Signing exact English (SEE) Resources

rockdrummer said:
I thought I read somewhere poor English reading and comprehension skills in deaf students were why some of the MCE systems came about. The average deaf student was leaving high school with 4th grade English skills. I don't know what the numbers are today. If anyone has access to the stats please post a resource.

thanks
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RD, my rudimentary and basic view of this is: A deaf child is obviously a very visual being; therefore, a teacher of the deaf (whether deaf or hearing) must be of native-like skill in both ASL and English to guide the child to literacy in English FROM that child's first language, ASL. Teachers of those skills are rare, indeed. There are not nearly enough of them to fill all of the classes for the deaf in this country to, once and for all, prove that bi-lingual education is the answer. What we see today, because of this lack of enough of those kinds of teachers, is lip service to bilingualism because the vast majority of deaf/hearing teachers only present half of what's required. That is the simplest face I can put on this......
 
Tousi said:
RD, my rudimentary and basic view of this is: A deaf child is obviously a very visual being; therefore, a teacher of the deaf (whether deaf or hearing) must be of native-like skill in both ASL and English to guide the child to literacy in English FROM that child's first language, ASL. Teachers of those skills are rare, indeed. There are not nearly enough of them to fill all of the classes for the deaf in this country to, once and for all, prove that bi-lingual education is the answer. What we see today, because of this lack of enough of those kinds of teachers, is lip service to bilingualism because the vast majority of deaf/hearing teachers only present half of what's required. That is the simplest face I can put on this......
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Excellent points.

I believe you've also shed light on how deaf Americans acquired English literacy in the pre-SEE days. Back then, most deaf education was done in deaf residential schools by deaf or CODA instructors, who either were themselves graduates of the deaf schools, or children of those graduates. That makes sense.
 
Reba said:
Excellent points.

I believe you've also shed light on how deaf Americans acquired English literacy in the pre-SEE days. Back then, most deaf education was done in deaf residential schools by deaf or CODA instructors, who either were themselves graduates of the deaf schools, or children of those graduates. That makes sense.
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The need of early language acquisition, ASL and English can/does begin at home for some DOHA. However, when this need is not met for the emerging language learner, (for a wide variety of reasons), placing the responsibility for language fluency/literacy solely on the shoulders of the school system doesn't
truly address the issue.
 
loml said:
The need of early language acquisition, ASL and English can/does begin at home for some DOHA. However, when this need is not met for the emerging language learner, (for a wide variety of reasons), placing the responsibility for language fluency/literacy solely on the shoulders of the school system doesn't truly address the issue.
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Well, the acquisition of language should be during the pre-school years. Then, the schools start the formal language and literacy instruction period. But the children should have acquired fluency in a native language prior to attending school. If they they don't learn a language until school age, then precious irretrievable learning time has been lost.
 
Reba said:
Be careful using Wikipedia as a source.

It's difficult to teach any second language if the child isn't fluent in a first language.

If a deaf American child is fluent in ASL as a first language, then English can be taught as a second language.

English does have a visual form--that is the printed word. Of course, printed words themselves are just two-dimensional; it's our minds that give the words dimension, feeling, and movement.

If a child can't communicate fluently in any language, then how can he even follow directions in school? How can he know that he's supposed to pay attention to the teacher, sit quietly during instruction, raise his hand to go to the bathroom, and socialize properly with the other kids? Without grounding in a native language, how can he make application of the two-dimensional written words to the real-life three-dimensional world?

I'm not an "educator", so maybe someone else can answer those questions.

I'm also curious about how Deaf people learned to read and write English prior to the invention of SEE? Obviously they were literate long before SEE was developed, so they must have used other methods. I've read things written by Deaf people who lived prior to SEE, and their English composition was just fine. I need to do more research on that.

BTW, I'm not criticizing people who use PSE or SEE forms for communication. If deaf adults prefer those modes, that's totally up to them, and if that's what they want interpreted, that's also fine with me.
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U are so right on the spot, Reba.

Deaf children during those times were fluent in ASL as their first language hence making learning English or becoming fluent in it much more easier.
 
Reba said:
Well, the acquisition of language should be during the pre-school years. Then, the schools start the formal language and literacy instruction period. But the children should have acquired fluency in a native language prior to attending school. If they they don't learn a language until school age, then precious irretrievable learning time has been lost.
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And that's the issue we, as deaf educators, struggle with. We want to teach them what's required of the curriculm but if they dont have a first language yet, then it is impossible. They need a strong foundation of language first and that should occur during the pre-school years not when they are 10 or 11 years old which seems to be a common age to introduce many deaf children to ASL.
 
rockdrummer said:
I am sure there are variations and exceptions to the rule as everyone is different. There is clearly controversy in this and many areas of deaf education where it's been clear to me that one size does not fit all. What works well for one may not work for others. MCE's are a way of making English visual. I am no expert but I would have to imagine it would be difficult to teach English to a pre-lingually profoundly deaf child without the ability to make it visual. There is an article on Wikipedia regarding SEE that may be worth reading to some. I read it and it seems to be fair and objective.

