Should ASL be reserve to culturally Deaf people only?

Mountain Man said:
By "access" I mean ability. Deaf children have a natural access to sign language whereas they don't have a natural access to spoken languages.

And since you brought up the topic of ASL integration intthe household, my wife and I made the choice to have a bilingual household. I went to school to learn ASL and am approaching my final year in an interpreting program, my wife plans to take classes when I finish (and in the meantime I'm teaching her as much as I can), and my son is receiving language immersion at our local deaf school. We sign as much as possible at home, though I always feel it's never enough, but my son will not be outsider in his own family. We made the decision to accommodate him rather than "fixing" him to accommodate us.
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Giving a child access to language is NOT "fixing him to accommodate us". I have given my child a CI because I believe that it will give her more opportunities in the future, more choices and more tools. There is nothing wrong with my child, therefore there is nothing to fix. And it is super offensive for you to label my choice for my daughter with such inflammatory language.
 
shel90 said:
Many people dont seem to understand what "access" means. They think it is about availability but it is about understanding a language without any barriers.
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And people pretend that declaring "My child will be using ASL" will somehow place them magically into an environment that will provide fluent language models, a school for the Deaf within a reasonable distance, qualified interpreters, a vibrant Deaf community, and a family that can suddenly provide an immersive ASL environment.
 
Mountain Man said:
Oh, give me a break. There are many resources available for learning ASL. For instance, I'm going to college. I'm sure if parents looked around their cities they could find similar programs. Many social services centers for the deaf also host ASL classes, and they're usually inexpensive. Your local deaf school probably has resources. Other options are to contact local interpreting agencies and asking their recommendation. Also, make contact with your local Deaf community and start attending Deaf functions, go to a Deaf church (if one is available in your city), make some Deaf friends and invite them over to your home for the afternoon, etc.

I'm sorry, but claiming that ASL is not "accessible" to parents is BS.
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Well, where do I start?

I took a class at my local Deaf Service Center. It was not really a joke, but it was all vocabulary. We never put the words into sentences. I spent $75 to learn 150 words or so and most I already knew.

I have been working with websites, but have been told by numerous people both here on AD and at my local deaf club that that is not the way to learn ASL. Still, it is mostly vocabulary.

My local deaf club will not help anybody learn ASL. They do not have anyone willing to help a late-deafened person. They tell me they will try to help, but then when I make arrangements, they change their mind. There are approximately 15 of us that need to learn ASL and they won't help anyone.

I still have yet to find a church offering deaf services within a 40 mile radius.

The local colleges do not offer any ASL classes. The local adult education classes had ASL offered, but it seems, that out of 12 schools and 20-25 places available, I was the only one to sign up, so they cancelled and refunded my $82. I have been told, the next best thing for me is to drive back and forth to St. Augustine (6 hours or so) to go to classes at the Florida School for the Deaf and Blind. They do not have any classes in my area.

Most of my online friends who I could work with in learning ASL are not available at a time when I can use my webcam. And, no, I cannot move my computer. We live in my mother-in-law's house.

I will have to resort to books, online videos and flash cards and the once in a while trip to see an online friend for her deaf social. That trip is still a 4 hour drive one way.
 
faire_jour said:
And people pretend that declaring "My child will be using ASL" will somehow place them magically into an environment that will provide fluent language models, a school for the Deaf within a reasonable distance, qualified interpreters, a vibrant Deaf community, and a family that can suddenly provide an immersive ASL environment.
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You mean it can take a lot of time and effort to learn ASL as a family? Perish the thought.

Nobody is stuck in their present situation. If things like qualified interpreters, Deaf schools, a vibrant Deaf community, etc. are not available to you (and by "you" I mean anybody reading this and not faire_jour specifically) then consider moving to where they are available. Trying to act like CI and oral is the only option for some parents is absurd.
 
KristinaB said:
Well, where do I start?
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You said there are about 15 of you wanting to learn sign language, but you were the only one to sign up for local classes? What happened to the other 14?

Here's the other thing: Our life is often what we make of it. If what you want isn't currently available to you then you need to make some hard choices about what's important. If learning ASL is really important then you may have to move to where educational resources are available. If staying in your present life situation is more important then you will be restricted to the limited resources you already have.

It's not an easy choice, I know.
 
Mountain Man said:
I'm sorry, but claiming that ASL is not "accessible" to parents is BS.
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I'm sorry too, because that's a lot of rubbish. I'm in an extremely lucky situation to have the resources I do have at hand, so I can provide my daughter with ASL immersion at school and support at home. Most are not.

I talk with a whole lot of parents of deaf children who don't have the luxury of getting yet another degree, going to school at night or instead of working. Who don't have a spouse who can stay home all the while. It awfully elitist to think that the majority of people can do that.

You can argue that ASL is everywhere, that most children can just breathe it in all around them, but clapping your hands for Tinkerbell doesn't actually work in real life. I'm arguing that there isn't enough ASL access and more resources need to be developed. You are arguing that there's plenty, all around, no need to advocate for more. Which position is going to provide the next family with a deaf child the access he or she needs: your 'let them eat cake' attitude or taking action to say there's not enough and working towards providing more access to ASL?
 
GrendelQ said:
I'm sorry too, because that's a lot of rubbish. I'm in an extremely lucky situation to have the resources I do have at hand, so I can provide my daughter with ASL immersion at school and support at home. Most are not.

I talk with a whole lot of parents of deaf children who don't have the luxury of getting yet another degree, going to school at night or instead of working. Who don't have a spouse who can stay home all the while. It awfully elitist to think that the majority of people can do that.

