So, will the deaf culture be there?

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Yeah, it might actually help increase the paranoia around here.
 
Accursed magnetic devices... they confounded me as to how they function...
 
:lol: yeah it is evolving everything about everyone's in this thread too. yeahhh Life goes on! :D
 
Just speaking to whoever that wasn't solid on DNA engineering:
It still early right now to have something like this happen.. although 200+ years is way more than enough to start seeing this become reality.

See this timeline for details if it doesn't bore you to death in the middle:
BIO | Time Line

Recombinant insulin started around the 1980's.. 3-4 years after they created the first prototype.

I guess I am too into this stuff.. but having taken my share of microbio and cell biology, the key point is that things are occurring exponentially, not just one step at a time.
 
naisho said:
Just speaking to whoever that wasn't solid on DNA engineering:
It still early right now to have something like this happen.. although 200+ years is way more than enough to start seeing this become reality.

See this timeline for details if it doesn't bore you to death in the middle:
BIO | Time Line

Recombinant insulin started around the 1980's.. 3-4 years after they created the first prototype.

I guess I am too into this stuff.. but having taken my share of microbio and cell biology, the key point is that things are occurring exponentially, not just one step at a time.
Click to expand...

Yay science geek!!! :applause:
 
Well, to those who are being implanted with CI are still Deaf, period. I wouldn't agree with a new evolving term "CI culture"...is because it is still Deaf culture anyway.
 
So, I was commenting on another blog and this thought crossed my mind:

So, let's pretend that at some point in the future all deaf kids are implanted or whatever, and they are able to learn spoken language. Is this cultural genocide by hearing parents or parents just giving their children the opportunity to have everything?

And, if the Deaf community doesn't change to accept and embrace these people, aren't they then just allowing themselves to die out? If the changed and evolved wouldn't there not be a "genocide"?
 
Faire jour, even with the good quality of hearing that CI gives to deaf children, the quality of hearing still varies. Every thing I have read (and every audi) says that end hearing from a CI varies immensely! . Exactly like how one person with severe-profound loss could be functionally hoh with aids, but another one might only be able to get 50% or 60% of words with their aids.
CI kids are functionally hoh. There are MANY hoh as kids folks involved in Deaf culture. Being Deaf isn't a point on an audiogram.
Many of the kids who are doing OK orally now, may return to Deaf ed and ASL around 3rd or 4th grade (when things get a lot harder) or around middle school/high school Just b/c a kid has OK verbal skills, it doesn't mean that ASL and Deaf culture wouldn't be helpful. Heck we have a lot of hoh folks here who say they wish they'd learned ASL and been exposed to Deaf culture.
Oh, and also, I think many of the parents who have mainstreamed their kids are going to be VERY frustrated with the mainstream. A BIG part of the reason why dhh ed programs and Deaf Schools still exist is b/c of the frustration that many parents have with public school "minimal accomondation" programs.
Granted some profoundly deaf kids won't have ASL as a first language....That's actually kind of cool that severe language delays for deaf kids won't be the norm. They'll just have a lot of hoh speech issues.....and many hoh as kids folks still have signficient spoken language issues. But the fact is that there are HUGE downsides to only having one tool in the toolbox. I am *only* hoh, BUT I've been yelled at for talking too loudly MANY times, parents and speech therapists and teachers corrected my speech etc etc
Not to mention that oral only is very exhausing (and I say that as a VERY orally skilled person who is an AURAL learner) and it is pretty much like living an eternal speech therapy session!
 
:roll:

I was asking about a hypothetical future in which technology has allowed all deaf kids to learn and use spoken language, not today.
 
Oh there are also kids who have significent apraxia or other issues inhibiting their speech due to syndromes (and they are out there in numbers) I doubt that ASL and Deaf culture is going anywhere any time soon. Not to mention that many "oral sucesses" seem to find ASL and Deaf culture extremely helpful.
It seems to fill a psychological void. Instead of living in an eternal speech therapy session, we can just be ourselves, and REALLY REALLY thrive.
Which reminds me......One of the BIGGEST issues I have with oral only (and thinking that oral only is "enough" for a toolbox) is that it's hyperfocused on "normality" Look at the ads in Volta Voices for example. The ads for the AVT and oral programs use language that makes it sound like " your child can be NORMAL and there's NO downside to speech speech and more speech.
It stigmatizes "speshal needs" stuff which COULD be very helpful. It doesn't acknowledge the negative psychological impact that an eternal speech therapy session has on dhh kids!
 
faire_jour said:
So, I was commenting on another blog and this thought crossed my mind:

So, let's pretend that at some point in the future all deaf kids are implanted or whatever, and they are able to learn spoken language. Is this cultural genocide by hearing parents or parents just giving their children the opportunity to have everything?

And, if the Deaf community doesn't change to accept and embrace these people, aren't they then just allowing themselves to die out? If the changed and evolved wouldn't there not be a "genocide"?
Click to expand...

Like a twisted, inverted version of Rabbit-Proof Fence?
 