Signing Exact English - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Print makes English visable. That is the mode used to teach English to ASL based kids in a bi-bi environment.
 
I will be in the literacy field when I graduate. Specifically ASL as a first language to reinforce with babies, small toddlers and working with families as well.

We emphasize the use of ASL first for language acquisition. ASL is a visual and spatial language.

Second comes English. ASL is used to facilitate English acquisition.

SEE would severely hinder English acquisition when ASL is used first.

ASL has classifiers that explains English, structures and formats.
 
Reba said:
The website that you linked has a dictionary of only 14 words. Is there another one?
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I just checked again today and they still only have 14 words. Kind of disappointing. I was hoping they would be moving it along but it doesn't appear to be that way.
 
OK, here is some information to assist you with SEE1 signs. Just keep in mind that there are 2, competing(?) SEE sign systems. SEE1 (Seeing Essential English/Morpheme Sign System) als David Anthony and SEE2, Signing Exact English, ala Guftason(?). SEE1 has a lot of information available at: www.amaisd.org/mss and at: Welcome to NDCLB.

Years ago, Gustafson and Anthony (originally co-authors) split. She tkk the (then) SE dictionary, calling it Signing Exact English to be used as a basis for her doctrinal thesis at Gallaudet.

Anthony (and others) expanded and further developed SEE1, now commonly called MSS, to a word vocabulary bank that rivals written and spoken English.

On line you should find the "code-breaker" and the latest information on SEE1/MSS signs,
but you need to get familiar with the code-breaker to fully understand and implement the rather extensive dictionary.

Additional information may be had by contacting Dr. Wanda Milburn at Box 634, Vega, TX 79092, where she continues to refine, develop and promulgate SEE1/MSS.

Anthony is departed the project after years of controversy and rejection. He remains a good friend and correspondent. He lives in Boulder, CO.

Hammond Ham
 
Madam, I fear that you have been misinformed as to the ability for (even) babies to acquire language (any language). In our society, English is the most common mode of verbal communications while ASL (great as it may be) is self limiting and accounts for the dismal failure of academia to instill English. Test scores show that a predominant number of deaf are inadequately skilled in English, as a result, many are functionally illiterate, under or unemployable, living outside the mainstream of society. For that reason, solomente, I favor using SEE1/MSS to instill English. The deaf will acquire ASL as a matter of living in and around other deaf people. It does not HAVE to be taught, they acquire it "via osmosis" from their surroundings. From a purely "technical viewpoint", the deaf (to whatever degree) SHOULD learn English as their PRIMARY language or live forever under the control of people who would keep them "under their thumbs", having to depend on "others" to meagerly deal out their life essentials from big government, churches, social organizations, family and friends.

Sadly, the deaf have become "chattle pawns". I do not want that to be the lot for the deaf in the 21st century. Your comments, please. Hammond Ham
 
Hammond Ham said:
Madam, I fear that you have been misinformed as to the ability for (even) babies to acquire language (any language). In our society, English is the most common mode of verbal communications while ASL (great as it may be) is self limiting and accounts for the dismal failure of academia to instill English. Test scores show that a predominant number of deaf are inadequately skilled in English, as a result, many are functionally illiterate, under or unemployable, living outside the mainstream of society. For that reason, solomente, I favor using SEE1/MSS to instill English. The deaf will acquire ASL as a matter of living in and around other deaf people. It does not HAVE to be taught, they acquire it "via osmosis" from their surroundings. From a purely "technical viewpoint", the deaf (to whatever degree) SHOULD learn English as their PRIMARY language or live forever under the control of people who would keep them "under their thumbs", having to depend on "others" to meagerly deal out their life essentials from big government, churches, social organizations, family and friends.

Sadly, the deaf have become "chattle pawns". I do not want that to be the lot for the deaf in the 21st century. Your comments, please. Hammond Ham
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There are proven results of infants learning ASL and being able to ask for the things they want as young as 6-9 months old.

Somehow, I don't think this is true either. We have quite a few deaf people on this forum who are not illiterate and also who function quite well in society, even as teachers.

That's a crock of sh*t.
 
Hammond Ham said:
OK, here is some information to assist you with SEE1 signs. Just keep in mind that there are 2, competing(?) SEE sign systems. SEE1 (Seeing Essential English/Morpheme Sign System) als David Anthony and SEE2, Signing Exact English, ala Guftason(?). SEE1 has a lot of information available at: www.amaisd.org/mss and at: Welcome to NDCLB.

Years ago, Gustafson and Anthony (originally co-authors) split. She tkk the (then) SE dictionary, calling it Signing Exact English to be used as a basis for her doctrinal thesis at Gallaudet.

Anthony (and others) expanded and further developed SEE1, now commonly called MSS, to a word vocabulary bank that rivals written and spoken English.

On line you should find the "code-breaker" and the latest information on SEE1/MSS signs,
but you need to get familiar with the code-breaker to fully understand and implement the rather extensive dictionary.

Additional information may be had by contacting Dr. Wanda Milburn at Box 634, Vega, TX 79092, where she continues to refine, develop and promulgate SEE1/MSS.

