Some restaurant owners worry about customers openly carrying guns

Seb, do you consider rope a weapon? You get someone coming at you with a piece of rope are you going to tell them to drop it or shoot if they dont?
Me, if they dont drop it and keep coming, they are getting shot til its dropped. Do you know how lethal a piece of rope is?
I swear people have no common sense about self defense, what can be used to cause severe bodily harm.... Give me 3 feet of rope and watch the damage that can be done, maybe it would change your outlook. NEVER underestimate your opponent or their choice of weapons. MATTER FACT.... You dont even need a weapon to be dangerous... meet someone who is skilled in martial arts, hands and feet are deadly weapons and most once achieving blackbelt status have to register hands/feet as deadly weapons. Got a few friends in MMA and my daughter is blackbelt... At the age of 12 she could whoop an adult, now at 22 I wouldnt want to piss her off.
But as a police officer, you dont know what a stranger is capitable of that is charging you... youre going to stop that threat and go home to your family.
Back to that rope, Ill let you in on that... in the blink of an eye, I can have you on the ground hog tied, I could break both your arms/legs in seconds... now, let me just get it around someones neck... you are a dancing puppet. 20 feet and its firing time. Check out some youtube videos, educate yourself in self defense because an aggressor thrives on stupidity, but will cower and run if they see someone prepared to defend themselves unless high on drugs or just plain whacko.
 
sonocativo said:
Seb, do you consider rope a weapon? You get someone coming at you with a piece of rope are you going to tell them to drop it or shoot if they dont?
Me, if they dont drop it and keep coming, they are getting shot til its dropped. Do you know how lethal a piece of rope is?
I swear people have no common sense about self defense, what can be used to cause severe bodily harm.... Give me 3 feet of rope and watch the damage that can be done, maybe it would change your outlook. NEVER underestimate your opponent or their choice of weapons. MATTER FACT.... You dont even need a weapon to be dangerous... meet someone who is skilled in martial arts, hands and feet are deadly weapons and most once achieving blackbelt status have to register hands/feet as deadly weapons. Got a few friends in MMA and my daughter is blackbelt... At the age of 12 she could whoop an adult, now at 22 I wouldnt want to piss her off.
But as a police officer, you dont know what a stranger is capitable of that is charging you... youre going to stop that threat and go home to your family.
Back to that rope, Ill let you in on that... in the blink of an eye, I can have you on the ground hog tied, I could break both your arms/legs in seconds... now, let me just get it around someones neck... you are a dancing puppet. 20 feet and its firing time. Check out some youtube videos, educate yourself in self defense because an aggressor thrives on stupidity, but will cower and run if they see someone prepared to defend themselves unless high on drugs or just plain whacko.
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Yeah have you seen the movie called 'Rope' by Alfred Hitchcock , the piece of rope wasn't very long was it was used as a weapon.
 
sonocativo said:
Seb, do you consider rope a weapon? You get someone coming at you with a piece of rope are you going to tell them to drop it or shoot if they dont?
Me, if they dont drop it and keep coming, they are getting shot til its dropped. Do you know how lethal a piece of rope is?
I swear people have no common sense about self defense, what can be used to cause severe bodily harm.... Give me 3 feet of rope and watch the damage that can be done, maybe it would change your outlook. NEVER underestimate your opponent or their choice of weapons. MATTER FACT.... You dont even need a weapon to be dangerous... meet someone who is skilled in martial arts, hands and feet are deadly weapons and most once achieving blackbelt status have to register hands/feet as deadly weapons. Got a few friends in MMA and my daughter is blackbelt... At the age of 12 she could whoop an adult, now at 22 I wouldnt want to piss her off.
But as a police officer, you dont know what a stranger is capitable of that is charging you... youre going to stop that threat and go home to your family.
Back to that rope, Ill let you in on that... in the blink of an eye, I can have you on the ground hog tied, I could break both your arms/legs in seconds... now, let me just get it around someones neck... you are a dancing puppet. 20 feet and its firing time. Check out some youtube videos, educate yourself in self defense because an aggressor thrives on stupidity, but will cower and run if they see someone prepared to defend themselves unless high on drugs or just plain whacko.
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Almost anything can be used as a weapon, but there has to be common sense used to determine intent and that is where the police are coming up short. Deadly force doesn't have to be used in many of these cases when their self defense training and baton can be used instead and lets not even mention their tasers. Many cops have been guilty of committing murder and the only thing that has kept them out of prison is they are being investigated by their own peers on the force. I guess you haven't seen people disarmed by people who are trained to do it, you just went to the part of when can I shoot him dead!
 
Lau2046 said:
The cops certainly knew who the threat was in California and none of the victims were armed, just as the terrorists expected...in a "gun free zone." More often then not, when responding to a call, the cops get it right. Unfortunately when mistakes happen, and they do, the liberal press draws it out so long, it makes the people forget the good cops doing their job well.