As was I faire jour. Many dhh kids learn ASL as a second language b/c of the downsides of oral only Heck it's BEYOND common for oral dhh folks to have significent spoken language delays as well as pragmatic social issues. (pereninal topic at the Clarke School Mainstream conference you know!)
Mastery of spoken language does not mean other tools wouldn't be useful. I say that as a hoh kid, who actually has a very high verbal IQ. You need to look at the hoh population (and not just the AG Bell superstars/overacheivers) to see how your hypothesis will work out.Hoh kids are STILL at a disadvantage in a lot of ways you know!
Some of the kids will be "almost hearing" but many others will prolly be dog paddling and discover ASL after "experts" and docs tell their families that "they don't need it"
Your hypothesis is EXACTLY what happened with the pediatric blind/low vision population.
The focus was on teaching kids to use their residual vision at ALL costs as well as books on tape. It was thought that other sensory methods would inhibit acheivement or that they didn't "need" it.
Fast forward a few years...Guess what? The people doing the best in life were the ones....GASP who were Braille literate (traditional Blind school methods which were phased out due to "improved technology......heck one of my friends went to Perkins and didn't even learn Braille while he was there!)
 
deafdyke said:
As was I faire jour. Many dhh kids learn ASL as a second language b/c of the downsides of oral only Heck it's BEYOND common for oral dhh folks to have significent spoken language delays as well as pragmatic social issues. (pereninal topic at the Clarke School Mainstream conference you know!)
Mastery of spoken language does not mean other tools wouldn't be useful. I say that as a hoh kid, who actually has a very high verbal IQ. You need to look at the hoh population (and not just the AG Bell superstars/overacheivers) to see how your hypothesis will work out.Hoh kids are STILL at a disadvantage in a lot of ways you know!
Some of the kids will be "almost hearing" but many others will prolly be dog paddling and discover ASL after "experts" and docs tell their families that "they don't need it"
Your hypothesis is EXACTLY what happened with the pediatric blind/low vision population.
The focus was on teaching kids to use their residual vision at ALL costs as well as books on tape. It was thought that other sensory methods would inhibit acheivement or that they didn't "need" it.
Fast forward a few years...Guess what? The people doing the best in life were the ones....GASP who were Braille literate (traditional Blind school methods which were phased out due to "improved technology......heck one of my friends went to Perkins and didn't even learn Braille while he was there!)
Click to expand...

In the past, some oral deaf people have had delays, but I am talking about a future. Clearly you believe that there is no such things as actual oral success. You believe that spoken language = delays. I disagree.
 
souggy said:
Like a twisted, inverted version of Rabbit-Proof Fence?
Click to expand...

Oh Souggy, that film is such serious heartbreak. But what do you mean? Are you making an analogy to our children being taken away to be brought up by well-intentioned, though seriously misguided officials/teachers in some idealized Deaf world, rather than with their own families, in their own culture? I'd definitely walk that trail to keep my daughter with me!
 
faire_jour said:
So, I was commenting on another blog and this thought crossed my mind:

So, let's pretend that at some point in the future all deaf kids are implanted or whatever, and they are able to learn spoken language. Is this cultural genocide by hearing parents or parents just giving their children the opportunity to have everything?

And, if the Deaf community doesn't change to accept and embrace these people, aren't they then just allowing themselves to die out? If the changed and evolved wouldn't there not be a "genocide"?
Click to expand...

I'm more concern about the gov't ruling that all deaf children must be implanted if they are a candidate or their children will be taken away from them. Now that's genocide.

As for rest, I'm concern about the isolation for deaf people who struggle with CI than I am with lost deaf culture.
 
deafgal001 said:
I'm more concern about the gov't ruling that all deaf children must be implanted if they are a candidate or their children will be taken away from them. Now that's genocide.

As for rest, I'm concern about the isolation for deaf people who struggle with CI than I am with lost deaf culture.
Click to expand...

That is not genocide. Genocide is if they demand they abort these children.
 
My humble opinion for what it's worth is that deaf culture is not going anywhere. Werent' the deafies worried about the same things back when the HA's came out?
 
GrendelQ said:
Oh Souggy, that film is such serious heartbreak. But what do you mean? Are you making an analogy to our children being taken away to be brought up by well-intentioned, though seriously misguided officials/teachers in some idealized Deaf world, rather than with their own families, in their own culture? I'd definitely walk that trail to keep my daughter with me!
Click to expand...

It's not so much the movie itself, but the history behind the movie. I was referring to the "Lost Generation" or "Stolen Generation" within the Aboriginal and First Nations communities. Many people within those communities see people ("half-breed" or "half-caste") who are born to white families as part of their extended families, even if they are two or three generations removed or look more white than native/aboriginal. The Deaf sees deaf babies as extended family of their own. Understand there is no "forceful" removal within the American Deaf society, however the "extended family" viewpoint is still there and is still valid-- so the Deaf's cry of "cultural genocide" is just as valid as the Aboriginal or First Nations' cries.
 
rockdrummer said:
My humble opinion for what it's worth is that deaf culture is not going anywhere. Werent' the deafies worried about the same things back when the HA's came out?
Click to expand...

Yes, but it changes the rules of the game a bit. With hearing aids, usually severe and moderate hearing losses gain the benefits; with cochlear implants, the profound gains the benefit. So effectively, the only people who don't get any benefit at all are the ones with nerve damages or APD. So, yes, Deaf culture will still be there, but it won't be the same one as we saw a decade or three ago. Now you understand?

It is not that the Deaf culture will cease to exist, it just won't be the same as it was a half a century ago. And people fear changes. Whether or not it's a good thing or not, I don't know. That's why we have "conservatives" and "progressives" in politics. ;) One tries to advance forward whether or not it's good for society, the other takes heed and be cautious of dangerous decisions in favour of status quo.
 
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