ADA, and required those who can't use telephone as ordinary method gets accommodations, so FCC is required to follow whats outline in ADA law related to accommodation on telecommunication and create regulation from that law. What that means is that FCC can not allow normal hearing people using VRS, can't get 10 digit local number for relay system. FCC can not alter that part of law and get above it. If FCC has full authority, they could do anything they want but no, they have limitation on authority and still follow whats outline by congress.

The problem is too many hearing people abused 10 digit local number and used them mainly to get free long distance calls, making fraud calls like banks, hiding their true identity, etc and so on. IP relay is very easy to cover up, anyone can sign up for 10 digit local number and claimed to be Deaf or HoH. Employees in Relay providers are NOT HIPPA complaint and they are not allowed to obtain medical information proving whether a customer is Deaf or HOH. FCC do not allow them discriminate customer whether they are actually Deaf/HOH or not. That rule was decided by congress allowed ONLY specifically Deaf/HOH, not hearing people. Can FCC override that? NOPE! There is more behind this but this is to give you an general idea whats going on.

When you apply for relay, did relay provider ask you for medical evidences that you are Deaf or Hoh? Asked you for your drivers license? That didn't happen until late of last year. That part is what pissed me off the most as FCC lay blame entirely on provider and got away with the losses. FCC should have known better and fix that problem 5 years ago, if had FCC fixed that problem 5 years ago then we will not see SIPrelay and several other relay providers going out of business.

Too many people made up account using fake address and other information, where Relay provider can not verify enough, what can they do? Have I seen? Yes, you bet! I tried to blow the whistle on that one but because FCC not allowed them (Provider) to prevent them because of stupid check in the checkbox that they certify themselves as Deaf/HoH. I mean very recently! Guess what? Providers are required to pay back that was collected though frivolous accounts so that FCC don't chalk up the losses only the providers. Fair? I don't think so!

Ask yourself, WHY do you think FCC decided to take all account database to themselves and set up their own outreach program? Within a year or two, we won't be able to apply directly with relay provider anymore. Even new applicant will have to go to independent agency that FCC plan to establish. I believe that the agency will be HIPPA certified and able to access medical information of anyone.

um.... laws are public information.

in other word... you misspoke. and that's ok. who cares? we accept and move on. but what's not ok with me is you keep continuing this farce and backpedalling. I have no tolerance for that.

do you know why I'm asking you that question? because I know very well that it doesn't make any sense. Congress has nothing to do with it. FCC does. FCC has full authority over this matter. It's between FCC and VRS companies.

more and more VRS companies are dropping IP Relay service and that's a very bad news for us. it affects me. but the way you're raging around and saying stuff... it's vague, unconstructive, and factually wrong. that is even more damaging than VRS discontinuing IP relay service because it leads to confusion and misplaced blaming.

As you posted a link about ADA regarding relay service... Congress has given a full authority to FCC to regulate this service. The most constructive thing to do is to complain to FCC and Mr. Hilbock and explain how important this relay service is to you. If you believe Mr. Hilbock is unfit to do his job... then we should demand that he resigns.

But if nothing comes out of it... then next logical step is to contact Congress about it (via your Senator and Congressmen). Hopefully they will make an inquiry about it and/or make it a public issue.... meanings medias will talk about it in morning/evening news.

Congress has no authority to tell FCC what to do and what not to do but they can try to influence them.

so man the F up and admit your mistake. stop raging around. be smart.

 

[diehardbiker]

Again DID you pay DIRECTLY, I mean DIRECTLY to relay provider? Do you understand "DIRECTLY TO PROVIDER" I don't care about taxes because hearing people have to pay telcomm service fees, PLUS same tax we pay, only difference is we DON'T pay directly to provider for their service that they provide to us.

Did your relay provider send you the bills?

huh? a joke? it's a fact. your line of questioning is a joke.



again... taxes.

taxes are the reason why relay providers were created.

 

[Jiro]

You can't spell his last name, LOL! Its Hilbok not hilbock.

