Selective abortion.

[Oceanbreeze]

Let's say, if your mother decide to have an abortion and don't want to KEEP you --- what are you gonna say ?

If, your mother abort you, you wouldn't be here to post anything. We will never know you. You are not important.

Funny you should bring this up. My Mother was in such a position. The situation was a bit different, but not much. I was born with a hole in my spine. A condition called spina bifida. This is something that causes life long issues for the baby. Treatment includes the immediate closure of the back to prevent deadly infections. My Mother was young and didn't know what to do. Her Dr was pro-life and told her "If you don't consent to treatment for your baby and she dies, you will have murdered her..." That's an exact quote. Mom told me the story when I was nearly in my 20s. She DIDN'T know what to do. She chose to consent to surgery and here I am.

Before I go any further, let me say I am grateful for her decision. How could I not be? But, at the same time, that Dr is the REASON I am for choice today. That Dr had NO business interjecting her own agenda into the situation. My Mother was young and scared. She should have had an unbiased person helping her to decide what to do, and she didn't. I am saddened at that.

Nobody has the right to pressure a woman into making a decision; even if that decision means death to a sickly infant (either before or after birth).

 

[Tousi]

It is always difficult when I think of those who use this right as a birth control method. How does one get one's mind around that?

 

[jillio]

Funny you should bring this up. My Mother was in such a position. The situation was a bit different, but not much. I was born with a hole in my spine. A condition called spina bifida. This is something that causes life long issues for the baby. Treatment includes the immediate closure of the back to prevent deadly infections. My Mother was young and didn't know what to do. Her Dr was pro-life and told her "If you don't consent to treatment for your baby and she dies, you will have murdered her..." That's an exact quote. Mom told me the story when I was nearly in my 20s. She DIDN'T know what to do. She chose to consent to surgery and here I am.

Before I go any further, let me say I am grateful for her decision. How could I not be? But, at the same time, that Dr is the REASON I am for choice today. That Dr had NO business interjecting her own agenda into the situation. My Mother was young and scared. She should have had an unbiased person helping her to decide what to do, and she didn't. I am saddened at that.

Nobody has the right to pressure a woman into making a decision; even if that decision means death to a sickly infant (either before or after birth).

Well said, Oceanbreeze!

 

[shel90]

No one would ever know. If something did not exist, the only way to know what it would be like if it did exist is to make it up in our imagination.

But I'll ask the same question in reverse. How many lives would have been saved if Hitler's mother had chosen to abort him? What about Jeffrey Dahmer's mother, or Charles Manson's mother?

OoHHHHHH!!!!!! Good one and very good point!

 

[jillio]

It is always difficult when I think of those who use this right as a birth control method. How does one get one's mind around that?

Abortion is a last resort for most of women. The majority of first trimester abortions are done after the failure of a birth control method. Most women were taking precautions against preganancy, so it is not as it they are behaving irresponsibly and then just, without concern, have an abortion.

 

[jillio]

OoHHHHHH!!!!!! Good one and very good point!

Thank you, shel.

 

[KarissaMann05]

Jillio -

If it is a reverse question, my answer is still same if it is really happen... You never know, it is a lot of better or worse if a half of us may not be here. A half of non-existence people may be "here", and their "lives" could be much better than us or could be much worse than us. It is a same thing. Like you said, NO ONE knew what happen to those future people, "what if" things in past situations, and us.

Life is life, let it be.

I meant, for only an example, if you are trapped in a massive fire building with an unfamiliar stranger and could not get out. Another person is willing to rescuse only one way - this person personally knew this stranger and his/her life very well, but this person know so much nothing about you because s/he and you never meet each other. This person comes in and the person must make a quick desicion to choice only one optional of two; that stranger and you. The rescuser may have a little care about you or nothing at all, you never know.
Which do you really think the person will recuse this stranger or you? Now you have my point. Just like they choose wanted children over unwanted children because they don't know them very well and it is really easy to assume those unwanted children have a lousy life because they are not really valued at all... It's just like mother choose herself over her child because she don't know who this unborn child is. That is life, right? Again, it's only an example.

So, it is a life is life...

 

[KarissaMann05]

Funny you should bring this up. My Mother was in such a position. The situation was a bit different, but not much. I was born with a hole in my spine. A condition called spina bifida. This is something that causes life long issues for the baby. Treatment includes the immediate closure of the back to prevent deadly infections. My Mother was young and didn't know what to do. Her Dr was pro-life and told her "If you don't consent to treatment for your baby and she dies, you will have murdered her..." That's an exact quote. Mom told me the story when I was nearly in my 20s. She DIDN'T know what to do. She chose to consent to surgery and here I am.