You can argue that ASL is everywhere, that most children can just breathe it in all around them, but clapping your hands for Tinkerbell doesn't actually work in real life. I'm arguing that there isn't enough ASL access and more resources need to be developed. You are arguing that there's plenty, all around, no need to advocate for more. Which position is going to provide the next family with a deaf child the access he or she needs: your 'let them eat cake' attitude or taking action to say there's not enough and working towards providing more access to ASL?
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To be honest... Comparing my own mother in the 80s and now... With ASL being the 3rd most popular language being used in the nation behind spanish..... It's WIDE SPREAD. Yeah, youre in a good area for ASL..

There's bad too.. but.. Even in dead middle of Nebraska - They have ASL classes and I was able to score one of the top 10 interpreters in the state within 15 minutes of an ER visit... (damn kidney stones making me puke everywhere...)

I was able to bump into an ASL user at a bar in a town of 50 in the mountains... Where did that person learn it?

Theres the internet. Don't have high speed internet? Go to the library... (Thats what my mother did 28 years ago.)
 
Mountain Man said:
You said there are about 15 of you wanting to learn sign language, but you were the only one to sign up for local classes? What happened to the other 14?

Here's the other thing: Our life is often what we make of it. If what you want isn't currently available to you then you need to make some hard choices about what's important. If learning ASL is really important then you may have to move to where educational resources are available. If staying in your present life situation is more important then you will be restricted to the limited resources you already have.

It's not an easy choice, I know.
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I am unable to move for more than one reason. Mainly money, but also, I have a husband, 2 teenagers, my mother with a terminal illness and my MIL with her own problems. We HAD to move back here to help MIL. Learning ASL is important to me, but my family is also important. ASL cannot comfort me in times of trouble, but family can. ASL cannot put food on the table, but family can. We are living in a house that is totally paid for. Jobs here are a joke. Hubby is only able to make barely above minimum wage since there are no jobs in his field around here. He is taking a course (paid for by his mother) to learn a new trade. Some people just don't get that moving is not always an option, especially in this economy.
 
GrendelQ said:
I'm sorry too, because that's a lot of rubbish. I'm in an extremely lucky situation to have the resources I do have at hand, so I can provide my daughter with ASL immersion at school and support at home. Most are not.

I talk with a whole lot of parents of deaf children who don't have the luxury of getting yet another degree, going to school at night or instead of working. Who don't have a spouse who can stay home all the while. It awfully elitist to think that the majority of people can do that.

You can argue that ASL is everywhere, that most children can just breathe it in all around them, but clapping your hands for Tinkerbell doesn't actually work in real life. I'm arguing that there isn't enough ASL access and more resources need to be developed. You are arguing that there's plenty, all around, no need to advocate for more. Which position is going to provide the next family with a deaf child the access he or she needs: your 'let them eat cake' attitude or taking action to say there's not enough and working towards providing more access to ASL?
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Ok, but it doesnt solve the problem of deaf children not having full access to spoken language like their hearing peers do. So the problem is still there.
 
KristinaB said:
Learning ASL is important to me, but my family is also important.
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Which is why I said you need to decide what is most important and make your decisions accordingly.
KristinaB said:
Some people just don't get that moving is not always an option, especially in this economy.
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Moving is always an option. For every demand we face in our life, we have controls for dealing with them, and each control has resulting demands. If the resulting demands of moving are not acceptable to you then you make the choice not to move. Of course, the resulting demand of not moving is that your avenues for learning ASL are more limited, but they are certainly not non-existent. For example, have you considered finding a mentor, or paying someone to tutor you in ASL? And, of course, there's always the internet or books as a last resort, but those will be less effective than a live instructor.
 
Mountain Man said:
Which is why I said you need to decide what is most important and make your decisions accordingly.

Moving is always an option. For every demand we face in our life, we have controls for dealing with them, and each control has resulting demands. If the resulting demands of moving are not acceptable to you then you make the choice not to move. Of course, the resulting demand of not moving is that your avenues for learning ASL are more limited, but they are certainly not non-existent. For example, have you considered finding a mentor, or paying someone to tutor you in ASL? And, of course, there's always the internet or books as a last resort, but those will be less effective than a live instructor.
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Why is it that some people think that their way is the only "right way" and therefore think they have the right to judge and "look down" on other parents?
 
shel90 said:
Ok, but it doesnt solve the problem of deaf children not having full access to spoken language like their hearing peers do. So the problem is still there.
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What does this mean to you? Slightly less hearing in noise? That can be accommodated in many ways. No one is advocating spoken language (and actually, no one is advocating oral only at all) in children who do not have access to language well into the "normal" range.
 
faire_jour said:
Why is it that some people think that their way is the only "right way" and therefore think they have the right to judge and "look down" on other parents?
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Where in the world did you see judgement or "looking down" in that post? It isn't there at all.
 
faire_jour said:
What does this mean to you? Slightly less hearing in noise? That can be accommodated in many ways. No one is advocating spoken language (and actually, no one is advocating oral only at all) in children who do not have access to language well into the "normal" range.
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If you don't understand what not having full access to language is by this time, the chance that you will ever get it is slim to none.
 
HHIssues said:
I hope your son is at least wearing hearing aids?
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That's like the upteempth time I've seen you "suggest" something like that in that manner. It's not your place. You are not our mother or father.
 
HHIssues said:
I hope your son is at least wearing hearing aids?
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Hi there HHIssues ! Hey, no offense, but just as I think it's inappropriate for people to say "I hope your son is at least using ASL" to a person whose situation they don't know, I also think it's not for anyone else to make a statement that indicates certainty around using HAs or CIs. I don'y think any of us can presume to know what's best for a child, unless he or she is our own child.
 
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