You don't understand, congress made law which was ADA, and required those who can't use telephone as ordinary method gets accommodations, so FCC is required to follow whats outline in ADA law related to accommodation on telecommunication and create regulation from that law. What that means is that FCC can not allow normal hearing people using VRS, can't get 10 digit local number for relay system. FCC can not alter that part of law and get above it. If FCC has full authority, they could do anything they want but no, they have limitation on authority and still follow whats outline by congress.

The problem is too many hearing people abused 10 digit local number and used them mainly to get free long distance calls, making fraud calls like banks, hiding their true identity, etc and so on. IP relay is very easy to cover up, anyone can sign up for 10 digit local number and claimed to be Deaf or HoH. Employees in Relay providers are NOT HIPPA complaint and they are not allowed to obtain medical information proving whether a customer is Deaf or HOH. FCC do not allow them discriminate customer whether they are actually Deaf/HOH or not. That rule was decided by congress allowed ONLY specifically Deaf/HOH, not hearing people. Can FCC override that? NOPE! There is more behind this but this is to give you an general idea whats going on.

but.... according to the link in your previous post - Ed’s Telecom Alert

Folks,

At one period in the past when people see VRS reimbursement rates above $7 per minute (not anymore now), naturally they want to get into the VRS business. So up to 52 VRS providers – majority were white label providers – were formed.

Unfortunately, with so many VRS providers and the difficulty of oversight by the FCC for so many providers, frauds were likely to happen and they did happen. So the FCC, DOJ, and FBI got into act and arrested quite a few of them.

The FCC upon realizing the flexibility (in other words, too many loopholes that nefarious individuals/providers took advantage of) of the VRS regulations was that caused the frauds so the FCC had to start constricting the VRS regulations to ensure that the regulations are followed by all VRS providers (both white label and certified). Sure enough, number of VRS providers were whittled down to 9 VRS providers: Convo, ZVRS, SVRS, Purple, SnapVRS, HealincVRS, GraciasVRS, CAAG, and Lifelink. HealincVRS and ZVRS had quite a few subcontracts. Viable's infrastructure was taken over by Snap!VRS after Viable itself went out of business following the FBI raids.

All of these 9 VRS went through fine-tooth comb review and investigation by the FCC which subsequently narrowed number of VRS providers down to 6 VRS providers: Convo, ZVRS, SVRS, Purple, GraciasVRS and CAAG. Purple recently bought the Healinc along with its other purchased VRS providers.

By this time, VRS providers still in business; those providers who do not have more than 1 million minutes a month (so far only one) realized that VRS is not a "lucrative" business.

....

So there are now 6 VRS certified providers; all still need to undergo further review by the FCC before final certification. However, my personal opinion is as we're so far down the road for having met the regulations so far, these listed VRS providers are for practical purposes VRS certified infinitely.

So what about other VRS providers that have VRS certification like these providers? AmericanVRS and HawkVRS? They are not providing service and if they do not come up with VRS plan to the FCC by the time of renewal, they will lose the VRS certification. AmericanVRS simply closed down. Others who had certification were taken over by other VRS providers.

The summary is now: one deaf-owned, two interpreter-owned and three VC-owned making total of 6 VRS providers now.

bottom line.... FCC has a full authority over this matter. nothing to do with Congress.

When you apply for relay, did relay provider ask you for medical evidences that you are Deaf or Hoh? Asked you for your drivers license? That didn't happen until late of last year. That part is what pissed me off the most as FCC lay blame entirely on provider and got away with the losses. FCC should have known better and fix that problem 5 years ago, if had FCC fixed that problem 5 years ago then we will not see SIPrelay and several other relay providers going out of business.

Too many people made up account using fake address and other information, where Relay provider can not verify enough, what can they do? Have I seen? Yes, you bet! I tried to blow the whistle on that one but because FCC not allowed them (Provider) to prevent them because of stupid check in the checkbox that they certify themselves as Deaf/HoH. I mean very recently! Guess what? Providers are required to pay back that was collected though frivolous accounts so that FCC don't chalk up the losses only the providers. Fair? I don't think so!