That *stupid* doctor should not give your mom so hard time... If I were the doctor, I should have say:

"If you don't consent to treatment for your baby, she probably will die. But my suggestion for (a several/some optionals for treatment with great explainations and another explainations for both adoption and abortion), they may good choice for you and your baby. You can pick one of any optional or this abortion or that adoption. Be remember, it's your choice, it is the best desicion for you. There is no wrong or right. Once you decide, I will be happy to help you with your desicion."

Sorry if my comment is sound not totally neurtal and sucks, but I tried my best to stay neurtal... Yeah, I know I am not a doctor... >w<;; My point is, like you said, each doctor or consulor should be neurtal person for any woman/girl.

 

[Maria]

Yes I know what she is talking about. I only questioned her how do fetus know?

Like what Jillo said, how do mothers know their children turn into good, bad, evil, monster, etc when they become adult? How could Catholic religon mother know Hilter is a monster before and after she gave a birth to him?

Nobody knows what it look like...

Should we wait for Jiro123 to answer Maria´s question either he remember he was a fetus or not.

I am not talkin' about REMEMBER. I am talkin' about how he would FEEL in his own reality, if it were his mother who decides not to keep him.... it doesn't matter, if it wasn't for his mother - it could be ANY mother who could give birth of him. Suppose if, his mother could NOT afford or was raped by someone else or somethin' that she could not keep him for ANY reason, HOW would he FEEL about bein' aborted by his own mother ? It would MAKE him " unimportant " because he was UNLOVED and UNWANTED. Why would someone throw a fetus away ?

Don't you realize that every agency have a better access for all disabled persons ? Deaf babies could get hearing aids or CI to help learning how to speak. There are some actors who are Down's Syndrome...some of them are painists. Every child is an investment to its parents in despite of their handicapped or what ever. There's many accesible for disabled persons every where and even, tty for deaf persons, too. Hearing people can help them.

 

[Oceanbreeze]

That *stupid* doctor should not give your mom so hard time... If I were the doctor, I should have say:

"If you don't consent to treatment for your baby, she probably will die. But my suggestion for (a several/some optionals for treatment with great explainations and another explainations for both adoption and abortion), they may good choice for you and your baby. You can pick one of any optional or this abortion or that adoption. Be remember, it's your choice, it is the best desicion for you. There is no wrong or right. Once you decide, I will be happy to help you with your desicion."

Sorry if my comment is sound not totally neurtal and sucks, but I tried my best to stay neurtal... Yeah, I know I am not a doctor... >w<;; My point is, like you said, each doctor or consulor should be neurtal person for any woman/girl.

What's the difference? Saying "probably" or "will" carries the same message. "Consent or your child will (probably, ect...) die.." means the same thing and it's wrong for any doctor to impart their agenda on someone.

My Mother didn't have the option because I was already born. Hers was a choice of treatment or no treatment, and the doctor told my mother point blank she would be a murderer if she didn't consent to treatment. No matter how you say it, it's wrong to give that kind of message!

 

[Maria]

What's the difference? Saying "probably" or "will" carries the same message. "Consent or your child will (probably, ect...) die.." means the same thing and it's wrong for any doctor to impart their agenda on someone.

My Mother didn't have the option because I was already born. Hers was a choice of treatment or no treatment, and the doctor told my mother point blank she would be a murderer if she didn't consent to treatment. No matter how you say it, it's wrong to give that kind of message!

Supposely, if he didn't tell her about " murder ", would you accept your mother's decision to abort you ?

 

[KarissaMann05]

What's the difference? Saying "probably" or "will" carries the same message. "Consent or your child will (probably, ect...) die.." means the same thing and it's wrong for any doctor to impart their agenda on someone.

My Mother didn't have the option because I was already born. Hers was a choice of treatment or no treatment, and the doctor told my mother point blank she would be a murderer if she didn't consent to treatment. No matter how you say it, it's wrong to give that kind of message!

Oooh now I get it. You seems I upset you, if you are, please take my apology and forgiven me. I thought your mom were pregnant. I also want to thank you for explaination more clear. Yeah, it's better to not say "Consent or child die" comment. I'm really sorry if I upset you...

 

[Tousi]

Supposely, if he didn't tell her about " murder ", would you accept your mother's decision to abort you ?

OB wouldn't never have known and to be here to respond.

 

[Oceanbreeze]

OB wouldn't never have known and to be here to respond.

True. But, I also can honestly say this... I still support any woman's right to choose; even in a situation like mine (or my Mother's). I know what I am saying. I am saying I would support my Mother's decision to not have me treated. I also support a women's right to terminate a pregnancy; even if that woman is carrying a child with spina bifida.

Why? My life has not been easy. I spent the majority of my childhood in and out of hospitals. I've had upwards of 30 surgeries. Most of which took place in childhood. Life is what it is and what it was. I'm not complaining, but I would not subject this on another. I cannot and I will NOT; especially when I also consider that there are some very severe complications of SB. Thankfully, I was spared some of the more lethal aspects of the condition, but I also have seen others who weren't. I have a friend who is on a ventilator, because her brain stem pushed against her spinal column and depressed her respiratory drive. It's a condition called Chiari Malformation, and almost ALL people with spina bifida are born with it, but only about 30% are symptomatic of it. I have the malformation, too, but I'm not symptomatic.