Anthony is departed the project after years of controversy and rejection. He remains a good friend and correspondent. He lives in Boulder, CO.

Hammond Ham
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thanks for the info
 
Hammond Ham said:
Madam, I fear that you have been misinformed as to the ability for (even) babies to acquire language (any language). In our society, English is the most common mode of verbal communications while ASL (great as it may be) is self limiting and accounts for the dismal failure of academia to instill English. Test scores show that a predominant number of deaf are inadequately skilled in English, as a result, many are functionally illiterate, under or unemployable, living outside the mainstream of society. For that reason, solomente, I favor using SEE1/MSS to instill English. The deaf will acquire ASL as a matter of living in and around other deaf people. It does not HAVE to be taught, they acquire it "via osmosis" from their surroundings. From a purely "technical viewpoint", the deaf (to whatever degree) SHOULD learn English as their PRIMARY language or live forever under the control of people who would keep them "under their thumbs", having to depend on "others" to meagerly deal out their life essentials from big government, churches, social organizations, family and friends.

Sadly, the deaf have become "chattle pawns". I do not want that to be the lot for the deaf in the 21st century. Your comments, please. Hammond Ham
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HH, please cite your sources. What test scores? Who says babies can't acquire language? And who says we must learn English otherwise forever have to depend upon others? ASL is not self-limiting (as you stated) as I don't appear to have had dismally failed at English. FYI, Hammond Ham, I'm a deaf person. I've been deaf since birth, and I learned sign language (ASL) as a baby. I turned out okay.
 
Hammond Ham said:
Madam, I fear that you have been misinformed as to the ability for (even) babies to acquire language (any language). In our society, English is the most common mode of verbal communications while ASL (great as it may be) is self limiting and accounts for the dismal failure of academia to instill English. Test scores show that a predominant number of deaf are inadequately skilled in English, as a result, many are functionally illiterate, under or unemployable, living outside the mainstream of society. For that reason, solomente, I favor using SEE1/MSS to instill English. The deaf will acquire ASL as a matter of living in and around other deaf people. It does not HAVE to be taught, they acquire it "via osmosis" from their surroundings. From a purely "technical viewpoint", the deaf (to whatever degree) SHOULD learn English as their PRIMARY language or live forever under the control of people who would keep them "under their thumbs", having to depend on "others" to meagerly deal out their life essentials from big government, churches, social organizations, family and friends.

Sadly, the deaf have become "chattle pawns". I do not want that to be the lot for the deaf in the 21st century. Your comments, please. Hammond Ham
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Your chauvinism is almost unbelievable, is the first comment that comes to my mind.

Did your adopted children abandon you, and that is why you are here lecturing us??

I am sure you won't be here long, but my jaw has dropped as far as is physically possible. :ugh3:
 
Hammond Ham said:
Madam, I fear that you have been misinformed as to the ability for (even) babies to acquire language (any language). In our society, English is the most common mode of verbal communications while ASL (great as it may be) is self limiting and accounts for the dismal failure of academia to instill English. Test scores show that a predominant number of deaf are inadequately skilled in English, as a result, many are functionally illiterate, under or unemployable, living outside the mainstream of society. For that reason, solomente, I favor using SEE1/MSS to instill English. The deaf will acquire ASL as a matter of living in and around other deaf people. It does not HAVE to be taught, they acquire it "via osmosis" from their surroundings. From a purely "technical viewpoint", the deaf (to whatever degree) SHOULD learn English as their PRIMARY language or live forever under the control of people who would keep them "under their thumbs", having to depend on "others" to meagerly deal out their life essentials from big government, churches, social organizations, family and friends.

Sadly, the deaf have become "chattle pawns". I d o not want that to be the lot for the deaf in the 21st century. Your comments, please. Hammond Ham
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Then pray tell..how do deaf children from Deaf parents become more fluent in English?

Your statement is completely inaccurate.

By the way, are you a deaf ed teacher or work in the field of linguistics?
 
Hammond Ham said:
Madam, I fear that you have been misinformed as to the ability for (even) babies to acquire language (any language). In our society, English is the most common mode of verbal communications while ASL (great as it may be) is self limiting and accounts for the dismal failure of academia to instill English. Test scores show that a predominant number of deaf are inadequately skilled in English, as a result, many are functionally illiterate, under or unemployable, living outside the mainstream of society. For that reason, solomente, I favor using SEE1/MSS to instill English. The deaf will acquire ASL as a matter of living in and around other deaf people. It does not HAVE to be taught, they acquire it "via osmosis" from their surroundings. From a purely "technical viewpoint", the deaf (to whatever degree) SHOULD learn English as their PRIMARY language or live forever under the control of people who would keep them "under their thumbs", having to depend on "others" to meagerly deal out their life essentials from big government, churches, social organizations, family and friends.

Sadly, the deaf have become "chattle pawns". I do not want that to be the lot for the deaf in the 21st century. Your comments, please. Hammond Ham
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You are so fucking full of shit it's coming out your ears and stinking the place up.
 
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