Laura
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What you have to remember is the police are trained not to make mistakes and I am quoting the head of my local police union on that. If they make a mistake than they should be either put up on charges for murder or removed from the force. We aren't talking about someone who makes a mistake and costs his company money, we are talking about someone who is given the power to end a life.
 
Thats because today in this time, you dont know what theyre capable of doing.

there is sooo much lack of common sense today, un-educated people and with the economy most are just in the game for suicide. If they survive another day, they just try again tomorrow. Then you have career criminals, they dont want a life outside the bars, they cant survive so its another crime for another life in prison ( free handouts from the government and still maintain their thug life...
**** No, you took it a little out of concept. If they quit coming at you or drop the weapons and comply, they will see tomorrow.... if not, then they are on a suicide mission, simple as that.
 
seb said:
What you have to remember is the police are trained not to make mistakes and I am quoting the head of my local police union on that. If they make a mistake than they should be either put up on charges for murder or removed from the force. We aren't talking about someone who makes a mistake and costs his company money, we are talking about someone who is given the power to end a life.
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I agree, and that is called corruption, its everywhere with people of authority.
 
seb said:
Almost anything can be used as a weapon, but there has to be common sense used to determine intent and that is where the police are coming up short. Deadly force doesn't have to be used in many of these cases when their self defense training and baton can be used instead and lets not even mention their tasers. Many cops have been guilty of committing murder and the only thing that has kept them out of prison is they are being investigated by their own peers on the force. I guess you haven't seen people disarmed by people who are trained to do it, you just went to the part of when can I shoot him dead!
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Ban gasoline....

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/12/2...e-on-christmas-day-arrested.html?intcmp=hpbt4
 
seb said:
No, the problem here is cops not being able to distinguish between a non lethal threat and a lethal one. As I said they need to be able to reason out whether something is or isn't a threat.
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Every situation is different and sometimes cops do cross the line but very often cops have a split second to determine what is and isn't a lethal threat. Later, with multiple camera angles, a rewind button and no adrenaline or fear it's a lot easier to judge.

seb said:
What you have to remember is the police are trained not to make mistakes and I am quoting the head of my local police union on that. If they make a mistake than they should be either put up on charges for murder or removed from the force. We aren't talking about someone who makes a mistake and costs his company money, we are talking about someone who is given the power to end a life.
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You can train to make fewer mistakes but cops are still human.
 
and do you know at 20 feet, if someone charges you.... you dont have time to draw your weapon.

a lot of arguing here but no common sense, also a lot of lack of knowledge in self defense / tactical issues.

I took the training to be a cop, a firefighter. I trained with my buddies in their war games while they were in the services ( I couldnt join the services due to hearing ) but the war games were not on bases, they were held at private properties owned by some of the guys, and its amazing what you learn ( more than any cop who has never served) but you would be amazed at what someone can be capable of ding with minimal weapons and just everyday harmless looking objects.

Argue all you want, todays society is sad... everyone offended for the way we look, what we do, putting the blame on inanimate objects because of everyones stupidity.
If the government really wants to make revenue, Tax stupidity and if they cant pay then lock them away from the general society and take care of them.

Ok have fun, I like pushing buttons...lol

Opps squirrel..... click, blam...schuffle schuffle.... Sizzle....yummmmmmmmmmmm
 
sonocativo said:
I agree, and that is called corruption, its everywhere with people of authority.
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And if it's in the police force, it needs to be cleaned up. Unfortunately, it's been in law enforcement since the beginning and it will probably always be there. When you have the hens guarding the hen house, you're in trouble.
 
jonnyghost said:
Every situation is different and sometimes cops do cross the line but very often cops have a split second to determine what is and isn't a lethal threat. Later, with multiple camera angles, a rewind button and no adrenaline or fear it's a lot easier to judge.



You can train to make fewer mistakes but cops are still human.
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They are trained to not make mistakes and they are paid very well to do so. The problem is the police rarely take a step back to try and defuse the situation, they tell the person to do something and if they don't do it, they shoot them, end of story!
 
sonocativo said:
Thats because today in this time, you dont know what theyre capable of doing.

there is sooo much lack of common sense today, un-educated people and with the economy most are just in the game for suicide. If they survive another day, they just try again tomorrow. Then you have career criminals, they dont want a life outside the bars, they cant survive so its another crime for another life in prison ( free handouts from the government and still maintain their thug life...
**** No, you took it a little out of concept. If they quit coming at you or drop the weapons and comply, they will see tomorrow.... if not, then they are on a suicide mission, simple as that.
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But it goes both ways, the police also have or use very little common sense, I've known a good number of people who were in law enforcement and of all of them I would say all but one had a good degree of common sense. The others when they made a decision, you were left shaking your head saying what is he thinking?
 
I'm not sure how citizens with open carry became a thread about police shootings.