This is but one condition that can go along with spina bifida. There are also alot of infections. Just three years ago, I was fighting for my life with life threatening infections. This was also NOT the first time and it probably won't be the last time I get sick.

I've thought this through many times, and I am not apologetic for what I believe is ethical for me. Someone else may feel differently and that is fine, but that "someone else" does NOT have the right to tell ME what I should or shouldn't do with a pregnancy!

 

[Oceanbreeze]

Oooh now I get it. You seems I upset you, if you are, please take my apology and forgiven me. I thought your mom were pregnant. I also want to thank you for explaination more clear. Yeah, it's better to not say "Consent or child die" comment. I'm really sorry if I upset you...

I get upset when people think they can cram their agenda down someone's throat, but I'm not upset with you.

 

[dreama]

With disabled babies and life threatening is a different story.


I respect women´s decision for not keep disabled babies or do not want to give their life up because they have feeling.

Did you know it´s a lot of work to do to take care of disabled children with therapies?

Who will cover the cost of therapies to develop disabled children with speech, learn to write and read, movement, etc? It´s okay for rich people who can afford to acheive the cost of therapies for disabled children, not poor and middle class people. Is it fair to burden poor and middle class people with expenses when NHS (British National Healthcare Service insurance) doesn´t cover everything to 100% for therapies?

It would burden the parents to take care of special need child with love and attention. One of the parents need to stay home to take care of special need child.

But you are disabled too. How can you say such a thing? I don't understand. How can disabled people want other disabled people to be discriminated against in this way. It makes me feel so sad when disabled people don't unit with other disabled people and stop this murder of children.

All children are hard work. I don't think I caused my parents that much more bother then my bother did who is not disabled. Some disabled children can give their parents far more pleasure as they don't do drugs or go into crime.

I notice the number of pro abortion ANTI BABY CHOICE people who just attack the source without even thinking. Does it hurt too much to think. Are you just that brainwashed? It makes me want to be sick.

 

[dreama]

Don't you realize that every agency have a better access for all disabled persons ? Deaf babies could get hearing aids or CI to help learning how to speak. There are some actors who are Down's Syndrome...some of them are painists. Every child is an investment to its parents in despite of their handicapped or what ever. There's many accesible for disabled persons every where and even, tty for deaf persons, too. Hearing people can help them.

Yes, I've known plenty of people with downs syndrome and I think they can be really lovely people.

Some responses I've been getting here make me feel so sad. It's like you think that killing is ok. It's like you've all been brain washed. Isn't there any way at all of making people think. Yet if you tell people of baby getting murdered after birth they want mother to get killed and very angry but only a few months earlier. A few weeks earlier and it's considered ok because it was 'the mother's choice'

The more I hear the term 'pro choice' the more I hate the very term. I hate the way in which murder can EVER be considered as anything other then Murder.

How even disabled people will think it's perfectly ok for other disabled people to get killed because of this loaded claptrap that the pro abortionists spew out.

THEY ARE NOT FOR CHOICE because a Dead baby will NEVER have ANY choices whatsoever. They are gone. Murdered.

I feel so sickened and upset by all this.

 

[dreama]

I get upset when people think they can cram their agenda down someone's throat, but I'm not upset with you.

But what about if the people are doing evil things. Surely it is right to speak out. People can say and do what they think. It's not about craming ideas. But when babies of any stage of development are routinely murdered. Surely you wouldn't want that to happen. It's NOT about choice as we are ristricting people's choices by not giving them a chance to live. There is a verse I remember:

First they came for the jews,
I did not speak out as I am not a jew

Then they came for the comminists.
I did not speak out because I am not a cominist

Then they came for me
There was no body left to speak out for me

So this is why I'm speaking out, even though it's not making me very popular but if I don't speak out and disabled people get wiped out in increasingly larger numbers. One day they might think I'm deafblind so should get knocked off. I would like to speak up on the rights of pre born disabled babies before that happens.

 

[Wokamuka]

I find it to be a greater evil in, knowingly, introducing a greatly decapitated person into society than to, unknowingly, introduce. This is an abortion issue? To me, it's a human issue. Would you throw a child, handcuffed, into the water and demand, "Sink or swim!"?

Those who parade theirselves to be "pro-life" would want a person to have that kind of life . . . handcuffed and in the water. Why? So that they have conversation fodder? Those who declare "pro-choice" would narrow their arguement upon womens' right. For me, it's a human decision: a better life would be found through those who really cared in the first place.

 

[Jiro]

oh god... I'll show my way out myself.