Ask yourself, WHY do you think FCC decided to take all account database to themselves and set up their own outreach program? Within a year or two, we won't be able to apply directly with relay provider anymore. Even new applicant will have to go to independent agency that FCC plan to establish. I believe that the agency will be HIPPA certified and able to access medical information of anyone.

why? because it's legal. as you've pointed out - it would be illegal for companies to ask if you're deaf or not. so what's a get-around for that to reduce frauds? you've just answered it. sounds like a great solution.

 

[Jiro]

Again DID you pay DIRECTLY, I mean DIRECTLY to relay provider? Do you understand "DIRECTLY TO PROVIDER" I don't care about taxes because hearing people have to pay telcomm service fees, PLUS same tax we pay, only difference is we DON'T pay directly to provider for their service that they provide to us.

Did your relay provider send you the bills?

what does that have to do with anything? exactly what point are you trying to get at?

 

[diehardbiker]

:roll:

DOJ and FBI are law enforcer for Congress that created law that's why they are involved.

Im tired of your acting like a (censored)

You never work inside relay provider and I did for 6 years. Your much less informed than me. I rest my case.

 

[dkf747]

he may not be a top boss but he IS Chief of the FCC's Disability Rights Office. He CAN influence Chairman's mind and apparently Mr. Hilbok is not doing a good job influencing Chairman's decision and lobbying for the deaf people.

You hit the nail right on the head. If the FCC is not listening to the needs of the Deaf then something is wrong. If his job just to say we have someone who is Deaf, or is it to get results?

 

[Jiro]

You hit the nail right on the head. If the FCC is not listening to the needs of the Deaf then something is wrong. If his job just to say we have someone who is Deaf, or is it to get results?

indeed! it could be political. or it could be incompetence. only one way to find out.... intense inquiry.

 

[diehardbiker]

You just said that! See my post #44

And we will not see relay service if it were not for ADA passed in 1992 and FCC will not even bother set up one in the first place.

indeed! it could be political. or it could be incompetence. only one way to find out.... intense inquiry.

 

[Jiro]

You just said that! See my post #44

And we will not see relay service if it were not for ADA passed in 1992 and FCC will not even bother set up one in the first place.

uh.... what you said and what he said are completely different. you still have not answered my question.

 

[diehardbiker]

Completely different? How so?

What he is saying is that FCC chairperson isn't listening to Deaf needs and that is fact! Why? Show me where bunch of Deafies doing protest and making noises with FCC? From what I see, most Deaf people are tucked in warm cozy comforter on top of them and gone sleep!

I'm trying to rock the boat, but it falls on hearing ears.

Guess no one is gonna wake up and eventually it will be way too late to fix.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0FEdIdKJaQ

Don't forget, Mr. Hilbok at FCC can't do all the work by himself. I bet you my ass that he does need your help but guess you all are busy sleeping.

uh.... what you said and what he said are completely different. you still have not answered my question.

 

[Jiro]

Completely different? How so?

look at your previous post and then look at his post. completely different. again... you still haven't answered my question. that's the big difference.

What he is saying is that FCC chairperson isn't listening to Deaf needs and that is fact! Why? Show me where bunch of Deafies doing protest and making noises with FCC? From what I see, most Deaf people are tucked in warm cozy comforter on top of them and gone sleep!

I'm trying to rock the boat, but it falls on hearing ears.

Guess no one is gonna wake up and eventually it will be way too late to fix.

that is perfectly fine to rock the boat to gain awareness.... but the way you are doing it.... it's a wonder why nobody's responding well to it.

the most effective way to gain attention and spread awareness to get people involved is FACTS FACTS FACTS. not whining, conspiracy theory, "I wish I can tell you but it's classified" excuse, vague blanket comment, etc... that's not gonna fly.

I too am very concerned about this issue but your posts do not convince me. It only causes me to get more confused and skeptical. so what's next?

 

[Jiro]

Don't forget, Mr. Hilbok at FCC can't do all the work by himself. I bet you my ass that he does need your help but guess you all are busy sleeping.

so what are YOU doing about it?