Anyway, the media covers the police shootings that go bad. They don't cover the events where the threat was neutralized without any fatalities. They don't cover the events where police pulled their weapons but didn't fire them. They don't cover the events where the police were fired upon before they pulled their guns. At least, not in the same proportions that they cover events where the police fatally shoot someone.

Please note also, that more of the bad police shootings are being aired to the public (not hushed up or covered up) and prosecuted. That's progress, is it not?
 
Reba said:
I'm not sure how citizens with open carry became a thread about police shootings.

Anyway, the media covers the police shootings that go bad. They don't cover the events where the threat was neutralized without any fatalities. They don't cover the events where police pulled their weapons but didn't fire them. They don't cover the events where the police were fired upon before they pulled their guns. At least, not in the same proportions that they cover events where the police fatally shoot someone.

Please note also, that more of the bad police shootings are being aired to the public (not hushed up or covered up) and prosecuted. That's progress, is it not?
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Being the position they are in, they dont have an hour to ponder what the next step is... for example if you were in their shoes, are you going to wonder if they are going to hurt/kill you once approached? Or are you going to shoot and go home to your family? Id much rather shoot if Im fearing for my life than my family digging a hole for me. Thats the shoot first ask later scenario... Same with military .

The media doesnt cover but what they want...wait... what uncle sam pays them to cover, so they can slip the next official into offices..... so they can again and or keep the sheeps in line by brainwashing, leading them to believe what ever it may be...in this case guns are bad and so-so is best.. remember elections are fast approaching.
 
sonocativo said:
Being the position they are in, they dont have an hour to ponder what the next step is... for example if you were in their shoes, are you going to wonder if they are going to hurt/kill you once approached? Or are you going to shoot and go home to your family? Id much rather shoot if Im fearing for my life than my family digging a hole for me. Thats the shoot first ask later scenario... Same with military .
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Of course. But anyone involved in a shooting should expect to be held accountable after. That doesn't mean don't shoot, just be prepared to be questioned.

The media doesnt cover but what they want...wait... what uncle sam pays them to cover, so they can slip the next official into offices..... so they can again and or keep the sheeps in line by brainwashing, leading them to believe what ever it may be...in this case guns are bad and so-so is best.. remember elections are fast approaching.
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I didn't mean the media was covering up. I meant the police departments. Thanks to FOIA the public has access to documents and videos for shootings, so it's harder for policy agencies to sweep things under the rug.

Yes, I know that elections are fast approaching--we vote in the primaries Feb. 20 (Rep) and 27 (Dem).
 
Reba, I was jus speaking in general... the government pays the media to sway the public interests and to mislead them as well, thats how the government controls the minds.

Take away the media, guess what? Racism and all that other crap goes out the window too. Uncle sam wouldnt want that to happen.
 
sonocativo said:
This is from tactical training..
If someone is heavily armed and full body armor, you find the weak points to shoot at, usually neck, sholders, groin and ankles.
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In the scenario given, I don't think the shooter was armored at all, and the cops he was referring to weren't SWAT.

As you know, the average cop isn't a sharpshooter.

If they are behind something ( lets say a car ) you go at the ankles ( and yes observing the surroundings, whas behind that point ) and if their are some idiots standing around during an all out shootout... well, hate to say.
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If they are behind a car, they're usually in an area of the car's body where the wheels block the view of their legs/feet. Also, to hit someone below the car's frame requires lying on the ground with a rifle, possibly exposed to the shooter's view. The shot has to be parallel to the ground, not angled down, or else it will ricochet off the pavement.

Anyways, you hit that ankle, what happens, yep they fall, what also happens? Anyone knows?
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Maybe they fall into view, maybe not.

EXACTLY !!!! You now have a new angle to get a shot under that body armour. You now have lung shots, head shots, bottom of feet up through legs, arms.... the whole new ball game opened up as the body armour is for direct frontal hits, wasnt designed for up and down angles.
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Maybe, maybe not. Depends on how the shooter falls, and the position of the police marksmen.

So, if youre gonna carry, and you plan to use to protect yourself... you better get some training.

( not directed at Reba, just backing whats posted)
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Funny you should mention that. TCS and I are gifting ourselves with some advanced courses locally soon, and maybe even a longer course out of state (next year).

Of course, that's still at the personal level; we aren't going to be professionals.

TCS will be able to do more levels than I will be able to. I physically can't do certain motor activities due to my Parkinson's.

Parkinson's Disease. :rifle:
 
sonocativo said:
Reba, I was jus speaking in general... the government pays the media to sway the public interests and to mislead them as well, thats how the government controls the minds.
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OK--just wanted to be sure I was clear. :)

Take away the media, guess what? Racism and all that other crap goes out the window too. Uncle sam wouldnt want that to happen.
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The media do make a difference.

I confess, I was a member of the media for almost 24 years, and a graduate of basic and advanced courses at the Defense Information School, so I have some experience with that. One course I took in college for my political science major was "Propaganda and Brainwashing"--very interesting.
 
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